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Thread: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

  1. #101
    It's all in the reflexes Baker's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Chris Jericho

    Look- 7.5- Short and not in the best shape but also had fabulous wrestler's hair and nice outfits. Loses a point for his look over the past decade. Should have stuck with pants.

    Promos- 8- The 'low' score is because I hated his early WWF promos. Thought Jericho was so try hard and corny for his first few years in the company. He grew on me after losing the Undisputed title and cutting some solid heel promos. Became probably the best mic guy in the business after his 2007 return. Also like his WCW promo work. So he's a 9-10 for most of his career with a two stretch of like a 3-4 (because those cornball promos did get over with the crowd even while I was rolling my eyes)

    In Ring- 7.5- I was wavering between 7.5 & 8. Went with the lower score because most everybody says he hasn't been good for a long time. Jericho was a plodfoot (great term) but he seemed to understand wrestling and adapted to the WWF style well over time. Also had more good brawls than you might think. And it's not like he was some kind of scrub in his early Japan/ECW/WCW Cruiserweight days either. Think I could pass the Chris Jericho 10 Match Challenge rather easily.

    Chris Benoit

    Look- 5- Was in very good shape and I agree with those who said he had a grizzled/tough face. But he was also really short. He was dwarfed by guys like Billy Gunn & HHH and nobody thinks of them as giants. You know what else always bothered me about Benoit's look? I almost don't want to tell you guys because once you see it you can't unsee it, but he had the shortest, stubbiest arms.

    Promos- 2- Almost gave him a 3 because he cut a shockingly look 15 minute sitdown monologue promo in ECW but then I remembered his occasional attempts at....comedy? Devising a catchphrase? Toothless Aggression comes to mind. And Pete or Kilgore once mentioned a Benoit "talk to the hand" promo in WCW.

    In Ring- 10- One of the best ever. Obviously a great 'technician' but was also a hell of a brawler and pure babyface. If I wanted to be That Guy I suppose I could dock him to a 9.5 because I didn't really like him much as a heel, but I'll be generous this time around.

    Eddie Guerrero

    Look- 7- As a mulleted heel, had one of wrestling's all time great sleazeball looks. But his early white meat babyface look was so, well, white meat babyfacey. And later on was almost too jacked. Like he looked as if he might explode at any second. Was also short.

    Promos- 7- I liked serious Eddie during his 2005 heel turn a lot but his 2000 "Latino Heat" promos were just as cringey as Jericho's promos from the same time period. 2002-2003 Los Guerreros stuff was another high point but then I soured on his promos again until the heel turn. Don't remember much promo-wise from his early white meat babyface days.

    In Ring- 9- One of the most versatile guys ever. Pioneered 'new style wrestling,' adapted well to WWE main event style, could brawl, have a 'technical' match or fly. I deducted a point because I grew sick of the Lie, Cheat & Steal shtick at some point. It wasn't unlike my current day reactions to Kenny Omega & the Young Bucks.

    Dean Malenko

    Look: 2- Looks like an accountant.

    Promos: 2- Cuts a promo like an accountant.

    In Ring: 8- I haven't yet gotten to the stage where "too smooth" is a criticism, though I'm sure one of these days I will. Malenko was silky smooth. I loved watching him wrestle. He'd string moves together beautifully. Whenever that vague term "technical wrestling" is brought up Malenko is the first guy I think of. So why only an 8? Well, because he was very one dimensional. He had his match and that was that. Don't even recall any quailty Malenko bouts vs. heavyweights. But he was damn good at his one kind of match.

    *I like Dean Malenko and he's probably my lowest rated guy yet Oh well. So it goes.

    Rey Mysterio Jr.

    Look: 7.5- Turned his lack of size into a positive. If Malenko is the quintessential technical wrestler then Rey is the quintessential under 200 pound wrestler. Also gets a few points for the masks and big show outfits.

    Promos: 3- I only really remember one Rey Mysterio promo- the one from early NWO days where he talked about idolizing The Hulkster and feeling betrayed. That was good. The rest of Rey's career on the mic, not so much.

    In Ring: 9- Best high flyer ever. Sure, later guys did more flips, and maybe they jumped higher, but none of them were as natural as Rey. He was as smooth in the air as Malenko was in the ring. Dude was just born to be a high flying professional wrestler. I had to deduct .5 for Rey never working heel and another .5 for the stupid 619.

    *I'll cover the rest later or tomorrow
    Last edited by Baker; Yesterday at 12:19 AM.

