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Thread: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

  1. #51
    I feel kinda invincible Kilgore's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Fine job, boys. Next batch will be Sunday night, so anybody that wants to catch up on the previous groups before then, tonight and the weekend should be a good time.


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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Slug View Post
    Can anybody give an example of a 1 in the Look department? Other than James Ellsworth?
    It's rare in mainstream wrestling. Maybe a Colin Delaney or Bastion Booger. Much more common in places like ECW (perhaps the Rottens and similar slobs or Mikey), ROH (Special K, Jack Evans, other regular teenage looking dudes in street clothes) and low level indies/old school territories.

    Bret Hart

    Look- 8.5- He just kept climbing. Not the biggest guy in the world but was always in good shape and had quality "wrestler's hair" as we called it back in the day. Made sunglasses and the pink & black his thing.

    Promos- 8- Pretty mediocre on the mic for most of his career, including early New Generation, with bland babyface-style promos, but stepped it up to be a 10/10 on the mic in 1997 by cutting some of the greatest, realest promos of all time. Actually.....his return in October '96 is probably where Great Promo Bret began.

    In Ring- 10- One of the greats.

    Shawn Michaels

    Look- 8- Much like Bret, Shawn was in good shape without being huge and had quality wrestler's hair. I also liked his boots.

    Promos- 7- Liked his cocky heel promos back in the day but his babyface promos as the top guy were nauseating. Did have a certain charisma on the mic though.

    In Ring- 10- Again, one of the greats.

    Diesel

    Look- 9- Tall and fairly well built with wrestler's hair and a nice silver & black color scheme. Made the black glove his thing at least for a little while.

    Promos- 7.5- Like the last two guys, cut much better promos as a heel. Gets an extra .5 for dropping an early (the first?) WWF pipebomb.

    In Ring- 6- Came off as intimidating and could be carried. Didn't do much but most of his stuff looked good. Made something as pedestrian as an attack in the corner into a signature thing.

    Razor Ramon

    Look: 9.5- Man, it's no wonder we called it "wrestler's hair." Razor was also tall and in good shape. Deserves credit for getting bright colors over as his thing despite being a badass. Something happens to da gold, something happens to you, chico.

    Promos: 9- Spoke entirely in catchphrases (seriously, the dude had almost as many as The Rock) with a fake accent. Somehow it worked.

    In Ring: 7- The anti-Rock in a way. His execution was fabulous yet he rarely had great/memorable matches. Razor was solid but unspectacular in the ring.

    Yokozuna

    Look: 7- Went all the way with the fatty look to the point where it actually became a detriment. Had memorable attire and made the bold decision to go barefoot. And on the rare occasions his bun got undone a fabulous mane of wrestler's hair was revealed.

    Promos: 1- Kind of unfair since he didn't cut any until very late in his career but it is what it is.

    In Ring: 6- A more extreme version of Razor. Yoko's offense looked killer. He knew when to shake the earth with a rare big bump. Great squasher but rarely (never?) had an actual great match. Also relied on the the most boring of moves, the nerve hold, entirely too often.
    Last edited by Baker; 05-22-2017 at 11:10 AM.

  3. #53
    The Wrestle-O-Pedia TheMaskedOtter's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post

    Steve Austin: 26.3
    The Rock: 24.7
    Mankind: 24.1
    Triple H: 23.4
    Undertaker: 22.1

    First bit of scoring controversy. Due to:


    -6 is not 0-10, so I couldn't count Otter's Mankind pick. Otter, if you want to change that to a zero, I'll update the score, and you can get a good laugh watching Foley nosedive in the standings.

    Next Batch: The New Generation:

    Bret Hart
    Shawn Michaels
    Diesel
    Razor Ramon
    Yokozuna
    Then give the man a zero.

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    The Wrestle-O-Pedia TheMaskedOtter's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    St. Bret D'Alberta, a man of such unquestioned purity even his bowels don't move for months at a time

    Look--7.

    Promos--5. Thick Canadian accent combined when the fact that he always sounded constipated. You would think if he so popular in Germany someone from the Fatherland could have helped him with that terrible Bavarian disorder....Farfrompoopin.

    In-Ring---7. He could go when he wanted to. But when I was an undergrad his matches became a drinking game as we tried to keep up with the shots as we called his moves at least 4 moves ahead.


