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Who was the worst US president.

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  • #31
    Re: Who was the worst US president.

    Originally posted by Brokenlamp View Post
    Obama has been an overwhelming success from my perspective. He inherited a mess and is on track to leave the country in better shape than when he got it. He's been enormously handicapped by partisanship though, in a way that is historically unique. So perhaps he will go down as the "what might have been" president.

    To me, Obama is just a different shade of Bush II. No fiscal responsiblity whatsoever, expansion of executive power, no respect for the Constitution. Throw in the recent scandals and Obama is just outside of the top 5 worst(20th century and up of course)presidents, especially the way his second term is going. Not to mention the fact that Eric Holder still has a friggin job.

    Obama is basically Arnold to Bush's Gray Davis.
    Last edited by The Real LT; 06-07-2013, 06:45 AM.

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    • #32
      Re: Who was the worst US president.

      With today's revaluation of the Feds forcing Verizon to hand over data on all of their customers, I'm damn close to putting President Obama in my top five. I've never thought he's been all that great considering much of what he's credited for wasn't really him.

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      • #33
        Re: Who was the worst US president.

        Originally posted by Werehunter View Post
        With today's revaluation of the Feds forcing Verizon to hand over data on all of their customers, I'm damn close to putting President Obama in my top five. I've never thought he's been all that great considering much of what he's credited for wasn't really him.
        People often dont realize how little control presidents actually have over agencies like the CIA, NSA, etc. They do what they want, and they dont ask for permission. They have an utter disdain for elected officials, (especially democrats). Its also true most of our generals who are constantly in the president's ears trying to start the next war. Honestly, the best thing about Obama's presidency so far has been what he has NOT done: ignoring the constant calls for war with Iran/Syria, despite the incessant war drum being beaten in his private meetings every day.

        That said, putting these revelations into historical context quickly makes them look fairly trivial. Especially when you remember who signed the patriot act to begin with.
        Do you remember lying in bed?
        With your covers pulled up over your head?

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        • #34
          Re: Who was the worst US president.

          As I said in a previous thread, what troubles me about Obama is his presentation. He's doing much of what Bush started and in some cases more so, but he puts a better face on it all. So, now you have liberals that were previously queasy about war and supported civil liberties acquiescing on those issues because it's Obama.

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          • #35
            Re: Who was the worst US president.

            Originally posted by Brokenlamp View Post
            I

            Obama has been an overwhelming success from my perspective. He inherited a mess and is on track to leave the country in better shape than when he got it. He's been enormously handicapped by partisanship though, in a way that is historically unique. So perhaps he will go down as the "what might have been" president.
            You mean the guy who less than one year into his second term has had more scandals than any other president? Some (like Benghazi) began in his first term but he hid in order to get a term 2? The man is not only a terrible president but makes Nixon look legit at this point! How can anyone defend him?

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            • #36
              Re: Who was the worst US president.

              Originally posted by merle View Post
              You mean the guy who less than one year into his second term has had more scandals than any other president? Some (like Benghazi) began in his first term but he hid in order to get a term 2? The man is not only a terrible president but makes Nixon look legit at this point! How can anyone defend him?
              The definition of the word "scandal" in a political context is pretty fluid. Everything the party in power does is a scandal to the party out of power, because its easier to win with scandals than on substance. Of course, I would argue that these "scandals" are very obviously manufactured, and for the most part the american public have agreed with me. Because its just so obvious to anyone who is objectively looking at them that they are. Perhaps you can remember back 5 years ago to the Bush years when everything he did and every mistake he made was evidence of some kind of scandal. Thats just the way the game is played these days because people are thought to be easily manipulated (though I think the evidence is starting to mount that we are slightly more clever than they give us credit for).
              The only "scandal" that has actually affected the president in the eyes of moderates has been his defense of the NSA/Prism. (And this is of course an inherited scandal, and also directly related to the security of the president's own person, since he is the most frequent plot target).
              Do you remember lying in bed?
              With your covers pulled up over your head?

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              • #37
                Re: Who was the worst US president.

                Woodrow Wilson is my go to, just because he shockingly ends up Top 10 Best on a lot of polls. Guys like Harding, Buchanan, Johnson, Hoover, have no supporters. Everybody knows they're awful. So lets keep saying Wilson so he eventually ends up in that company. I think as a fake progressive, he fooled some actual progressives into thinking he did good things, but also, because he's a fake progressive, he did a lot of things that conservatives agree with too, so you have people on both sides voting for him in these polls, which few presidents get, outside of Lincoln. So he gets a bloated historical ranking even though he was unquestionably fucking terrible, and generally, an enormous piece of dogshit.
                Last edited by Kilgore; 06-18-2013, 03:18 PM.

                $

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                • #38
                  Re: Who was the worst US president.

                  Originally posted by Kilgore View Post
                  Woodrow Wilson is my go to, just because he shockingly ends up Top 10 Best on a lot of polls. Guys like Harding, Buchanan, Johnson, Hoover, have no supporters. Everybody knows they're awful. So lets keep saying Wilson so he eventually ends up in that company. I think as a fake progressive, he fooled some actual progressives into thinking he did good things, but also, because he's a fake progressive, he did a lot of things that conservatives agree with too, so you have people on both sides voting for him in these polls, which few presidents get, outside of Lincoln. So he gets a bloated historical ranking even though he was unquestionably fucking terrible, and generally, an enormous piece of dogshit.
                  Along with Lyndon Johnson, Woodrow Wilson is one of those presidents I will NEVER understand how they are rated so highly. Kennedy was (and still is) also highly overrated.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Who was the worst US president.