  2. #102
    It's all in the reflexes Baker's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    *I bumped Eddie's promos down from a 7.5 to a 7 if it matters.

    Rick Rude

    Look: 10- Pulled off the Magnum better than Magnum TA (or PI, to tell the truth). Wisely cut his hair when the time came. Had a great physique with a mustache to match. Wore spectacular, feud-themed pants. Screw it. I just changed his score from a 9.5 to 10.

    Promos: 8- I can't recall any real 'money promos' from Rude but his pre-match crowd insults were always a hoot.

    In Ring: 8- Could be vicious or wimpy depending on the situation. Had good offense. Did occasionally get a little rest hold heavy and the theatrics get tiresome when I watch a bunch of Rude matches back to back. Also never worked face.

    Mr. Perfect

    Promos: 8- Has a reputation as a mediocre promo guy. Maybe that's true. I dunno. All I know is the Perfect vignettes are some of the greatest things pro wrestling has ever produced and he was gold in them.

    Look: 9- Good physique. Tanned. Good wardrobe imo (though your mileage may vary on this one. I personally liked his colorful singlets). Good hair made even better by the fact you knew he was in a war when his hair got messed up. It wasn't unlike Warrior or Sting's facepaint in that regard.

    In Ring: 9- Good moveset. Big bumper. Great squasher. Good punches. Obviously a good in ring heel, I also liked his wrestling as a face. The only thing preventing me from going even higher is a long list of great matches, and even that may be due to the time and place in which he wrestled.

    Jake Roberts

    Look: 3- I went back and forth on this one. Jake looked even sleazier than mulleted heel Eddie. Unfortunately, he had that pedophile look while working as a babyface for many years. @Sea Slug asked a while back what constitutes a 1 in look? 1996 Jake Roberts is the answer to that question.

    Promos: 9.5- Jake intentionally spoke quietly so the people sitting at home would either have to get closer to the tv or turn up the volume. That's just brilliant imo. Definitely a top tier promo guy. Even cut perhaps the greatest Wrestlecrap promo of all time at Heroes of Wrestling.

    In Ring: 5- "Too much psychology" is a thing in Bakerland. It would have been nice for Jake to learn a 4th move at some point. Not much of a bumper either. Can't think of many great, or even good, Jake matches. Wasn't much of a squasher either beyond the DDT. But does get a point for making the DDT THE cool move of the 80s.

    Ted Dibiase

    Look: 6- Pretty tall but had no physique. My brother and I have actually discussed how it was kind of weird for Vince to push him so hard given Vince's tastes in that department. Had decent hair and a fairly iconic beard. Also wore some nice outfits. But again, his trunks were almost NWA-levels bland with only the dollar signs to give them some flair.

    Promos: 8.5- He mastered his Million Dollar Man character. Had an all time great evil laugh.

    In Ring: 7- Another one I wavered on. Since becoming a 'smark' in the mid 90s, and perhaps even before then, I had always thought Dibiase was a high quality in ring performer. Dynamite Kid was the first to make me question this 'fact.' Dynamite criticized Dibiase for not wrestling heelish enough. After initially scoffing, I realized Dynamite was right. This guy is the biggest heel in the company and his wrestling is......technically fine but without edge It doesn't really fit the character. On the other hand, his stuff did look good- Great powerslam. Great fistdrop. Nice bumps. Quality punches. I think he's actually a much better face wrestler. Was a really good brawler in Mid South while still having the smoothness and good execution. We never saw that side of him in WWF. Also doesn't have many great matches.

    Ricky Steamboat

    Look: 9- I didn't remember/was shocked at how jacked Steamboat occasionally got. Had cool pants and a thick head of hair until late in his career. The occasional Dragon wings are a bonus. Screw the haters.

    Promos: 4- Bland but effective. He did get his character across.

    In Ring: 9.5- In the running for best in ring babyface ever. GOAT armdrags. Good athleticism. Master seller. Could occasionally get a little hold-heavy. Also never worked heel.

  3. #103
    Senior Member The Icon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor View Post
    Late WWE run I can understand, but early WWE run? Probably my favourite Mysterio era. His work with the likes of Benoit, Angle and Eddie is phenomenal. Sure he didn't necessary excel against people who couldn't keep up, but he's one of the best wrestlers on the roster in 2002/3.
    It wasn't really of his doing but he got kind of boxed in by the WWE main event style. Those were all great matches but I just preferred his way of working with the rest of the WCW cruiserweights.

