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Thread: WI General Discussion

  1. #26
    Is just 2 sweet Razor_Blade's Avatar

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    Default Re: WI General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaysa
    Could you be more specific when you mean "the people". Do you mean our elite, or middle class? What? And how would this do anything?
    I mean the people in the white house.. In otherwords the the U.S. Government. It should buy up stocks and shares in in big american companies to ensure that they will not flag out to other countries.

    Norway has allready done stuff like this (See the ormen lange/gas to the UK thingy that airs now and then on Discovery Channel.) The Norwegian state owns as much as 64% of the share holding in StatoilHydro wich is/will be the biggest offshore oil and gas company in the world.

  2. #27
    Moderately Moderating Michinokudriver's Avatar

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    Default Re: WI General Discussion

    I almost never label anything "communist" but the government buying up controlling shares of businesses in the private sector runs pretty close to me.

    I can't see Americans going for it.

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  3. #28
    Spoutnik
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    Default Re: WI General Discussion

    ^Bah, it wouldn't help America's case anyway. Communism has been proven as a failure anyway, so it's not even an option. Plus, USA's territory isn't giving enough natural ressources such as oil, steel or wood. Therefore, there's an obligation for United States to open the borders and deal with other countries.

  4. #29
    Moderately Moderating Michinokudriver's Avatar

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    Default Re: WI General Discussion

    http://sciencemode.com/2007/09/11/al...erent-objects/

    Alex the African Grey Parrot Dies at 31, Brain Of 5 Year-Old Child
    Alex, the world renowned African Grey parrot made famous by the ground-breaking cognition and communication research conducted by Brandeis scientist Irene Pepperberg, Ph.D., died at the age of 31 on September 6, 2007.


    Dr. Pepperberg’s pioneering research resulted in Alex learning elements of English speech to identify 50 different objects, 7 colors, 5 shapes, quantities up to and including 6 and a zero-like concept.

    He used phrases such as “I want X” and “Wanna go Y”, where X and Y were appropriate object and location labels. He acquired concepts of categories, bigger and smaller, same-different, and absence.

    Alex combined his labels to identify, request, refuse, and categorize more than 100 different items demonstrating a level and scope of cognitive abilities never expected in an avian species. Pepperberg says that Alex showed the emotional equivalent of a 2 year-old child and intellectual equivalent of a 5 year-old.

    Her research with Alex shattered the generally held notion that parrots are only capable of mindless vocal mimicry. In 1973, Dr. Pepperberg was working on her doctoral thesis in theoretical chemistry at Harvard University when she watched Nova programs on signing chimps, dolphin communication and, most notably, on why birds sing.

    She realized that the fields of avian cognition and communication were not only of personal interest to her but relatively uncharted territory. When she finished her thesis, she left the field of chemistry to pursue a new direction—to explore the avian brain. She decided to conduct her research with an African Grey parrot.

    In order to assure she was working with a bird representative of its species, she asked the shop owner to randomly choose any African Grey from his collection.

    It was Alex. And so the one-year old Alex, his name an acronym for the research project, Avian Learning EXperiment, became an integral part of Pepperberg’s life and the pioneering studies she was about to embark upon.

    Over the course of 30 years of research, Dr. Pepperberg and Alex revolutionized the notions of how birds think and communicate. What Alex taught Dr.

    Pepperberg about cognition and communication has been applied to therapies to help children with learning disabilities.

    Alex’s learning process is based on the rival-model technique in which two humans demonstrate to the bird what is to be learned. Dr. Pepperberg will continue her innovative research program with Griffin and Arthur, two other young African Grey parrots who have been a part of the ongoing research program.

    Alex has left a significant legacy—not only have he and Dr. Pepperberg and their landmark experiments in modern comparative psychology changed our views of the capabilities of avian minds, but they have forever changed our perception of the term “bird brains.”

    source: Brandeis University.

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  5. #30
    Mr Tater Salad
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    Default Re: WI General Discussion

    Topic:
    I just wanted to know and get a discussion going on people's thoughts of federal education and its powers versus local control; as well as debate the idea of eliminating federal education altogether.

    I am personally for full local control over schools. That means that the federal government relinquishes all control over the public school systems of this country and moves all of its powers and spending back over to states and most importantly, local school districts. Over the years federal education and education spending on the federal level has gotten us nothing more then failing results, difficult and sometimes unachievable standards, bloated bureaucracies that oversee ineffective programs (like NCLB Act) and have ballooned our national budget only adding at times to a deficit. Schools are no doubt best run when local people, who know what is best for their area and situation, run and over see schools. When money can be spent on what is need most in a district or state as opposed to meeting tooth and nail some pretentious or ridiculous federal guidelines. Ronald Reagan was 100% right about eliminating the Department of Education. Eliminating that department is truly the only way to raise standards of schools and fully return local control to all the states and school districts of America.

    Credit-Cat Institute...cato.org

    Elimination Lost: What happened to abolishing the Department of Education?

    by Veronique de Rugy & Marie Gryphon

    February 11, 2004

    Veronique De Rugy is a fiscal-policy analyst and Marie Gryphon is an education-policy analyst with the Cato Institute.

