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Thread: First day of Attitude Era?

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    Default First day of Attitude Era?

    What was officially the first episode or starting point of Attitude Era?

    (May need to move to history forum)
    Last edited by P1aytim3; 05-18-2017 at 05:57 AM. Reason: Wrong forum?

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    Default Re: First day of Attitude Era?

    King of the ring 1996, June 23rd

    or

    Survivor series 1997, Nov 9th
    Last edited by mysteriofan; 05-18-2017 at 08:01 AM.
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    Default Re: First day of Attitude Era?

    Sometime in 96. Before Survivor Series. I always thought the stuff with Goldust and then KOTR 96 ushered us in until Vince made it official on air. Only going by WWF unless the nWo took place earlier?

    When would you say it ended? 17 right?

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    Default Re: First day of Attitude Era?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ness View Post
    Sometime in 96. Before Survivor Series. I always thought the stuff with Goldust and then KOTR 96 ushered us in until Vince made it official on air. Only going by WWF unless the nWo took place earlier?

    When would you say it ended? 17 right?
    If we're flexible enough to potentially consider the start point to be as early as Goldust's debut in late '95, I'd like to challenge the commonly held notion that the AE ended at WMX7 and advance the idea that the AE dragged on through the Invasion, WMX8, and really finally only ended when we got the F out, instituted a brand split, and officially entered the Ruthless Aggression Era in 2002.

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    Default Re: First day of Attitude Era?

    I just make it simple and consider the Attitude Era as lasting from Wrestlemania 13 to Wrestlemania 17. This thread is why I don't go overboard with dividing things into eras. Throw 10 wrestling fans together and you'll likely get 10 different opinions on when these things started and ended.

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    Default Re: First day of Attitude Era?

    Officially, December 15, 1997:

    Quote Originally Posted by Fezz View Post
    "Big P, every day I praise Raven. He is in my top 10- OF ALL TIME. He may reach 9 soon."

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    Default Re: First day of Attitude Era?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baker View Post
    I just make it simple and consider the Attitude Era as lasting from Wrestlemania 13 to Wrestlemania 17. This thread is why I don't go overboard with dividing things into eras. Throw 10 wrestling fans together and you'll likely get 10 different opinions on when these things started and ended.
    Basically this. We'd all view it as starting in in a different date, when there really is no set date.

    Now, to add more confusion...

    Another possible starting date could be March, 17, 1997.

    http://prowrestling.wikia.com/wiki/M...ht_RAW_results

    The week prior, Raw was billed as "Raw is War", which became synonymous with the Attitude Era, and also this episode had Bret cutting a promo using profanity not common for the time ("this is bullshit").

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    Default Re: First day of Attitude Era?

    It was really a gradual transition that came in waves, it didn't really start overnight in one day. You had the proto-Attitude Era, the pre-season that probably begins with Pillman's got a gun and Goldust in 1996 up until the ECW Invasion(which had seeds planted in October 96) up to the launch of Shotgun Saturday Night in February 97, the way they focused in on Vader's blood at In Your House 4 way match that same month, up to Bret's promo saying Bullshit more or less acknowledging the fact that Vince is the boss. The first real wave starts at Mania 13, the bloodiest and most violent ECW style Wrestlemania ever up to that point. It progressed through that Spring, things started to get racier going into the Summer, Farooq playing the race card in the Taker feud, Foley's JR interview. Some say that Mania 13 was the end of the New Generation but to me Summerslam 97 really felt like the end of that era. September was the start of the 3rd wave, I always point to the Madison Square Garden episode of Raw from that month as a pretty good starting point but it was really a gradual build up to that show, after the MSG Raw in September it was on, they started to turn up the heat little by little, can't forget about Cornett's shoot promos on Raw at that time, Austin was also doing some crazy shit every week, the bloody/violent Hell in a Cell that October, then you had the Montreal Screwjob and then in December Vince delivers a full on disclaimer, put the women and children to bed early on Monday nights, shits about to get real. It was on. WCW was fucked.
    Last edited by ShinobiMusashi; 05-18-2017 at 03:24 PM.

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    Default Re: First day of Attitude Era?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leper Messiah View Post
    Basically this. We'd all view it as starting in in a different date, when there really is no set date.

    Now, to add more confusion...

    Another possible starting date could be March, 17, 1997.

    http://prowrestling.wikia.com/wiki/M...ht_RAW_results

    The week prior, Raw was billed as "Raw is War", which became synonymous with the Attitude Era, and also this episode had Bret cutting a promo using profanity not common for the time ("this is bullshit").
    This is it to me, when Raw became Raw is War and they brought in the titantron and everything. In fact, I recently started watching every episode of Raw starting from this show onwards as I consider it this beginning of the attitude era, 6 days later Austin also pretty much became a face when he passed out to the sharpshooter at WrestleMania 13.