    Rick Rude- Total: 26.5

    Look: 10- Looked the part with the physique, mustache and self absorbed air brushed tights. Glad he got a haircut later on to improve his look further.

    Promo: 9- He had a great sounding voice which helped make him seem more of a bad ass. His creative ways of cutting down the audience during his intro are still some of my favorite mic moments in all of wrestling.

    In-Ring: 7.5- GOAT neckbreaker and perfect at selling which is essential for any good heel. He also added mannerisms that could set the crowd off and hate him even more. Was a bit sloppy in execution at times for someone of his reputation.

    Mr. Perfect- Total: 25.5

    Look: 7.5- TV doesn't do him justice, during his WWF career was every bit of that 250 pounds. The brightly colored singlets (the reason for his size being masked) and mess of hair as his matches progressed made him memorable.

    Promo: 9- Tremendous speaker who exuded confidence. You had no trouble believing he was perfect.

    In-Ring: 9- Very sound but was the victim of over selling at times. Could get down and dirty like any good heel with some good brawling and shortcuts.

    Jake Roberts- Total: 22.5

    Look: 4.5- His tall lean physique matched his moniker but he didn't wow anyone with his physical presence. Bonus points for the mustache and mullet.

    Promo: 10- All time great on the mic with his understated but threatening approach. This was a stark contrast to the coke riddled promos of the main eventers. It made you think there really was something a little off with Jake which most of the time there was.

    In-Ring: 8.5- There was no wasted moves with Jake, everything had a purpose and had an impact. He made the DDT the most over move of the 80's and his short arm clothesline was a thing of beauty. Heel or face could tell a story with his demeanor which drew audiences further into his matches.

    Ted Dibiase- Total: 21.25

    Look: 5.5- Nothing to write home about physique wise but his garish suits and well groomed hair and beard made him perfect as Vince's Million Dollar Man.

    Promo: 8.5- Again like Rude just had an unforgettable voice, add in the trademark laugh and you already have the tools for greatness on the mic. His interactions with the crowd where they had to earn their money are classic. He just didn't have enough memorable promos directed at his competition.

    In-Ring: 7.25- Nothing flashy just really good at every aspect but didn't have that extra pizzazz to get him higher grades.

    Rick Steamboat- Total: 24

    Look: 9.5- Docked him for being short for an uppercard/main eventer. He was a jacked Bruce Lee and he always had a great wardrobe from the gi/solid colored pants/boots to the awesome airbrushed tights later on. His dragon costume is one of wrestling's guilty pleasures.

    Promo: 4.5- This area was always a struggle. He was just too nice to even deliver fiery babyface promos and he already had trouble with his delivery as he would stumble over words.

    In-Ring: 10- Steamboat is the definition of clean and crisp. Everything looked effortless and done with such precision. I could dock him at least half a point for his shoddy use of martial arts but I'm in a giving mood.
    Last edited by The Icon; Yesterday at 02:31 AM.

  4. #104
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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    ignored mine but accepted themaskedotter bs lol... it still counts just because i think punk is overrated as hell... and on the mic of course he can sound awesome with his pipe bomb... i think he is a cunt that loves to hear himself talk... And backs nothing up... why i gave him a 2...

  5. #105
    Moderator Emperor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Rick Rude
    Look: 10.
    Promo: 6. His shtick gets stale pretty quickly, but he's pretty good at it.
    In ring: 8. Mainly based on his Ironman with Steamboat. That's a fantastic match.

    Jake Roberts
    Look: 5. Looks like a stay-at-home dad. Except the hair. He gets a couple of points for that.
    Promo: 7. He had his unique way of speaking but I never got his reputation as a dark/terrifying/remorseless/cold person, at least to the extent that people claim. Like, I get the feeling that if he were to cut promos the way he did in modern times, he'd be lambasted as a boring monotone speaker, in a similar way to how Orton's promos are received. Icon makes an interesting point about contrast. I'd certainly prefer to listen to a Jake promo than a Savage or Warrior one. I'll bump him up an extra point for succeeding with such a toned down promo style in Rock 'N' Wrestling WWF.
    In ring: 4. Pretty much what Baker said. Too much psychology is not a good thing. Can't think of any great matches or even any particularly good ones.

    Ricky Steamboat
    Look: 9. Had a bit of a Bruce Lee vibe, but with a kinder face. Great attire to complement that look.
    Promo: 3.
    In ring: 9. One of the very best at what he did, but didn't do much beyond that.