    Massive political realignments are often underreported because political insiders have no incentive to discuss them. When one political party co-opts a policy supported by the other, the outmaneuvered party can't acknowledge that its opponents are doing what it has pledged to do for years. The ascendant party gags disappointed loyalists by promising that any political capital gained will be spent on their causes. But that promise is rarely kept.

    Witness the realignment dynamic in George W. Bush's education policy.

    As recently as 1996, the Republican party sought to abolish the Department of Education as an inappropriate intrusion into state, local and family affairs. The GOP platform that year was clear: "The Federal government has no constitutional authority to be involved in school curricula or to control jobs in the market place. This is why we will abolish the Department of Education."

    While the Republican congresses of the mid-1990s are most famous for their efforts to eliminate the department, their goal was not a new one. Conservatives had talked about eliminating the department since its creation by President Carter. President Reagan made a campaign pledge to eliminate it, and renewed his promise in his first State of the Union address in January 1982: "The budget plan I submit to you on Feb. 8 will realize major savings by dismantling the Department of Education."

    Unfortunately, President Reagan was unable to achieve his goal because of solid opposition by the Democratic House. President Bush has done far worse, and with far less excuse. In his State of the Union address last month, the president touted huge federal education-spending increases — the largest under any president since Lyndon B. Johnson — as an accomplishment of his presidency.

    Not that education spending has been out of line with other current White House policies. President Bush and the Republican-controlled Congress have increased total federal spending by at least $533 billion in just three years. This fiscally irresponsible pattern is set by the White House, which often requests spending increases but seldom proposes offsetting cuts. Today, Republicans do not talk about eliminating individual programs, much less entire agencies.

    The Department of Education itself has grown by 69.6 percent between 2002 and 2004: from $46,282 million in FY2002 to $60,600 million in FY2004. This is a remarkable increase from a party so recently committed to devolving control over education — and the silence of loyalists on this issue is still more remarkable.

    The No Child Left Behind Act has made federal education-spending increases a domestic priority. Conservatives claim that runaway spending is the political price of an important reform effort. But we have seen billions spent and little reform to show for it.

    The centerpiece of the act, the part for which all the money was supposedly paid, are the provisions that demand alternative educational opportunities for children trapped in failing schools. If the Act had indeed secured their escape, it might have been a fair ransom.

    But the private-school-choice provisions of the act, which would have provided families with real power, were a casualty of political compromise. And the so-called "public-school choice" components have been eviscerated or ignored with impunity by state bureaucracies. In Chicago last year, for example, about 3,000 transfer slots were offered to the 125,000 children trapped in Chicago's failing schools. Moreover, the transfers were to schools only marginally better than the failing ones.

    Shoved further to the left by the president's remarkable spendthriftiness on the department, Democrats now complain that the increases should be larger. Though unprecedented in scope, the budget remains smaller than promised, opponents claim, in a deal that should make Senator Edward Kennedy proud.

    Thus, the education debate this election year is not whether the federal government should be micromanaging K-12 at unprecedented expense and with dubious results, but whether or not doubling the federal role in less than a decade is good enough. This is a coup for Democrats on par with Republicans' welfare reform victory of 1996.

    Just as British Prime Minister Tony Blair achieved Labor hegemony through policies virtually indistinguishable from those of his opponents, the Bush administration now seeks to solidify Republican control by promoting policies — unconstitutional, to boot — that should make their loyalists blush.

    Small government conservatives should carefully separate the political victories of this administration from its actual victories. In federal education policy, they have suffered a defeat.

    This article originally appeared in NRO on February 11, 2004.

  6. #31
    Moderately Moderating Michinokudriver's Avatar

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    Default Re: WI General Discussion

    But if you eliminate the DoE, aren't you also eliminating federal standards?

    So, education quality among different states could vary wildly, as a state with high income levels and high taxes would have more money per student than a poorer state. A high school degree from one area would be worth substantially less than a degree from another area.

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  7. #32
    Mr Tater Salad
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    Default Re: WI General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Michinokudriver
    But if you eliminate the DoE, aren't you also eliminating federal standards?

    So, education quality among different states could vary wildly, as a state with high income levels and high taxes would have more money per student than a poorer state. A high school degree from one area would be worth substantially less than a degree from another area.
    Weather you break it down on a city basis with cities like Detroit, D.C. or Atlanta or go on a state basis with poorer states like Arkansas, Mississippi and Georgia, there is a clear gap between the quality of education. A clear gap that has existed throughout the 20 plus years of federal service from the DOE. So if it were to be eliminate, would there really be any substantial change?
    The federal Department of Education has been round for over 20 years now and Detroit, Atlanta, D.C....Georiga, Mississippi, Arkansas, etc... schools haven't even gotten marginally better in a lot of areas; like graduation rates of high schoolers. When you keep bureaucrats around all you do is add a layer of red tape to cut through and waste money that could be spent elsewhere; and their is already enough of that on the state level.