    Shawn Michaels

    Look--8. When he got off the gas he went from being puffy to looking like he didn't legit weigh 160 pounds soaking wet.

    Promos--9. He could talk

    In-Ring--7.

    Diesel

    Look--8

    Promos--8

    In-Ring--2. As in his two big moves, whipping his hair back and throwing an elbow.


    Razor Ramon

    Look--8--Have to give credit to a white guy pulling off a stereotypical latino.

    Promos--5--Tony Danza had already done the "Hey Yo". Nothing worse than a copycat

    In-Ring---8....when he felt motivated.


    Yokozuna

    Look--6.57---Which I think was his legit weight by the end. If he had lived he could have starred on TLC

    Promos--0--He didn't talk.

    In-Ring--7---Was actually a pretty good athlete for being the size of Sable's left boob.

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMaskedOtter View Post
    St. Bret D'Alberta, a man of such unquestioned purity even his bowels don't move for months at a time

    ((I always fucking love this whenever you drop it in a post!))

    Yokozuna

    Promos--0--He didn't talk.
    Not true... BANZAI!!!!

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Promos--0--He didn't talk.
    Remember those old World War 2 movies?

    BONSAIIIIIII!!!

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    Senior Member The Icon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Quote Originally Posted by Baker View Post
    Promos- 7.5- Like the last two guys, cut much better promos as a heel. Gets an extra .5 for dropping an early (the first?) WWF pipebomb.
    When was this?

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    I feel kinda invincible Kilgore's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Maybe we should all reconsider Andre's promo ability, guys.



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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Quote Originally Posted by The Icon View Post
    When was this?
    Night after Survivor Series '95.

    http://www.wwe.com/videos/diesel-add...vember-20-1995

    It doesn't really hold up now because it's been done to death but this was groundbreaking stuff at the time. The 11/20/95 Raw (also featuring Shawn's collapse) and this Diesel rant (leading to the first WWF tweener run) were very Attitude Era-ish. It had my clique buzzing for weeks. Think this was the most obvious they had ever been about Vince being The Boss. They hinted at it once or twice during Flair's "Real World Champion" run but you had to be in the know to read between the lines and Young Baker remained as oblivious as ever.

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    Senior Member MV's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Quote Originally Posted by Baker
    Night after Survivor Series '95.

    http://www.wwe.com/videos/diesel-add...vember-20-1995

    It doesn't really hold up now because it's been done to death but this was groundbreaking stuff at the time. The 11/20/95 Raw (also featuring Shawn's collapse) and this Diesel rant (leading to the first WWF tweener run) were very Attitude Era-ish. It had my clique buzzing for weeks. Think this was the most obvious they had ever been about Vince being The Boss. They hinted at it once or twice during Flair's "Real World Champion" run but you had to be in the know to read between the lines and Young Baker remained as oblivious as ever.
    Saw a clip from a Kevin Nash shoot recently and it hinted at ideas for Diesel having Stone Cold-esque character. Mixed in was part of this video but this was my first time seeing the whole thing. Appreciate you sharing.

  11. #61
    I feel kinda invincible Kilgore's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System


    Bret Hart: 24.3 (24.31)
    Shawn Michaels: 24.3 (24.25)
    Razor Ramon: 23.9
    Diesel: 20.4
    Yokozuna: 13.7


    Next Batch: WCW All Stars

    Sting:
    Lex Luger:
    Goldberg:
    DDP:
    Big Van Vader:


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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Sting

    Look- 9- Colorful surfer Stinger with the muscles worked for that era and the darker Crow Sting worked for a later era. Loses one point for getting out of shape late in his career.

    Promos- 4- And that might be generous. Was corny (in a bad way) without the natural speaking ability of a Hogan when he was face of the company.

    In Ring- 7.5- Very unselfish with good babyface fire and a nice mix of power and speed moves. Often went above and beyond the call of duty, especially in big matches, but could also be lazy at times.

    Lex Luger

    Look- 10- There's a reason he got The Narcissist gimmick.

    Promos- 4- Could be awful but also cut some solid heel promos over the years. Not a natural speaker though.