  6. #106
    Big Pimpin' Big Pete's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Rick Rude
    Look: 10. When you combine the classic porn-star look with the tights which happened to have an air-brushed picture of himself, then you've got one of the greatest heel looks of all-time.
    Promo: 7. I agree with Emperor, but I thought his shtick was effective and his delivery was really on-point. I thought his best promo work came after the WWF, but the fundamentals were always there.
    In Ring: 7. A very inconsistent worker from what I've seen and heard but had his strong points. Any guy who can work a quality match with Warrior with all of his limitations and make him look good deserves a positive rating.

    Jake Roberts
    Look: 7. Sort of had the classic 70s 'wrestling look' but I thought he made it work for him. He may not have had the best bod, but what he lacked in that department, he made up for with his expressions. There's very few guys in Pro Wrestling who have made me care what they're thinking. Jake had this ability to communicate with his eyes, and so few guys in the business could touch him in that department.
    Promo: 10. Like Flair, Dusty, Austin, Rock etc. I could watch Jake promos all day and never get bored. The guy was amazing.
    In Ring: 6. I can't think of too many great Jake matches, but you can see his influence on DDP & Raven from a mile away. He got one move over, and everyone bought into it. One of the running themes of the early Rumbles was watching Jake tease the DDT, watching the crowd rise up their seats only for the other guy to get out of it. It's crazy to think about in this day and age how he got such a basic maneuver over like that. As somebody who is a big believer in less is more and never had an issue with Tyson and Ronda, Jake was certainly above average in my books.

    Ted Dibiase
    Look - 8. What he lacked in physique, he made up for in his Million Dollar Man persona. I can't think of Dibiase without his suit, loud haircut and smackable face.
    Promo - 8. He didn't look out of place in an era of excellent promos and his character gave him so much to work with. I sort of feel like his laugh is a blessing and a curse because on one hand it is so memorable, on the other I struggle to remember anything else about him.
    In-Ring - 7. A solid ring general who could work a nice clip and just about anybody. His best match occurred before his time in the WWF in that match Bake got me onto, but I thought he still had plenty of highlights in the WWF and was usually busting his ass to put on a show.

    Ricky Steamboat
    Look - 8. Good physique but in an era of giants, Steamboat's height hurt him. I also thought the WWF did him no favours by trying to play up his heritage.
    Promo - 3. Pretty basic white meat babyface stuff. I haven't seen a whole lot so I could probably bump him up or down but he was relatively poor during his era and that more than anything else hurt him.
    In-Ring - 10. One of the greatest of all-time, bumped and sold his arse off, knew how to structure his matches and has so many classics against a wide array of opponents he's just a blast to watch. Even when I was opposed to watching the slow minimalistic style of Pro Wrestling, I could always sink my teeth into a Dragon match.

  7. #107
    Senior Member bizil's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Rick Rude

    Look- 10
    Promo- 8
    In ring- 7 (later down the road, WCW Rude would have gotten an 8. He peaked as a total package in WCW. Flair was the only one superior in the total package sense in the company at that point.)

    Mr. Perfect

    Look - 8
    Promo- 7
    In ring- 10

    Jake Roberts

    Look- 6
    Promo- 10
    In ring- 7

    Ted DiBiase

    Look- 7
    Promo- 8.5
    In ring- 8 (if it was Mid South Dibiase, I would give him a 9 here)

    Ricky Steamboat

    Look- 8 (if it was his peak Mid Atlantic bodybuilder look, I would have given his a 9 maybe a 10 even)
    Promo- 5
    In ring- 10
    Last edited by bizil; Yesterday at 08:52 AM.

  8. #108
    is not your buddy, guy.

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Quote Originally Posted by thelist View Post
    ignored mine but accepted themaskedotter bs lol... it still counts just because i think punk is overrated as hell... and on the mic of course he can sound awesome with his pipe bomb... i think he is a cunt that loves to hear himself talk... And backs nothing up... why i gave him a 2...
    >backs nothing up
    >longest reigning WWE Champion in over 25 years.