                    Alot of presidential historians are very traditional. If you only read Wilson's speeches (14 Points, especially) and ignored his contradictory actions you could easily come to the same conclusions. Theres also a bit of historical relativism involved where historians try not to judge people by modern morality (in Wilson's case in regards to his racism). He also gets extra points for being a wartime president, though in my opinion that was where he demonstrated his greatest failure. And I think that "making the world safe for democracy", which was an essential component of liberal interventionism is rapidly losing its modern appeal in light of the utter failure to democratize nations with incompatible cultures.

                    Lyndon Johnson was an insufferable prick-ass. And it was his desire to prove to the republican hawks that he wasnt a hippy pansy that led to our escalation in Vietnam. But his Great Society programs are objectively successful by every historical/economic indicator (even as the Boomer generation who stands to benefit the most from these programs tries to convince younger generations that we can no longer afford them).
                    Do you remember lying in bed?
                    With your covers pulled up over your head?

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                    • #40
                      Re: Who was the worst US president.

                      Originally posted by Brokenlamp View Post
                      Obama has been an overwhelming success from my perspective. He inherited a mess and is on track to leave the country in better shape than when he got it. He's been enormously handicapped by partisanship though, in a way that is historically unique. So perhaps he will go down as the "what might have been" president.
                      I just don't see how anyone could consider Obama to be an overwhelming success at this point. This is coming from someone who voted him and realized he couldn't to live up to the hype but assumed he could get us moving in the right direction at the very least on social issues. Aside from good decisions involving gay rights I really can't think of anything significant he's done socially. I mean he did help our standing in the world until of course the recent NSA scandal. But aside from that you have Benghazi, drone strikes, continued wars. It sometimes doesn't seem like we elected a new leader considering the continuation of Bush's terrible fiscal policies and his immoral "anti-terrorism" policies.

                      Added to that the Affordable Care Act already costing people jobs while and costing more than it's worth, all the while not doing much in the way of providing, you know, affordable healthcare. If politicians really cared about healthcare they would get rid of Medicaid and use the funds to implement a government subsidized health insurance plan. I mean if the people who say they want affordable healthcare and not free healthcare really mean it. You could still have exceptions for people who are in serious financial need but free unlimited healthcare for some people, while people who make slightly too much to qualify, and thusly have to pay out the ass for insurance or doctors bills is ridiculous.

                      Keep in mind this is coming from someone who voted for the man, twice. I guess it shows the variety of our political options when I don't have to hold my nose quite as long when I voted for him as I did when considering the other guys.
                      Last edited by William; 06-25-2013, 05:27 PM.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Who was the worst US president.

                        In comparison with other presidencies. So, from a historical perspective, or a historical standard, the Obama presidency has been very successful. The primary measurement should be: "is the country better off then when his presidency began." And perhaps we all have short memories... but the mess Obama inherited was bad at a level only seen by a handful of previous presidents. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened had Obama actually had a progressive super-majority in the Senate for longer than 6 months (from the time Al Franken was confirmed to the time Kennedy died.)
                        Do you remember lying in bed?
                        With your covers pulled up over your head?

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                        • #42
                          Re: Who was the worst US president.

                          Originally posted by Brokenlamp View Post
                          In comparison with other presidencies. So, from a historical perspective, or a historical standard, the Obama presidency has been very successful. The primary measurement should be: "is the country better off then when his presidency began." And perhaps we all have short memories... but the mess Obama inherited was bad at a level only seen by a handful of previous presidents. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened had Obama actually had a progressive super-majority in the Senate for longer than 6 months (from the time Al Franken was confirmed to the time Kennedy died.)
                          If the President was king(no he'd actually have to be god) then you could make that argument. But it's also completely possible, since as you said earlier about the NSA, people don't realize what the president actually has control over, that the economy would get better no matter who was in office. I'm sorry but Ronald Reagan was very full of shit when he made that quote famous.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Who was the worst US president.

                            Originally posted by Brokenlamp View Post
                            In comparison with other presidencies. So, from a historical perspective, or a historical standard, the Obama presidency has been very successful. The primary measurement should be: "is the country better off then when his presidency began." And perhaps we all have short memories... but the mess Obama inherited was bad at a level only seen by a handful of previous presidents. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened had Obama actually had a progressive super-majority in the Senate for longer than 6 months (from the time Al Franken was confirmed to the time Kennedy died.)
                            The country isn't better off, that's the entire point. Obama may have inherited a mess but his administration has done nothing to solve it and in some areas has actually made it WORSE.

                            Obama is Arnold Schwartzenegger to Bush's Gray Davis.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Who was the worst US president.

                              Mind is blown that anybody would consider Obama a success or even a good president. He's a far cry from worst ever or Hitler as someone on here likes to liken him to but still it hasn't been pretty. I wanted to buy into his bull shit during the first election but in the end he turned out to be just another puppet.

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                              • #45
                                Re: Who was the worst US president.

                                Originally posted by vendrell View Post
                                Mind is blown that anybody would consider Obama a success or even a good president. He's a far cry from worst ever or Hitler as someone on here likes to liken him to but still it hasn't been pretty. I wanted to buy into his bull shit during the first election but in the end he turned out to be just another puppet.
                                Puppet. I actually believe he is just a figurehead. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid have their hands so far up his ass, they might as well be Jeff Dunham!

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