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    Default Re: First day of Attitude Era?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Icon View Post
    Officially, December 15, 1997:
    Side note, this kicked off the second hour of Raw, immediately following a segment where Austin taunts The Rock by throwing the IC Belt off a bridge. They basically called their shot. It's a new era and these are the two guys.


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    Default Re: First day of Attitude Era?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Icon
    Officially, December 15, 1997:
    I'ma go w/ this. All the stuff prior set the foundation but this made it official.

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    Default Re: First day of Attitude Era?

    I've always considered Survivor Series 1997 as the beginning, WM13 as the day it was fully cemented in stone and finally Wrestlemania 17 as the definite end of the Attitude Era.

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    Default Re: First day of Attitude Era?

    While technically still apart of the same era, the product changed a lot following SummerSlam '99. Around that time, the WWF became a publicly traded company, a second two hour show is introduced, Russo, Ferrera and Taylor left to join WCW & Vince/HHH take a more prominent role in creative and on-screen.

    Guys like Rikishi Phatu, Kurt Angle, The Hardy Boyz, Edge & Christian, The Dudley Boyz, Chris Jericho & The Radicalz become more prominent members of the show, kicking off a second wave of the era.

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    Default Re: First day of Attitude Era?

    I've seen Mania 17 referred as the end of the era a lot. It may have been the end of an era talent-wise but I feel like the Attitude Era style of show was still being used well into 2006, in fact it was like things got sleazier, raunchier, and bloodier/more violent through those 2002-2006 years. The early days of the Attitude Era in 1998 still had a bit of a New Generation feel to it I think is why I still like it so much, it was like they went full retard with it going into 1999.

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    Default Re: First day of Attitude Era?

    I feel like one important aspect of the Attitude era is that it was more concerned about living in the moment.

    With the era that followed, it seemed like the WWE made a more concerted effort to preserve the past and chronicle the history of Pro Wrestling in it's image. So we got things like Masked Kane, D-Generation X '06, an ECW revival and guys like HBK & The Undertaker being protected as 'legends' of the WWE. You also saw the move from the big brawls dominating the main event scene to an 80s NWA style.

    The WWE definitely got raunchier around that time, which is why I don't necessarily think the move to PG was bad in of itself.

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    Default Re: First day of Attitude Era?

    Quote Originally Posted by PI View Post
    If we're flexible enough to potentially consider the start point to be as early as Goldust's debut in late '95, I'd like to challenge the commonly held notion that the AE ended at WMX7 and advance the idea that the AE dragged on through the Invasion, WMX8, and really finally only ended when we got the F out, instituted a brand split, and officially entered the Ruthless Aggression Era in 2002.
    It always felt to me like Wrestlemania 17 is the perfect ending to the Attitude Era. ECW had just gone under, WVW got bought out by WWE, and the card up and down was spectacular, with the event featuring one if WWE's biggest crowds in a long time, and Austin turning heel just felt like the book on it finished up being written and was sent out.

    After that, it would feel more like WWE was in a state if limbo, with nothing really happening until the invasion angle started, then the brand split, and then no real new era until Vince cut a promo wanting to see "ruthless aggression" out of the roster, giving a name to the era following the Attitude Era.

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    Default Re: First day of Attitude Era?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leper Messiah
    It always felt to me like Wrestlemania 17 is the perfect ending to the Attitude Era. ECW had just gone under, WCW got bought out by WWE, and the card up and down was spectacular, with the event featuring one if WWE's biggest crowds in a long time, and Austin turning heel just felt like the book on it finished up being written and was sent out.

    After that, it would feel more like WWE was in a state of limbo, with nothing really happening until the invasion angle started, then the brand split, and then no real new era until Vince cut a promo wanting to see "ruthless aggression" out of the roster, giving a name to the era following the Attitude Era.
    Seems like Vince announcing an era is the common thread of official beginnings.

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    Default Re: First day of Attitude Era?

    Quote Originally Posted by MV View Post
    Seems like Vince announcing an era is the common thread of official beginnings.
    Very likely. I mean, he controls it, so he can decide when this and that begins.

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    Default Re: First day of Attitude Era?

    Just for boredom's sake, but to also try to further defend my previous position...

    I like to try to think of the AE (or possibly any era?) in terms of the three act structure. In such a structure, I consider WMX7 to be more the climax of the whole thing, at the very end of Act II, with Act III generally being the wind-down and clean-up act... Which feels like it fits post-WMX7 through the Brand Split. This was the part of the story that tried to tidy things up and set the stage for the next book/play/whatever in the trilogy/saga/et cetera.