  9. #109
    Senior Member Sea Slug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Rick Rude
    Look- 10
    Promo- 8
    In ring- 8

    Mr. Perfect
    Look - 9
    Promo- 8
    In ring- 10

    Jake Roberts
    Look- 5
    Promo- 10
    In ring- 7

    Ted DiBiase
    Look- 7
    Promo- 9
    In ring- 8

    Ricky Steamboat
    Look- 8
    Promo- 4
    In ring- 10
    If all of mankind minus one were of of one opinion, and only one person of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.
    -John Stuart Mill

  10. #110
    Moderator Emperor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    For the record, I think we should accept thelists's scores with the possible exception of Punk, because I feel as though his hatred of the man is clouding his judgment. I'm also happy to accept his 0 for Rey Mysterio look even if I don't understand it at all. Everyone should be allowed a voice, right? I'm the only one who raised any concerns (publicly at least), and that was only for two specific scores.

  11. #111
    ≡≡≡≡|≡≡≡≡

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor View Post
    For the record, I think we should accept thelists's scores with the possible exception of Punk, because I feel as though his hatred of the man is clouding his judgment. I'm also happy to accept his 0 for Rey Mysterio look even if I don't understand it at all. Everyone should be allowed a voice, right? I'm the only one who raised any concerns (publicly at least), and that was only for two specific scores.
    I say everything be accepted, wholesale... No exceptions. Freedom of speech, expression, opinion... Even dissenting opinions. Otherwise the integrity of our data is fucked IMO. There are generally enough "unclouded" voters to mitigate any skewing effects of "clouded" voters, but if you think about it... Really, we're all clouded to some degree.

  12. #112
    I feel kinda invincible Kilgore's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Somebody called thelist a troll, so I immediately ignored him. I haven't come across him really before. I'll add his grades tonight, though. All of them.


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    Fan Fiction Hall of Famer PB's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    I've been loving this thread all week but have only really had time to read from my phone. I'm on my laptop so get ready for a long catch-up which you can add to the scores or ignore for being so overbearingly late. Great great thread though.

    Rock 'n' Wrestling

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    s u r r e n d e r

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  14. #114
    I feel kinda invincible Kilgore's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System


    Mr. Perfect: 25.8
    Rick Rude: 25.4
    Ted DiBiase: 22.5
    Ricky Steamboat: 21.9
    Jake Roberts: 21.1

    @PB is all caught up and @thelist has been heard and his grades tallied, even though he called me a cunt.

    I figure we got two more batches before the WCW Countdown begins.

    The penultimate batch: The ROH Generation (Whatever you consider their prime):

    Brian Danielson/Daniel Bryan:
    AJ Styles:
    Samoa Joe:
    Christopher Daniels:
    Austin Aries:
    Kevin Steen/Kevin Owens:


  15. #115
    It's all in the reflexes Baker's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Daniel Bryanson (career)

    Look: 3- Had a 1 look for most of his career. You couldn't be more generic. He looked like a college student. Even his attire was terribly generic. Finally showed a glimpse of flash circa 2004 when he grew out the beard which would one day become iconic and matched it with a sweet Jedi robe. Then went back to being the most generic looking dude on the planet. Regrew the beard in WWE. It got hugely over. And his lack of size/regular guyness became an asset.

    Promos: 6- Started out with promos every bit as bland as his appearance. He got better. Gets a few points for coining the most popular catchphrase of his era.

    In Ring: 10- I was tempted to be That Guy and go 9-9.5. I still think he suffered from IWA-Mid South Chris Hero syndrome in his indie days- meaning the bulk of his matches went 5-10 minutes too long. I also would have docked him for lack of versatility once upon a time (through no real fault of his own. He actually wanted to defend the ROH Title against non-ROH style guys like Brad Armstrong & Kamala on ROH shows but stupid Gabe wouldn't go for it. Shame.) but he overcame that by wrestling a wide assortment of guys in WWE. Bryan succeeded in many different roles- heel, face, bully, underdog, technical, etc. So, yeah, 10/10.

    AJ Styles (career)

    Look: 6- Was always in good shape but early AJ's regular guy haircut and generic attire were Bryan Danielson-levels of bland, though early AJ would score a point for his hoodie. Got better in this department by growing wrestler's hair and switching to pants containing at least a little bit of flair.

    Promos: 6- Another who dramatically improved over the years. I randomly watched like two TNA shows in 2011 and was shocked at how good the once-terrible AJ had gotten on the mic.

    In Ring: 10- Could hang with any of his ROH contemporaries in workrate matches and I actually rated him above most of those guys even at an early stage due to AJ being forced to go outside his comfort zone and wrestle guys like Sandman & Zbyszko (in good matches!) in early TNA. AJ also showed a fire and brawling ability before many of his early indie boom colleagues. So he was pretty great early on and general consensus is he's only gotten better.