    As far as funding goes, I feel that is something that should be fixed and tinkered with by the states. They can decide best where the money needs to go and where the money should and shouldn't be going. Add onto that, I have never truly bought into the argument of inequality of funds is something that drastically affects how a school district does. The reason most public schools fail has little to do with money and more to do with bureaucracies refusing to make change to keep themselves in power (see Detroit as a prime example), the standards the school system sets (which are low and far from rigorous) and the home life of students. Taking from the "haves" or richer suburbanites (on a federal level certainly) just to provide equal funding across the board for schools isn't going to work. It's more of how the money is spent and what it is spent on rather then how much is spent. Local districts can always make that choice better in any area as they no what is and isn't need specific to their are.

  8. #33
    #throwback mikec's Avatar

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    Default Re: WI General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Tater Salad
    As far as funding goes, I feel that is something that should be fixed and tinkered with by the states. They can decide best where the money needs to go and where the money should and shouldn't be going. Add onto that, I have never truly bought into the argument of inequality of funds is something that drastically affects how a school district does. The reason most public schools fail has little to do with money and more to do with bureaucracies refusing to make change to keep themselves in power (see Detroit as a prime example), the standards the school system sets (which are low and far from rigorous) and the home life of students. Taking from the "haves" or richer suburbanites (on a federal level certainly) just to provide equal funding across the board for schools isn't going to work. It's more of how the money is spent and what it is spent on rather then how much is spent. Local districts can always make that choice better in any area as they no what is and isn't need specific to their are.
    I don't see how anyone can honestly believe that a poor school district and a rich school district can provide the same quality of education to all of their students. Quality teachers, the best technology, current textbooks, extra curricular activities (and I don't just mean sports), etc. are all tools that schools can utilize to provide a better education, and only some schools get to provide them, depending on how wealthy the people that live around them are.

    Less money for poorer schools strengthens the bureaucracy, if only to give them something to complain about and it is ridiculously unfair to the student without any reason to be.

    But I am interested, at the point there's no federal oversight, how do localities avoid bureaucracies that set their schools up to increase their power the way you describe it?

  9. #34
    Mr Tater Salad
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    Default Re: WI General Discussion

    Education is like buying a new car when it comes to the finances. On one hand you have the Beverley Hills (or expensive the Mercedes Benz) of educations. This, from outside appearances looks slick and shiny with its brand new Dell Computers, its yearly updated text books and its giant buildings with slate roofs and granite floors. Above all though, this Mercedes Benz of education still gets the job done, taking you from point A to point B; meaning from K through 12 it turns out educated students able to function and preform with everyone else in their grade. On the other hand you have Detroit (or moderately priced the Ford Focus) of educations. This, from the outside doesn't have that slick look, it won't make you envious nor will it make you want to have it right now. However, it can still take you from point A to point B, it still runs fine, has a clean inside and can do all the basics a car can do like start-up, stop, reverse, etc... just like the Benz. Sure, your not going to have brand new text books every year here, nor spanking new Dells with wireless computers. You might have to use text books that are a few years old and computers that may date back 4 or 5 years. But in the end, if properly cared for and maintained like the Mercedes, this Focus can go from point A to B; meaning of course, that it too can turn out educated children year after year, from grades K through 12.

    What Detroit spends per child as of 2006:
    $7259
    Source


    What Wayne County Spends on Average per student (Wayne is the county Detroit resides in):
    $9,140
    Source

    That's not even a $2,000 gap in funding between Detroit and the rest of Wayne County.

    Is technology a beneficial tool in today's age to educating children, yes it is. Is it a must have tool in today's age for getting a quality education, no it isn't. And it isn't because children were being educated for many, many years more then fine without the technologies of today. Does it maybe put some limitations on students if they don't have the best technology, it probably does. However, it puts no more limitations on the students, in fact less, then the non-rigorousness standards and federal programs and standards currently in place now.

    I think money should be dolled out on a more even playing field, but that is something the states must decide. Why, because when the states decide that as opposed to the federal government they know what is needed where for each city. Adding onto to that, putting the federal government in charge of regulating fairness in education funds only adds to inevitable delays in funds getting to schools, time frames decisions being made on what schools get how much and off course the ever so thick layer of bureaucracy only gets thicker.

    Less money for poorer schools doesn't strength bureaucracy as it doesn't add any government jobs to the school district payroll. It gives parents and current school administrators a lobbying tool and an excuse for their own failures when it comes to the standards they have set and applied in their community schools. Taking away the Federal DOE would cause them to have to examine themselves and their practices and review and hopefully change the standards they have set.
    Last edited by Mr Tater Salad; 10-13-2007 at 11:55 PM.