    In Ring- 6- A tough one. Has a surprisingly long list of good/great matches as both a heel & face but also suffers from Rock syndrome where most of his stuff, even in his better matches, looked like crap. Also had a bunch of duds. It's interesting to note that burgeoning smark 95-96 me viewed Lex as a possible workrate guy. Somebody on PWO or a similar place made the same observation due to Lex working more than once on 4 consecutive pay per views. Pretty crazy.

    Goldberg

    Look- 10- Pulled off The Steve Austin better than Steve Austin. Looked like a wrecking machine. And then he went out and wrecked people.

    Promos- 2 (incomplete?)- Did Goldberg even cut promos? I gave him one point for coming up with a catchphrase.

    In Ring- 7- Look, 90% of his matches were squashes and Goldberg was an all time great squasher. Had great intensity and killer offense. Then there was the miracle DDP match. WCW booked him very well. Heymanesque, even.

    DDP

    Promos- 5- Had the overly enthusiastic always on 10 babyface Hulk Hogan thing going on. Not really my style but I suppose it worked well enough for him.

    Look- 2- Awful look. So trashy. Not much of a physique either. Think his bad look is one of the reasons it took me so long to get into DDP. Gets a point for being tall. His pants were also pretty cool.

    In Ring- 8- The hardest working big name main eventer in latter day WCW. Got the Diamond Cutter over huge.

    Vader

    Look- 8- Was more husky than fat. Looked pretty badass but that stupid mask is a detriment imo.

    Promos- 3- Generic 80s style shouty stuff.

    In Ring- 9- Killer offense. Big bumper for a super heavyweight. Had some great matches and killer squashes.

  13. #63
    Big Pimpin' Big Pete's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Sting (1988-94)
    Look - 8. Good physique albeit a little generic. 'Crow Sting' was his peak look with '96-97 being my favourite.
    Promo - 5. Sting really didn't become a good promo until TNA where he actually knocked it out of the park on several occasions. Good fire, but the content was pretty lacking and he was one of the worst written top babyfaces of all time.
    In-Ring - 7. Green, but was very athletic for a guy his size and worked some quality matches.

    Lex Luger (1988-92)
    Look - 8. Even better physique than the Stinger, but always had a resting asshole face.
    Promo - 5. Had his moments, but was limited in what he could knock out of the park and could be a marble mouth if the role didn't suit him.
    In-Ring - 8. Technically a better Sting, who just got lazier when a couple of old stars told him to invest more in his body than taking bumps.

    Goldberg (1997-2001)
    Look - 9. The guy looked like a killer from the get go. Loses a point for his plain attire.
    Promo - 3. Wasn't his strong suit and would always get his arse handed to him in the war of the words. However, his acting was surprisingly decent and Bill has always surprised me with how eloquent he is. I recently heard some of his promos for the Jan 4 1999 Nitro and he was surprisingly good during that ridiculous Liz sexual assault fiasco.
    In-Ring - 5. Showed potential and was good in his role, but I wouldn't call him a ring general.

    Diamond Dallas Page (1995-2001)
    Look - 6. Always looked scruffy which worked for the Jersey persona he had but wasn't going to appeal to the masses.
    Promos - 6. Very cliched, but I dug his attitude and he had some good back and forths, especially later on in his career.
    In-Ring - 7. The hardest working main event guy in WCW. Technically wasn't great and everything looked very choreographed, but couldn't fault him on his effort.

    Vader (1990-95)
    Look - 7. Actually thought the mask was good since it disguised his age.
    Promos - 3.
    In-Ring - 8. He would have been a bitch to work with, but as a fan I could watch Vader matches all day.

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    In saying that, I thought this was an awesome look.


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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Generally echo Baker despite disagreeing (or just being more generous) on Goldberg's promos and Vader's mask and promos. Doing these in-depth on my phone at work is so much harder than I want it to be, so here are my quick score...

    Sting
    L: 9
    P: 4
    IR: 7.5

    Luger
    L: 9.5 (-0.5 for boring ring attire)
    P: 4
    IR: 6 (ooomph!)