    Samoa Joe (prime only)

    Look: 4- Not a traditional WWE body but it worked for the dominant monster character he played. Hey, Vader wasn't pretty either. Joe does lose points for those butt ugly long shorts he used to wear. Hideous things they were. Also lacked any sort of flair when it came to attire.

    Promos: 6.5- Joe was solid but unspectacular on the mic. Spoke with conviction. You really believed he thought he was the best in the world.

    In Ring: 10- I actually prefer prime Joe in the ring to Daniel Bryan at any point in his career. Sure, Bryan was better longer, and had more range, but Joe perfected his formula, and I think he was the best in ring competitor around in the mid-2000s. Had good/great matches with just about everybody in multiple different promotions. Come to think of it, 2004-2005 Joe might be in the running with 1989 Flair, 2000 HHH & 2001 Austin when it comes to all time great years. Joe was killing it all over the US in ROH, TNA, IWA-Mid South, etc. Could do heel or face, brawls or technical matches. About the only thing he didn't do was play underdog but it's kind of hard to be the underdog when you're the biggest guy on the scene. Thinking about Joe's epic ROH title run makes me think Greatest Title Reigns might be our next countdown....maybe.

    Christopher Daniels (until a few years ago when he became awful)

    Look: 5- His current look with that hideous singlet is the pits. Let's get that out of the way first. Prime Daniels had a decent look though. Especially when he rocked the priest robe and sunglasses. Seemed cool. Kind of sinister. Was fairly tall, at least in comparison with his contemporaries. Had a weird body though. Thick legs with a pretty thin upper body.

    Promos: 7.5- One of the better mic guys on the scene in is heyday. Might be underrating him a tad.

    In Ring: 8.5- Suffers from a mild case of Sabu Syndrome. He was doing the WCW Cruiserweight thing better than anybody else on the indies, and probably better than most WCW cruiserweights. Prime Daniels was Dean Malenko smooth with even cooler moves. But, like Sabu, other guys would come along and do his stuff better, add to/improve upon it, or gain more mainstream exposure, which rendered Daniels somewhat obsolete. But make no mistake. Daniels was a pioneer in his own right.

    Austin Aries (career)

    Look: 5- In good shape but very short even by indie standards. Gets a point for pulling a Rock and using his (ugly) tattoo for branding/marketing purposes.

    Promos: 6- Vaguely remember him being solid on the mic.

    In Ring: 9- Very explosive. One of the best ever at stringing moves together. But a step down from his upper tier peers (Joe, Bryan, AJ). Don't think he has quite the versatility of Bryan & AJ, and he never mastered a formula the way Joe did.

    Kevin Owensteen (career)

    Look: 1- One of the worst looking guys to ever land a WWE contract. Looks like the old weekend warrior indie/ECW brawling midcarder type. If this whole wrestling thing doesn't work out perhaps he can land a spot working as a short order cook with CM Punk.

    Promos: 7 (incomplete)- I haven't seen/heard too much of Owens on the mic.

    In Ring: N/A- incomplete- Decided not to give him a score here. I've seen a decent amount of random Steen matches but I don't think I've seen any of his classics. So it's not really fair to rate him. Though I will say 'comedy' Kevin Steen is the pits. Possibly even worse than comedy Omega or comedy Young Bucks. The Nakamura match from a few years ago is one of my least favorite matches of this decade.

  16. #116
    Moderator Emperor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Brian Danielson Bryan
    Look: 5. Athletic build but otherwise quite short and unremarkable. I have mixed feelings about the long hair/beard look. I don't think he looks good like that but I'll give it positive credit as it got over and made him stand out. To the point where I can't see Daniel Bryan working at all in WWE with his clean cut ROH look (even though he did for a while).
    Promo: 7. Lacks the gift of the gab of the greats, but made up for it in natural charisma, likeability, and authenticity. His retirement speech is brilliant.
    In ring: 10. The way I see it, if he doesn't get a 10, nobody does. I consider him to be the greatest in-ring wrestler ever. No matter what role he played and what style he worked, he not only put on amazing matches but got over everywhere he went, and he did it all with a subpar look.