  10. #35
    Moderately Moderating Michinokudriver's Avatar

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    Default Re: WI General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Tater Salad
    Education is like buying a new car when it comes to the finances. On one hand you have the Beverley Hills (or expensive the Mercedes Benz) of educations. This, from outside appearances looks slick and shiny with its brand new Dell Computers, its yearly updated text books and its giant buildings with slate roofs and granite floors. Above all though, this Mercedes Benz of education still gets the job done, taking you from point A to point B; meaning from K through 12 it turns out educated students able to function and preform with everyone else in their grade. On the other hand you have Detroit (or moderately priced the Ford Focus) of educations. This, from the outside doesn't have that slick look, it won't make you envious nor will it make you want to have it right now. However, it can still take you from point A to point B, it still runs fine, has a clean inside and can do all the basics a car can do like start-up, stop, reverse, etc... just like the Benz. Sure, your not going to have brand new text books every year here, nor spanking new Dells with wireless computers. You might have to use text books that are a few years old and computers that may date back 4 or 5 years. But in the end, if properly cared for and maintained like the Mercedes, this Focus can go from point A to B; meaning of course, that it too can turn out educated children year after year, from grades K through 12.
    I understand what you're saying, but disagree with the conclusion.

    Let's take two different cars -- say, a Honda Accord and a Ford Taurus.

    On the surface, the two have the same purpose -- to drive from one point to the other.

    However, underneath the hood, more money spent on technology refined the Honda to garner better fuel efficency.

    More money spent on higher quality materials for the interior removes squeaks and rattles.

    More money spent on a better stereo system makes it sound better.

    Although both serve the same function, because of the money put into the development of the cars, one developed a better reputation and can command a premium compared to the other.

    Or, put in education terms, the more money spent will generally pay off in terms of a degree from one school being more prestigious than another school.

    <Insert Ivy League college here> will generally be more prestigious than <Insert State College here> not necessarily because of the money, but because of what the money can do for the students -- buy away top-level teachers, better research facilities, etc.
    What Detroit spends per child as of 2006:
    $7259
    Source


    What Wayne County Spends on Average per student (Wayne is the county Detroit resides in):
    $9,140
    Source

    That's not even a $2,000 gap in funding between Detroit and the rest of Wayne County.
    I'm not being snarky here -- I have absolutely no idea where you're going with this.

    Does Detroit outperform the rest of Wayne County? If so, why do you think this is?
    Less money for poorer schools doesn't strength bureaucracy as it doesn't add any government jobs to the school district payroll. It gives parents and current school administrators a lobbying tool and an excuse for their own failures when it comes to the standards they have set and applied in their community schools. Taking away the Federal DOE would cause them to have to examine themselves and their practices and review and hopefully change the standards they have set.
    I honestly don't know what to say.

    I agree with you in that we should have high standards for education.
    I agree that in this case, the Feds (NCLB, anyone?) have seriously dropped the ball.

    However, I still believe that federal funding can help more than it hurts.
    I still believe there needs to be some sort of national standard for education.
    We should, as a country, be able to say, "everyone with a high school education can do this," not "most people with a high school education can do this, except for people in these seven states" or whatever.

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  11. #36
    Mr Tater Salad
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    Default Re: WI General Discussion

    Jeckyll Island and the Federal Reserve

    By John Pounders, Paradigm Publishing, Copyright 1996

    My wife and I visited Jekyll Island, Georgia, in April, 1996. It immediately took on a fascination because I remembered that Jekyll is known as the birthplace of the Federal Reserve. In fact, the Clubhouse/hotel on the island has two conference rooms named for the "Federal Reserve."

    In 1886, a group of millionaires purchased Jekyll Island and converted it into a winter retreat and hunting ground, the USA's most exclusive club. By 1900, the club's roster represented 1/6th of the world's wealth. Names like Astor, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Pulitzer and Gould filled the club's register. Non- members, regardless of stature, were not allowed. Dignitaries like Winston Churchill and President McKinley were refused admission.

    In 1908, the year after a national money panic purportedly created by J. P. Morgan, Congress established, in 1908, a National Monetary Authority. In 1910 another, more secretive, group was formed consisting of the chiefs of major corporations and banks in this country. The group left secretly by rail from Hoboken, New Jersey, and traveled anonymously to the hunting lodge on Jekyll Island.

    The meeting was so secret that none referred to the other by his last name. Why the need for secrecy? Frank Vanderlip wrote later in the Saturday Evening Post, "...it would have been fatal to Senator Aldrich's plan to have it known that he was calling on anybody from Wall Street to help him in preparing his bill...I do not feel it is any exaggeration to speak of our secret expedition to Jekyll Island as the occasion of the actual conception of what eventually became the Federal Reserve System."

    At Jekyll Island, the true draftsman for the Federal Reserve was Paul Warburg. The plan was simple. The new central bank could not be called a central bank because America did not want one, so it had to be given a deceptive name. Ostensibly, the bank was to be controlled by Congress, but a majority of its members were to be selected by the private banks that would own its stock.

    To keep the public from thinking that the Federal Reserve would be controlled from New York, a system of twelve regional banks was designed. Given the concentration of money and credit in New York, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York controlled the system, making the regional concept initially nothing but a ruse.

    The board and chairman were to be selected by the President, but in the words of Colonel Edward House, the board would serve such a term as to "put them out of the power of the President." The power over the creation of money was to be taken from the people and placed in the hands of private bankers who could expand or contract credit as they felt best suited their needs.

    Why the opposition to a central bank?

    Americans at the time knew of the destruction to the economy the European central banks had caused to their respective countries and to countries who became their debtors. They saw the large- scale government deficit spending and debt creation that occurred in Europe.

