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Where do YOU rank Bret Hart?

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  • #16
    Re: Where do YOU rank Bret Hart?

    Originally posted by WrestlingRecap
    I hate the resilience of finishing moves used in matches. It's the worst on independents and their dependence on insane spots to just continue a match.
    I can only imagine. As much as it's cool to see insane spots matches need to be believable.
    First set of inductees for Titans: Bret Hart, Randy Savage, Shawn Michaels, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin and The Undertaker

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Where do YOU rank Bret Hart?

      Originally posted by WrestlingRecap
      I hate the resilience of finishing moves used in matches. It's the worst on independents and their dependence on insane spots to just continue a match.
      I can only imagine. As much as it's cool to see insane spots matches need to be believable.
      First set of inductees for Titans: Bret Hart, Randy Savage, Shawn Michaels, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin and The Undertaker

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Where do YOU rank Bret Hart?

        Originally posted by MV View Post
        I can only imagine. As much as it's cool to see insane spots matches need to be believable.

        I remember one time seeing a literal top rope tombstone piledriver... and the guy kicked out at two. Maybe 90 seconds later, the guy who took the spot won with an inside cradle.

        I was baffled.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Where do YOU rank Bret Hart?

          Originally posted by MV View Post
          I can only imagine. As much as it's cool to see insane spots matches need to be believable.

          I remember one time seeing a literal top rope tombstone piledriver... and the guy kicked out at two. Maybe 90 seconds later, the guy who took the spot won with an inside cradle.

          I was baffled.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Where do YOU rank Bret Hart?

            Bret is the best pro wrestler that ever lived. Nobody even comes close.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Where do YOU rank Bret Hart?

              Bret is the best pro wrestler that ever lived. Nobody even comes close.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Where do YOU rank Bret Hart?

                In my opinion, he's in the top 10 of all time in WWF history. My top ten (no particular order would be)

                Hogan
                Austin
                Rock
                Taker
                Bruno
                Bret
                Macho
                HBK
                Andre
                Cena (even though HHH could be in the top 10 too)


                For smaller guys (under 240) in WWE history, Bret is in the big three with Savage and HBK. ALL THREE at the time they were on top did great in my opinion. Savage was the biggest of them star power wise, but Bret was the BEST world champion of the three. In ring, Bret could do it all. He even had a very good-great aerial WHEN HE CHOSE to use it. Bret's bread and butter was being the ultimate technician. He would use the brawling and aerial stuff when it made the MOST SENSE. He had a shooter type element to him BUT Vince knew how to market him.

                So for all intents and purposes, Bret was the evolution to guys like Thesz, Backlund, Brisco, and Verne in the new age. Through the WWF machine, that style of wrestler lived on THROUGH Bret. And from there, guys like Angle and Benoit got shots got to be world champs down the road. So in my opinion, Bret is the FACE of technical wrestling on a worldwide level. He was on top of the biggest company in the world AND PROVED u can make it to the top by being the best in the ring.

                Bret didn't need to be a big guy or an over the top persona to make it to the top. In Vince's WWE, Bret was the FIRST to bring that to the table. HBK and Mach had flashy or over the top personas to go with their in ring ability. Bret's steady climb gained the fans respect ENOUGH to justify being a long term WWF World Champ.
                Last edited by bizil; 04-14-2017, 01:31 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Where do YOU rank Bret Hart?

                  In my opinion, he's in the top 10 of all time in WWF history. My top ten (no particular order would be)

                  Hogan
                  Austin
                  Rock
                  Taker
                  Bruno
                  Bret
                  Macho
                  HBK
                  Andre
                  Cena (even though HHH could be in the top 10 too)


                  For smaller guys (under 240) in WWE history, Bret is in the big three with Savage and HBK. ALL THREE at the time they were on top did great in my opinion. Savage was the biggest of them star power wise, but Bret was the BEST world champion of the three. In ring, Bret could do it all. He even had a very good-great aerial WHEN HE CHOSE to use it. Bret's bread and butter was being the ultimate technician. He would use the brawling and aerial stuff when it made the MOST SENSE. He had a shooter type element to him BUT Vince knew how to market him.

                  So for all intents and purposes, Bret was the evolution to guys like Thesz, Backlund, Brisco, and Verne in the new age. Through the WWF machine, that style of wrestler lived on THROUGH Bret. And from there, guys like Angle and Benoit got shots got to be world champs down the road. So in my opinion, Bret is the FACE of technical wrestling on a worldwide level. He was on top of the biggest company in the world AND PROVED u can make it to the top by being the best in the ring.