    AJ Styles
    Look: 8. He has a 5/6 body but I love his attire. The jacket, the gloves, the tights, even the haircut and beard. It all fits so wonderfully together. Styles in early TNA gets a 5 at most. But the AJ of the past few years is an 8.
    Promo: 8. He's really come into his own in his WWE run. Not sure where he got all that promo ability from. I guess it was his later days in TNA? Not seen any AJ promos from that phase, but being in the company of Flair, Hogan, Bischoff, Nash et al for so long must help your mic game.
    In ring: 10. Even in his early years he was tremendous athlete with one of the best movesets a young wrestler can have. The potential was there, and it was fulfilled. Over the years he added more tools to his arsenal to the point where he's considered by many to be the best wrestler in the world right now. I certainly agree with that. One of the few guys I can think of who stayed equally compelling working the dumbed down WWE Style as they did in wherever they came from (Daniel Bryan being another).

    Samoa Joe
    Look: 9. Looks like he will fuck you up if you look at him the wrong way. Basically a mini-Yokozuna but more athletic and menacing.
    Promo: 6. Speaks with conviction and sounds about as menacing as he looks. Enough to be a pretty good heel promo, but he's never going to be a must-see speaker and it's unlikely he'll have a career-defining promo.
    In ring: 7. Similar to my comments about his promo: knows how to work consistently with his character, and he's very good at that, but he's missing something that puts him up there with the best. He has flashes of greatness, but just flashes.

    Christopher Daniels
    Look: 6. Originally gave him a 3 but Baker jogged my memory to when he had the evil priest gear. That was a good look.
    Promo: N/A
    In ring: 4. Always found him to be one of the most overrated of the ROH guys. Never saw anything special in his wrestling, but he has crisp execution and a good moveset. Even in his early ROH/TNA days I considered him to be the boring guy, but admittedly when you're surrounded by the likes of Danielson, Low Ki, AJ Styles, and Amazing Red, that's not so difficult. He kept up with them no problem, so perhaps my score is unfair, but I'm going to stick to my guns on this one.

    Austin Aries
    Look: 3. Unremarkable.
    Promo: 6. Like Joe. Pretty good, but nothing extraordinary.
    In ring: 5.

    Kevin Stowens
    Look: 2. The wrong kind of fat (contrast to Joe). Has a squashed face and his hair doesn't work for me either. At least he's got some reasonable attire. I mean, it's a bit on the tacky side, but it works for him.
    Promo: 7. Does smartass comedy pretty well. Also does serious/menacing pretty well. Good speaker. Can't imagine him working as a babyface though, so he drops points. If there's evidence to the contrary, I'd be interested to hear about it.
    In ring: 4. I get the impression that Owens has yet to find his niche. He seems to pride himself on the ability to do every move under the sun. His work lacks depth. I'd take a Samoa Joe, who knows his role and does it well, over a Kevin Owens type every day.

  17. #117
    American Ninja ShinobiMusashi's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    @thelist




    Rick Rude
    Look- 9
    Promo- 9
    In ring- 8.5

    Mr. Perfect
    Look - 9
    Promo- 8
    In ring- 8.5

    Jake Roberts
    Look- 8
    Promo- 10
    In ring- 7

    Ted DiBiase
    Look- 9
    Promo- 9
    In ring- 7.5

    Ricky Steamboat
    Look- 9
    Promo- 6.5
    In ring- 10

    Rude has got to be one of the most shredded pro wrestlers of all time. Always also loved the whole Dragon thing Steamboat had going on.

    Daniel Bryan
    Look- 6.5
    Promo- 7.5
    In ring- 10

    AJ Styles
    Look - 7.5
    Promo- 5
    In ring- 10

    Samoa Joe
    Look- 4
    Promo- 5
    In ring- 9

    Christopher Daniels
    Look- 6
    Promo- 7.5
    In ring- 8.5

    Austin Aries
    Look- 7.5
    Promo- 7.5
    In ring- 9

    Samoa Joe I can't put my thumb down on exactly why but there is just something that irks me about the way he looks and carries himself, him as a main event guy or a Taz/Goldberg style bad ass just does not work for me. With that said though he's great in the ring and he's been in some amazing matches.

    Edit: Kevin Owens
    Look: 8
    Promo: 9
    In Ring: 8.5

    Steen was one of the newer generation guys that impressed me when I first found out about him, he's got a gritty look that I like and is good on the stick. Also bumped Daniel Bryan in ring up a point, remember the Wrestlemania 30 matches, the Lance Storm match..
    Last edited by ShinobiMusashi; Yesterday at 11:48 PM.