    Shortly after the United States gained its freedom, the Rothschilds attempted to saddle the country with a private central bank. This Bank of the United States was abolished by President Andrew Jackson with these words:

    The bold effort the present bank has made to control the government, the distress it had wantonly produced...are but premonitions of the fate that awaits the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it.

    But European financial moguls didn't rest until the New World was within their orbit. In 1902, Paul Warburg, a friend and associate of the Rothschilds and an expert on European central banking, came to this country as a partner in Kuhn, Loeb and Company. He married the daughter of Solomon Loeb, one of the founders of the firm. The head of Kuhn, Loeb was Jacob Schiff, whose gift of $20 million in gold to the struggling Russian communists in 1917 no doubt saved their revolution.

    The Fed controls the banking system in the USA, not the Congress nor the people indirectly (as the Constitution dictates). The U.S. central bank strategy is a product of European banking interests.

    * * *

    Back to Jekyll, the Island

    National and world events of the 1930s led ultimately to the Club's closing in 1942. Jekyll Island was purchased by the state of Georgia in 1947. 33 of the Club member cottages and Clubhouse still stand. Many have been restored to their former grandeur and are open for tours.

    It is amazing what one can learn on vacation with little effort.
    I just found this to be very interesting after being informed about this subject matter (The Fed and how it came to be) on Thanksgiving by a family member. I really don't know what to think on the subject matter yet other then it is interesting to me. I will do more research on the topic and possibly read a book (The Ghost of Jekyll Island) to become informed on this issue. If anyone knows about this I would love to hear your thoughts on The Fed, how it came to be and its impact today.

  12. #37
    Holzhammer
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    Default Re: WI General Discussion

    Most of you have probably heard about the riots in France after two teenagers were killed when their motorcycle collided with a police car. I read this article today in a Belgian newspaper and I thought it was worth to translate into English for your enjoyment:

    Quote Originally Posted by De Standaard
    "The pigs asked for it, sir"

    Our reporter survived a night in the hell of Villiers-le-Bel.

    Villiers-le-Bel’s Chief of Police described the night of Tuesday to Wednesday as “relatively quiet” in his daily debriefing. “Only” a few dozen cars and “merely” two houses were torched, which is a lot less than the night before. “We locked up a lot of troublemakers in their own house so they could not go outside. The bad news is that the number of our colleagues who got injured during the riots has increased to 120; four of them are in Intensive Care with bullet wounds.”

    It seems that the worst has passed on Tuesday night after two days of blind violence, but then the emergency calls start to stream in. At the cemetery, we witness how a police officer is isolated by a group of masked youngsters and gets beaten up with steel pipes. Luckily, help quickly arrives.

    A few minutes later, as a medical team helps the wounded officer, the attackers turn up again and suddenly it starts raining stones, iron bolts and Molotov cocktails. There are shots as well but it later turns out that these were coming from an alarm gun.”

    The youngsters keep challenging the police. They advance and prepare for an attack. A very frightful moment because if they would break through the police cordon around the wounded officer, they probably won’t care about who is police officer, doctor or journalist. They would be the good guys and we would be the bad guys. Some officers are ordered to pull their weapons to fire warning shots, but two vans with water cannons arrive just in time and the street corner is literally swept clean. Later we are told that the wounded officer has probably suffered a fractured skull.

    His colleagues can barely conceal their anger but they have to contain themselves. For a while, at least. When a young troublemaker is arrested, the police officers make him pay for their colleague.

    It’s past midnight and the streets of Villiers-Le-Bel become ever more dangerous. Some neighbourhoods are hermetically sealed. Youngsters known to the justice department as troublemakers are locked up in their houses to prevent them from going outside. Patrols guard gas stations so youngsters can’t fill jerrycans with fuel and make fire bombs. “We learned from the riots in 2005.”

    Social worker Valérie (44) can do nothing but look. She knows these youngsters and has been trying for years to make them realize that violence is not a solution. “It’s sad, but what’s happening here now was bound to happen. All they needed was a tiny spark. Moushin and Larami’s deaths (the two teenagers who were hit by a police car and died on the way to the hospital) are a veritable declaration of war to them; especially because they were killed in a place where, in their eyes, the police should not even be. It’s their territory. Of course it’s wrong to think like t hat, but tell that to those youngsters. After the previous riots that lasted for three weeks, the government has announced tons of new measures.”

    Valérie sighs. “But nothing has changed. The neighbourhoods are decaying and grey, unemployment is still as high as it ever was and the youngsters are getting more and more frustrated. If you don’t have anything, nobody can take anything away from you. That’s their reasoning. It’s a lost generation, I’m afraid.”

    We meet Farid (16) and Sissoko (18) near the train station. The two boys from the banlieues of Villiers-le-Bel remind us of rugged characters from a war movie; two soldiers returning from the battle after another victory over the police.

    “People will have something to do tomorrow. We caused enough damage,” they laugh with a proud look on their face. It’s obvious they don’t care at all about having beaten a couple of police offers within an inch of their life. “They asked for it, didn’t they?” the African Sissoko says gravely. At the crack of dawn, insurance brokers immediately start assessing the damage. Once again it is enormous, but not nearly as much as the riots in 2005: then, the damage amounted to 200 million euros.