                  Bret didn't need to be a big guy or an over the top persona to make it to the top. In Vince's WWE, Bret was the FIRST to bring that to the table. HBK and Mach had flashy or over the top personas to go with their in ring ability. Bret's steady climb gained the fans respect ENOUGH to justify being a long term WWF World Champ.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Where do YOU rank Bret Hart?

                    Originally posted by WrestlingRecap
                    I remember one time seeing a literal top rope tombstone piledriver... and the guy kicked out at two. Maybe 90 seconds later, the guy who took the spot won with an inside cradle.

                    I was baffled.
                    *Chuckles*


                    Originally posted by bizil
                    In my opinion, he's in the top 10 of all time in WWF history. My top ten (no particular order would be)

                    Hogan
                    Austin
                    Rock
                    Taker
                    Bruno
                    Bret
                    Macho
                    HBK
                    Andre
                    Cena (even though HHH could be in the top 10 too)


                    For smaller guys (under 240) in WWE history, Bret is in the big three with Savage and HBK. ALL THREE at the time they were on top did great in my opinion. Savage was the biggest of them star power wise, but Bret was the BEST world champion of the three. In ring, Bret could do it all. He even had a very good-great aerial WHEN HE CHOSE to use it. Bret's bread and butter was being the ultimate technician. He would use the brawling and aerial stuff when it made the MOST SENSE. He had a shooter type element to him BUT Vince knew how to market him.

                    So for all intents and purposes, Bret was the evolution to guys like Thesz, Backlund, Brisco, and Verne in the new age. Through the WWF machine, that style of wrestler lived on THROUGH Bret. And from there, guys like Angle and Benoit got shots got to be world champs down the road. So in my opinion, Bret is the FACE of technical wrestling on a worldwide level. He was on top of the biggest company in the world AND PROVED u can make it to the top by being the best in the ring.

                    Bret didn't need to be a big guy or an over the top persona to make it to the top. In Vince's WWE, Bret was the FIRST to bring that to the table. HBK and Mach had flashy or over the top personas to go with their in ring ability. Bret's steady climb gained the fans respect ENOUGH to justify being a long term WWF World Champ.
                    Great explanation!
                    First set of inductees for Titans: Bret Hart, Randy Savage, Shawn Michaels, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin and The Undertaker

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Where do YOU rank Bret Hart?

                      Originally posted by WrestlingRecap
                      I remember one time seeing a literal top rope tombstone piledriver... and the guy kicked out at two. Maybe 90 seconds later, the guy who took the spot won with an inside cradle.

                      I was baffled.
                      *Chuckles*


                      Originally posted by bizil
                      In my opinion, he's in the top 10 of all time in WWF history. My top ten (no particular order would be)

                      Hogan
                      Austin
                      Rock
                      Taker
                      Bruno
                      Bret
                      Macho
                      HBK
                      Andre
                      Cena (even though HHH could be in the top 10 too)


                      For smaller guys (under 240) in WWE history, Bret is in the big three with Savage and HBK. ALL THREE at the time they were on top did great in my opinion. Savage was the biggest of them star power wise, but Bret was the BEST world champion of the three. In ring, Bret could do it all. He even had a very good-great aerial WHEN HE CHOSE to use it. Bret's bread and butter was being the ultimate technician. He would use the brawling and aerial stuff when it made the MOST SENSE. He had a shooter type element to him BUT Vince knew how to market him.

                      So for all intents and purposes, Bret was the evolution to guys like Thesz, Backlund, Brisco, and Verne in the new age. Through the WWF machine, that style of wrestler lived on THROUGH Bret. And from there, guys like Angle and Benoit got shots got to be world champs down the road. So in my opinion, Bret is the FACE of technical wrestling on a worldwide level. He was on top of the biggest company in the world AND PROVED u can make it to the top by being the best in the ring.

                      Bret didn't need to be a big guy or an over the top persona to make it to the top. In Vince's WWE, Bret was the FIRST to bring that to the table. HBK and Mach had flashy or over the top personas to go with their in ring ability. Bret's steady climb gained the fans respect ENOUGH to justify being a long term WWF World Champ.
                      Great explanation!
                      First set of inductees for Titans: Bret Hart, Randy Savage, Shawn Michaels, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin and The Undertaker

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Where do YOU rank Bret Hart?

                        He was a truly great worker. Another big plus for him was his ability to draw internationally.

                        When you're looking at where he ranks in history? As a worker he's up there with pretty much anybody. As a draw he isn't, he spearheaded the product at a time when fans were rejecting it.

                        He did move the industry on in terms of his style and workrate but was it what people wanted? History tells you fans wanted something different. I'm unsure also of his influence on modern wrestlers.

                        A difficult guy to place.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Where do YOU rank Bret Hart?

                          He was a truly great worker. Another big plus for him was his ability to draw internationally.