  18. #118
    It's all in the reflexes Baker's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Quote Originally Posted by ShinobiMusashi View Post

  19. #119
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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post
    Somebody called thelist a troll, so I immediately ignored him. I haven't come across him really before. I'll add his grades tonight, though. All of them.
    ...sorry for the c comment lol... I know some think it was trolling but it's not i just dont care for Punk's promos... i know he's considered one of the greatest i get that but not someone i care to listen to.

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Daniel Bryan
    Look- 5
    Promo- 5
    In ring- 10. his lack in looks and promo skills made up for an awesome ring worker...

    AJ Styles
    Look - 6
    Promo- 7
    In ring- 10. simply phenomenal...

    Samoa Joe
    Look- 5
    Promo- 6
    In ring- 7

    Christopher Daniels
    Look- 4
    Promo- 5
    In ring- 5

    Austin Aries
    Look- 4
    Promo- 4
    In ring- 5

    Kevin Owens
    Look: 7
    Promo: 9
    In Ring: 7

  21. #121
    Fan Fiction Hall of Famer PB's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Daniel Bryan

    Look: 6
    At times he looked terrible and his look put me off him when I first came across him. But once he grew his hair a little longer (the shaved head was terrible) he actually looked pretty cool. Then once in the WWE he had great tights and kickpads and the beard helped get him over. So I feel like although he was very small and bland at times, his look ended up working in his favour and helping him get over.
    Promo: 8
    I think he's incredibly underrated on the mic and always has been. He shouts too much at times but can be incredibly effective.
    In-Ring: 10
    Probably my favourite wrestler of all time.

    AJ Styles

    Look: 6
    A lot better now than ever, but still looked pretty bland for the majority of his career.
    Promo: 6
    Above average overall but not by an awful lot.
    In-Ring: 9
    I feel like I may have him at a 10 by the end of his career as he's just getting better and better with age.

    Samoa Joe

    Look: 8
    Looks tough and different in an era and time when lean was the look. Cool tights and a great snarl.
    Promo: 7
    Again I think he's under rated. He has some real gems in his history.
    In-Ring: 8
    As good as you get without being top top tier.

    Christopher Daniels

    Look: 4
    Great attire wasn't enough to make up for being tiny and very slim. Probably the only thing that held him back from making in the the WWE.
    Promo: 8
    Really really good and able to be a face and heel well. Creative and has evolved a lot over the years.
    In-Ring: 8
    Has had so much success for so long for a reason. A great hand you can put in with anyone and he'll make it work.

    Austin Aries

    Look: 7
    Very small and his long hair never looked good, which is strange in wrestling. Bland tights as well but yet looked solid and cool, especially once he cut his hair.
    Promo: 7
    Maybe over rated but very capable and certainly able to carry himself in the main event.
    In Ring: 7
    I think Austin Aries is great but he seems lesser when compared to his contemporaries unfortunately. Really good but just not at that next level many others were at.

    Kevin Owens

    Look: 8
    Not the traditional wrestler look but that's why it works so well. He looks different, he looks arrogant, he looks like a heel.
    Promo: 10
    We haven't even touched the surface of his full abilities yet I don't think. Can do it all which is incredible considering English isn't his first language.
    In-Ring: 9
    Damn - I like Kevin Owens even more than I realised I have. Can brawl, can fly, can be technical, can tell great stories, can do spot fests, can get the crowd involved. There's very little he can't do.

    s u r r e n d e r

    ***Take part in PW's Match of the Year 2016 Tournament in the Wide World of Wrestling**
    http://forums.prowrestling.com/showt...53#post4407453

  22. #122
    American Ninja ShinobiMusashi's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Shit wrong thread, I thought I was in the ECW Greatest Wrestlers Countdown thread. Sorry.

  23. #123
    I feel kinda invincible Kilgore's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System


    AJ Styles: 22.9
    Bryan/Danielson: 21.8
    Owens/Steen: 20.3
    Austin Aries: 18
    Christopher Daniels: 18

    Scoring notes: There were two N/A's (Emperor on Daniels, Baker on Steen/Owens), so I split the difference with a 5.

    Thread will be on a hiatus for the WCW Countdown. I figure I'll give everybody the rest of the weekend and Monday to catch up.

    Final batch for now: Random WWF/E Champions (Whatever you consider their prime):

    Kurt Angle
    Edge
    Sheamus
    Seth Rollins
    Dean Ambrose
    Roman Reigns


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