    To expand on this idea... I would almost view things like Goldust, Luger jumping ship, Diesel's tweener run, Austin 3:16, the Outsiders invasion, Hogan's heroes turn, Pillman's got a gun, and Bret's year-long mounting frustration as a prologue.

    Then I'd agree that WMXIII seems like a good starting point for Act I, kicked off by the double turn and Austin's unofficial crowning as the face of the AE. Austin's broken neck, increasingly palpable tension between Austin and authority as well as between Bret and Shawn, the rise of Sable and DX, the Foley interview, the MSJ, McMahon's announcement of the AE, Bret in WCW, and Starrcade '97 cover the rest of Act I.

    Act II, which is always the longest act, essentially kicks into gear with Austin being officially crowned at WMXIV. DX morphs/evolves, the nWo grows and splits and feuds, Austin/McMahon clash, Russo runs wild, more T&A, Foley's HIAC bump, Rock's rise, Goldberg's streak, the MNW raging with folks jumping ship and companies living and dying by quarter hour ratings, and pro wrestling getting so hot that Austin's absence doesn't really affect business... carries us all the way through Act II. Act II climaxes with the end of everything as we know it... WCW and ECW not only did, but are absorbed by WWF. A returning Austin not only turns heel, but aligns with arch nemesis Mr. McMahon. Rock disappears to Hollywood. What now? How is everything resolved?

    That's what Act III's are all about. We get the awkwardness of the InVasion and a heel Austin. That doesn't really work out and plays itself to an early end. More Turner contracts expire, and the roster bloats to epic proportions with fantasy-inducing depth. We go on a nostalgia kick, revisiting watered-down highlights of the AE in nWo, heel McMahon, face Austin. WMX8 is great and unique while still somehow feeling the same... But also while not really being the same. In the wake of WMX8, Rock is headed back to Hollywood. Austin takes his ball and goes home. The plane ride from hell depletes some of the big names from the roster. The brand split and draft are announced. The nWo finally dies, once and for all, not with a bang but a whimper​. And after being told to get the F out, Vince hammers home the final deathknell by declaring he wants an era of ruthless aggression. A new era, embodied by a brand new face... Some Power Plant-esque graduate from a here-to-before unknown OVW... The next big thing, Brock Lesnar.

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    Default Re: First day of Attitude Era?

    I think it's hard to say there was ONE single moment that started the attitude era, or that there was an exact date. I think it was definitely a gradual push toward the attitude era.

    There are several moments that deserve mention for this, and I'm sure most of them (or all of them) have already been mentioned...

    The Pillman's Got a Gun segment
    King of the Ring 1996 and the birth of Austin 3:16
    Survivor Series 1997 and The Montreal ScrewJob
    Mike Tyson appearing on Raw and getting into a shoving match with Steve Austin
    Wrestlemania 1998 and Austin winning the title
    Badd Blood 1997/The first Hell In A Cell
    Vince McMahon's "Bret Screwed Bret" interview
    Vince McMahon's message to the audience about "edgier content" and going a different direction
    The first time Austin stunned Vince

    I know I am forgetting some.

    Also, I just want to say that it's my opinion that ECW had a DIRECT influence on the attitude era, and they definitely influenced what WCW and WWE were doing at the time. Anybody who says differently is lying to themselves. Go back and watch ECW content from the mid-90's. They were already doing things in 1994/1995/1996 that would have been unheard of in the WWE or WCW at that point. It's not just the style of wrestling they had, but the storylines as well.

    I also think that when we ask about the "attitude era" we think about WWE moments. I think you have to give some credit to WCW/Scott Hall/Kevin Nash for the nWo angle in the sense that it influenced the WWE to change it's content, and therefore gave us the attitude era.

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    Default Re: First day of Attitude Era?

    Over the last couple of years I did a Raw rewatch from '93 to '02. There was one moment that stood out as seeming like they were doing something entirely different, it was the first shock moment they did something they would not have done before. Unfortunately I can't give you an exact date, but the moment was the first table spot on Raw. It was between Farooq and Ahmed Johnson. I can't even remember who went through the table. But I do remember they botched it and the table wouldn't break, so they had to try a few times before they could get the spot to work.

    As for the end I agree with PI 2002 is about right. Perhaps Broc's debut, or Cena's. They represented the ruthless aggression era so it can't start until at least one of them is there. Not long after Cena debuted Batista and Randy Orton showed up as well. So I'm saying Cena's debut is the start.

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