                          When you're looking at where he ranks in history? As a worker he's up there with pretty much anybody. As a draw he isn't, he spearheaded the product at a time when fans were rejecting it.

                          He did move the industry on in terms of his style and workrate but was it what people wanted? History tells you fans wanted something different. I'm unsure also of his influence on modern wrestlers.

                          A difficult guy to place.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Where do YOU rank Bret Hart?

                            Originally posted by Todd View Post
                            He was a truly great worker. Another big plus for him was his ability to draw internationally.

                            When you're looking at where he ranks in history? As a worker he's up there with pretty much anybody. As a draw he isn't, he spearheaded the product at a time when fans were rejecting it.

                            He did move the industry on in terms of his style and workrate but was it what people wanted? History tells you fans wanted something different. I'm unsure also of his influence on modern wrestlers.

                            A difficult guy to place.
                            I agree! Bret's overall resume is legendary. He's in the top ten of all time in WWF. In ring wise, he's obviously GOAT caliber. He parlayed that ability to be a multiple time WWF champ. HOWEVER, u have guys who draw in the mainstream audience. Guys who have so much charisma that its easier for casuals to get into them. So in that realm, he's not on the level of Rock, Hogan, Austin, Andre, etc. From there, I feel Flair and Savage were better TOTAL PACKAGES than Bret. They had the perfect blend of in ring ability, charisma, mic skills, and look. I compare Bret to those two often BECAUSE size wise they weren't the biggest guys.

                            I think Bret's legacy is being Vince's GOLD STANDARD technician. Bret is the FACE of technical wrestling in the WWE. BUT he didn't have the star power to DOMINATE a company and be a mainstream draw. In Vince's WWF, he's ALWAYS looking for that. By old school NWA World Champ standards, Bret would have been a prototype guy to hold the belt. Because they wanted the best in ring guys who got over ENOUGH to justify being a world champ. So in that realm, the guys like Bret, HBK, Jericho, Benoit, Eddie G, Angle, and Hennig would have been what they were looking for.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Where do YOU rank Bret Hart?

                              Originally posted by Todd View Post
                              He was a truly great worker. Another big plus for him was his ability to draw internationally.

                              When you're looking at where he ranks in history? As a worker he's up there with pretty much anybody. As a draw he isn't, he spearheaded the product at a time when fans were rejecting it.

                              He did move the industry on in terms of his style and workrate but was it what people wanted? History tells you fans wanted something different. I'm unsure also of his influence on modern wrestlers.

                              A difficult guy to place.
                              I agree! Bret's overall resume is legendary. He's in the top ten of all time in WWF. In ring wise, he's obviously GOAT caliber. He parlayed that ability to be a multiple time WWF champ. HOWEVER, u have guys who draw in the mainstream audience. Guys who have so much charisma that its easier for casuals to get into them. So in that realm, he's not on the level of Rock, Hogan, Austin, Andre, etc. From there, I feel Flair and Savage were better TOTAL PACKAGES than Bret. They had the perfect blend of in ring ability, charisma, mic skills, and look. I compare Bret to those two often BECAUSE size wise they weren't the biggest guys.

                              I think Bret's legacy is being Vince's GOLD STANDARD technician. Bret is the FACE of technical wrestling in the WWE. BUT he didn't have the star power to DOMINATE a company and be a mainstream draw. In Vince's WWF, he's ALWAYS looking for that. By old school NWA World Champ standards, Bret would have been a prototype guy to hold the belt. Because they wanted the best in ring guys who got over ENOUGH to justify being a world champ. So in that realm, the guys like Bret, HBK, Jericho, Benoit, Eddie G, Angle, and Hennig would have been what they were looking for.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Where do YOU rank Bret Hart?

                                Bret (along with 'Taker) were the best draws during a dead period for the WWF. The dead period wasn't their fault, those were the cards they were dealt post-Hogan. Now 'Taker got to enjoy the turnaround because he was eight years younger than Bret, who had just turned 40 for his last WWF Title run in 1997. That's not to say, Bret would have transformed into some upper tier draw, because he clearly wouldn't have, but he's getting penalized for things that are completely out of his control, like his birth date, or being signed to the WWF when it was still the land of giants. The fact is, when the WWF was hurting, Bret drew more money for Vince than anybody. Vince tried other people in the ace babyface role (Nash, Michaels, and briefly Luger), and Vince had to turn back to Bret each time, because they drew significantly less than him. Bret is a better draw than he gets credit for because he did it in a much smaller pool than Rock & Wrestling, Attitude Era, and the current Monopoly Era. He wasn't a top tier draw, but neither is anybody in the last 15 years. Those guys are rare.

                                $

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