  13. #38
    Mabus
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    Default Next in the war plan

    Who are ppl kidding here when they act like wars not involving geographical states can be won? Let those be seen as obvious liars. Look how bad things are so spread out. Cant just send a nuke and rid the problem anymore at how things have gotten. But what's on the inside of one's cup of joe might be the problem.

    Cant win the war on terrorism. Cant win the war on drugs. Terrorism and drugs can be surpressed to an extent though. But as for the war on aids, it cant surpress aids, it'll only just prolong it so that it'll be more likely to spread since ppl infected have a tendency to have sex just like the next person. Hell, they need to cut the war on aids and consider on removing all treatment. As for the war on poverty... nothing significate/substancial is being done, though something can and will be done one way or another, individually or collectively, criminally or legally. That's why it's so many illegal and legal scams now since nothing significate/substancial is being done for ppl's need of the money. The war on ignorance came due to the world wide web and other educational means. The war on religion from atheists upholding things like seperation of church and state has done only a lil, but seems now like it's going nowhere like it's a waste of precious time. This new war brewing up to force help upon those you have a concern about being mentally ill (because of depressed ppl shooting up numbers of random ppl) will just get innocent ppl branded for life by something they might not even have by mental health doctors that act abusive with their position. There is the war on the government's system by the crookid and the legitamate. There are two types of crookid and legitamate in that. There is the crookid or legitamate on your side and the crookid or legitamate agianst you. And there is even the war on leadership where things are put to affect certain before they lead or while they lead. Etc. Am I missing any other wars? List them for me if you can.

    Anyway, what kind of war or whatever thing is missing that is crucial to the world? Even what kind of war or whatever thing would actually win or put an end to the other non-state based wars or even state based wars?


    My grand idea, since the world keeps generating anyway, is there need to be a selection of heards of all eatable animals and a selected few of healthy, attractive, smart, skilled (in this and that for the basics), non-religious ppl to repopulate and recolonize the world and make and teach a better plan for human life and to install to operate a better government system while the rest of the world, besides plants, need be put down like an injured or victious dog by a quick killing lethal supervirus (so it would be a humain death). The selection and selected few would be the only ones protected from it by anti-supervirus vaccine or whatever. It's like a controlled destruction to get rid of an entire destruction from coming. And it's like the world needs to be rebooted, so to speak, to start afresh when it gets bad to where just about everybody is a threat to everybody in one way or another (because of disease, terrorism, hatred, crime, abuse of power, etc).

    ^^And that's one way wars would be as if deleted from the face of the earth because there would be then no need for them. Then peace might be for good long time.

  14. #39
    Southbound
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    Default Re: Next in the war plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Mabus
    My grand idea, since the world keeps generating anyway, is there need to be a selection of heards of all eatable animals and a selected few of healthy, attractive, smart, skilled (in this and that for the basics), non-religious ppl to repopulate and recolonize the world and make and teach a better plan for human life and to install to operate a better government system while the rest of the world, besides plants, need be put down like an injured or victious dog by a quick killing lethal supervirus (so it would be a humain death). The selection and selected few would be the only ones protected from it by anti-supervirus vaccine or whatever. It's like a controlled destruction to get rid of an entire destruction from coming. And it's like the world needs to be rebooted, so to speak, to start afresh when it gets bad to where just about everybody is a threat to everybody in one way or another (because of disease, terrorism, hatred, crime, abuse of power, etc).

    .
    Why on Earth would you of all people suggest such a program unless you're suicidal?

  15. #40
    but secretly C to the C Engel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Next in the war plan

    At one time the Spartans were capable of such a wise measure, but not our present, mendaciously sentimental, bourgeois patriotic nonsense. The rule of six thousand Spartans over three hundred and fifty thousand Helots was only thinkable in consequence of the high racial value of the Spartans. But this was the result of a systematic race preservation; thus Sparta must be regarded as the first Völkisch State. The exposure of sick, weak, deformed children, in short their destruction, was more decent and in truth a thousand times more humane than the wretched insanity of our day which preserves the most pathological subject, and indeed at any price, and yet takes the life of a hundred thousand healthy children in consequence of birth control or through abortions, in order subsequently to breed a race of degenerates burdened with illnesses.
    /hitler


    Flowers gathered in the morning,
    Afternoon they blossom on,
    Still are withered by the evening:
    You can be me when I'm gone.

    @Foos

  16. #41
    Coco The Monkey
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    Default Re: Next in the war plan

    So... is this sort of the fresh start that wrestling fans cry about wanting when talk of ending the brand extension comes up?

    Eliminating progress seems rather counter-productive. Sending us back to a select few Adams and Eves would likely only lead us to make the same mistakes yet again. This is a little too radical.

    And then comes the moral arguement against killing everyone on the planet.....

  17. #42
    Moderately Moderating Michinokudriver's Avatar

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    Default Re: WI General Discussion

    In an occasional quest to make WI more than just "the political place" and a general knowledge discussion board...

    http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=...ay-deep-freeze

    Seeds of Future Agriculture Enter Doomsday Deep Freeze
    Millions of vital crop seeds will be buried deep within the frozen earth of Svalbard

    By David Biello



    A barren, treeless island in the Arctic archipelago of Svalbard may prove to be the last, best hope of agriculture in warmer, more fertile parts of the world. The first batch of 100 million of the most important agricultural seeds were placed into the doomsday repository there today. The Svalbard Global Seed Vault is buried deep within a frozen mountainside near the Norwegian town of Longyearbyen that perpetually cools it to –18 degrees Celsius (–0.4 degree Fahrenheit) with or without permafrost. Built to withstand all foreseeable disasters, including a recent earthquake that was the biggest in Norwegian history, it has room to protect at least 4.5 million samples (2.25 billion seeds) in its three man-made caverns.

    "The opening of the seed vault marks a historic turning point in safeguarding the world's crop diversity," says Cary Fowler, executive director of the Rome-based Global Crop Diversity Trust, which led the project. "Crop diversity will soon prove to be our most potent and indispensable resource for addressing climate change, water and energy supply constraints, and for meeting the food needs of a growing population."

    Rice was the first staple to be stored in the vault—strains from 104 countries around the globe. Sealed in airtight foil packages and encased in boxes, the seeds will remain viable but dormant in the low temperature and humidity conditions.

    Wheat, maize, potato, bean and even watermelon seeds will be placed in Svalbard in coming weeks. All told, 268,000 different varieties from Canada, Columbia, Mexico, Nigeria, Pakistan, the Philippines and Syria, among others, will be the first to enter the deep freeze.

    The vault is designed to protect against global-scale disasters—human or natural—that could potentially wipe out agriculture. Similar local seed banks have allowed farmers to recover from recent wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as well as provided new varieties capable of growing in changed conditions, such as rice strains that thrive in fields that had been inundated with saltwater after the Asian tsunami in 2004.

    "Gene banks are not seed museums but the repositories of vital, living resources that are used almost every day in the never-ending battle against major threats to food production," says Emile Frison, director general of Bioversity International. "We're going to need this diversity to breed new varieties that can adapt to climate change, new diseases and other rapidly emerging threats."

    Such gene banks are themselves vulnerable. For example, a typhoon in 2006 wiped out the Philippines's national rice seed repository. "Unfortunately, these kinds of national gene bank horror stories are fairly common," Fowler says.

    The Svalbard Global Seed Vault is meant to be the backup of last resort, stocked with copies of different crops from national seed storage facilities. For example, the U.S. Department of Agriculture's National Germplasm System plans to send more than a million seeds to the vault, including sweet pepper, squash and tomatoes.

    In the vault's cold isolation, the seeds can keep for hundreds and thousands of years—the grain sorghum alone can last for 20,000 years—effectively allowing agriculture to be restarted in the event of a global calamity, such as nuclear war or catastrophic climate change. But the vault will require some vestiges of human civilization to persist, if only to build the transportation to bring the seeds back out of their new icy home.

    "The world's crop gene pool contained in seeds is essential for increasing crop productivity; mitigating climate change, pests and diseases; and ensuring a genetic resource base for the future," said Jacques Diouf, director general of the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization, in remarks prior to the opening of the vault. "Seeds are the vehicle of life."

    Nominee: PW's Most Knowledgeable Poster, 2006
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  18. #43
    Moderately Moderating Michinokudriver's Avatar

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    Default Re: WI General Discussion

    Okay, so this is a little old but I found it fascinating.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...040401721.html

    HE EMERGED FROM THE METRO AT THE L'ENFANT PLAZA STATION AND POSITIONED HIMSELF AGAINST A WALL BESIDE A TRASH BASKET. By most measures, he was nondescript: a youngish white man in jeans, a long-sleeved T-shirt and a Washington Nationals baseball cap. From a small case, he removed a violin. Placing the open case at his feet, he shrewdly threw in a few dollars and pocket change as seed money, swiveled it to face pedestrian traffic, and began to play.

    Each passerby had a quick choice to make, one familiar to commuters in any urban area where the occasional street performer is part of the cityscape: Do you stop and listen? Do you hurry past with a blend of guilt and irritation, aware of your cupidity but annoyed by the unbidden demand on your time and your wallet? Do you throw in a buck, just to be polite? Does your decision change if he's really bad? What if he's really good? Do you have time for beauty? Shouldn't you? What's the moral mathematics of the moment?

    On that Friday in January, those private questions would be answered in an unusually public way. No one knew it, but the fiddler standing against a bare wall outside the Metro in an indoor arcade at the top of the escalators was one of the finest classical musicians in the world, playing some of the most elegant music ever written on one of the most valuable violins ever made. His performance was arranged by The Washington Post as an experiment in context, perception and priorities -- as well as an unblinking assessment of public taste: In a banal setting at an inconvenient time, would beauty transcend?


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  19. #44
    RS18
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    Default What does Islam say about terrorism?

    Unfortunately more and more often, Islam has been associated with terrorism and violence due to the actions of a few extreme individuals who’ve taken it upon themselves to do the most heinous crimes in the name of Islam.

    Tragic events such as the attack on the twin towers in New York, the bombings of Bali, Madrid and London are assumed to be justified by Islam in the minds of some people. This idea has been fueled further by many media channels which defame Islam by portraying these bombers as ‘Islamists’ or ‘Jihadists’, as though they were sanctioned by Islam, or had any legitimate spokemenship on behalf of Muslims. The actions of a few fanatical individuals who happen to have Muslim names or ascribe themselves to the Muslim faith should not be a yardstick by which Islam is judged. For the same reason, that one would not do justice to Christianity if it where perceived as sanctioning the genocide of the Native Americans, the atrocities of world war II or the bombings of the IRA.

    To understand Islam’s stance on terrorism, one must refer to its original sources, the Quran and the teachings of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him,which are explicit in their prohibition of any form of injustice including that of wanton violence which seeks to instill fear, injury or death to civilians.

    The Quran turns our attention to the high value of human life, whether it is Muslim or Non-Muslim and makes it absolutely forbidden to take an innocent life unjustly. The gravity of such a crime is equated, in the Quran, with the killing of all humanity.

    “On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.” ( 5:32 )

    Not only is human life sacred in Islam but the property, wealth, family and dignity of all individuals in society are to be respected and protected. Those who transgress these rights and sow fasad (corruption) as the Quran describes it, incur the wrath of Allah.

    "…and seek not corruption in the earth; lo! Allah loveth not corrupters " (28:77)

    Likewise in another verse

    “The blame is only against those who oppress men and wrong-doing and insolently transgress beyond bounds through the land, defying right and justice: for such there will be a penalty grievous” (42:42)

    Islam goes further than just prohibiting oppression and safeguarding rights, it commands its faithful to deal kindly and compassionately to all those who seek to live in peace and harmony

    "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: For Allah loves those who are just" (60:8)

    In times of war and conflict, where enmity can obstruct an individual’s judgement to act morally, Islam commands that justice be upheld even towards one’s enemies.

    "O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do" (5:8)

    Centuries before the Geneva Convention was drawn up, Muslims were bound by a code of conduct which the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, set. He forbade the killing of women, children and elderly in war. In an authentic narration the Prophet (pbuh) warned that he who kills anyone who has a covenant of peace with the Muslims will not smell the scent of Paradise. In fact, he taught that justice is not only to humans but must be shown to animals and all living things. In a narration the Prophet (pbuh) informed us about how a lady was sent to hell because of a cat she had locked up until it starved and died. If such is the sanctity which Islam places on the soul of an animal, how much more grave is the killing of hundreds of innocent humans?!

    Abu Bakr the first Calipha of the Muslims reflected these prophetic teachings when he advised his general Yazid, who was confronting Roman armies,

    "I advise you ten things, Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the booty, and do not be cowardly."

    The message of the Quran is clear as we have seen, that the sanctity of any human life is to be respected and any violation in that regard is paramount to the worst crime. Mercy is at the heart of the Islamic call, “We sent thee (O Muhammad) not save as a mercy for the peoples” (21:107); a totally different message to what the terrorists are sadly imparting to humanity.

  20. #45
    TEAM'ster
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    Default Re: What does Islam say about terrorism?

    Islam is not the problem. Islam is a peaceful religion like all religions. It's these idiots who are tought to believe that if they kill themselves for Allah they will go to paradise. Talk about being brainwashed.

  21. #46
    Heartbreak Kid
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    Default Re: What does Islam say about terrorism?

    It is quite clear in both the Quran and Sunnah that the harming or killing of innocents is forbidden.

  22. #47
    Marco Polo
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    Default Re: What does Islam say about terrorism?

    Quote Originally Posted by America's Fan
    Islam is not the problem. Islam is a peaceful religion like all religions. It's these idiots who are tought to believe that if they kill themselves for Allah they will go to paradise. Talk about being brainwashed.
    Have you read the Bible recently?

  23. #48
    Rani
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    Default Re: What does Islam say about terrorism?

    Yes, but judging by your tone I see you stopped before the New Testament.

  24. #49
    Marco Polo
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    Default Re: What does Islam say about terrorism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rani
    Yes, but judging by your tone I see you stopped before the New Testament.
    He said all religions are peaceful. It's a false statement regardless of what's in the New Testament.

    The Bible is just one example of violence in religion. The Quran also has some horrible stuff in it.

  25. #50
    Is just 2 sweet Razor_Blade's Avatar

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    Default Re: What does Islam say about terrorism?

    [QUOTE=RS18]Unfortunately more and more often, Islam has been associated with terrorism and violence due to the actions of a few extreme individuals who’ve taken it upon themselves to do the most heinous crimes in the name of Islam.
    [QUOTE]

    The whole terrorism and Islam is a pretty new veiw of a centry long conflict. The cold relationship between the west and the muslim east started centuries ago. Even before the funding of Israel, French and English colonies in the middle east.
    There has been a struggle with peacful periods now and then, since the muslims started to attack the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium) wich led to the crusades and reconquista.

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