    Goldberg
    L: 10
    P: 4 (there's evidence out there of him talking during his WCW run, and it's no worse than Sting or Luger's stuff IMO)
    IR: 9 (convincingly real in an era when kayfabe was as dead as dead gets)

    DDP
    L: 4
    P: 6
    IR: 8

    Vader
    L: 9.5 (+0.5 for iconic mask)
    P: 4 (like Brock, his sit-down interviews are where he excelled when it came to promo work)
    IR: 9.5 (perhaps overrating a bit, but offense as realistic as Goldberg's and moveset including a 400-lb. moonsault and pwerbomb is hard not to overrate)

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Sting
    Look: 9. The Crow look is brilliant. Dropping a point for him not having the greatest (but still good) physique.
    Promo: 7. Not seen much of his WCW stuff, but I've seen some of his TNA promos that are generally above average (and one fantastic promo). He's not the most charismatic promo but he has conviction and he's a good talker.
    In ring: 6. Not seen any evidence that he's anything above average in the ring (not that I'm a great authority on the matter), but he has some classic matches.

    Goldberg
    Look: 8. Austin minus cool attire.
    Promo: 4. Basing this on his most recent WWE run. Surprisingly eloquent is a good way of putting it. I don't even know if he cut promos in WCW or his first WWE run
    In ring: 6. Limited (although less than people think he is), but he's excellent and what he did. Even though he did very similar things most match, his explosiveness and natural charisma meant he got monster reactions every single match.

    Big Van Vader
    Look: 7. Physically imposing because of height, girth, and mask, but the lack of clear muscle mass/muscle definition costs him a few points.
    Promo: N/A. No idea. Did he talk?
    In ring: 8. I'm not enamored by the guy in the ring but he had a great presence, looked convincing and had an amazing moveset for such a large man.

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    Senior Member The Icon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Sting- Total: 21.75

    Look: 9- As said docked a half point for getting out of shape later but early Sting is the prototype for a top babyface.

    Promo: 5.5- Early on it was a struggle but he did get better just on speaking ability. He didn't have anything really memorable to speak on however.

    In- Ring: 7.25- Could exchange holds with guys like Flair effectively, use high flying moves and could overpower guys like Vader. Best all around in ring super-face that I've seen from the modern era, that is until his comeback in 1997.

    Lex Luger- Total: 20

    Look: 10- Probably still the best physique of all time, add in the long blonde hair and promoters saw $$$'s.

    Promo: 4- Talked like he had a mouth full of marbles at times and stumbled over his words. Still could pull off the odd effective heel promo though which was an extension of his natural personality.

    In-Ring: 6- Pre-accident he was passable in all aspects but still looked rather clumsy at times. His shouty selling got annoying overtime as well.

    Goldberg- Total: 24.5

    Look: 10- A larger than life version of Austin which was perfect for the late 90's. Also a good mean mug.

    Promo: 7- Didn't really need to talk as the rest of his body language spoke for him. "Who's Next?" fit his character perfectly so I'm not going to penalize him too hard.

    In-Ring: 7.5- Great squasher and when given time had a nice arsenal of moves. Even his selling hit the right notes for how strong he was being portrayed, everything just seem to stun him.

    DDP- Total: 19

    Look: 4- The sleazy look suited his heel character but he could have changed it up a bit once he turned face (not sure when he got his haircut.) Needed shirts to mask his non-descript physique which isn't ideal for most people.

    Promo: 8- Good intensity, good catchphrase and good insults. One of WCW's most charismatic talkers of the 90's.

    In Ring: 7- Turned into a really good worker, he pulled off all of those Diamond Cutter variations with ease.

    Vader- Total: 24.5

    Look: 9.5- I wasn't completely sold on the jockstrap mask but he looked like the big bully on the block.

    Promo: 7- I never realized how underrated Vader is in this department, awesome trash talker. His intensity just amplified how fearsome he was. He definitely was no slouch on the mic.

    In-Ring: 8- Sold effectively as to not look entirely weak, crushing offense and amazing agility. He's the total package for a big man.

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    Senior Member The Icon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Steve Austin- Total: 26.5

    Look: 9- Gave him an extra point for being a trendsetter and his look is so iconic. His vest said it all "BMF."

    Promo: 10- He really captured the audiences attention whether it would be a profanity laced "whoop ass" promo or dabbling in comedy.

    In-Ring: 7.5- Great brawler, would have had higher marks if it weren't for the neck injury.

    The Rock- Total: 26.5

    Look: 9.5- Solid but not outstanding physique, his sense of fashion from the era hasn't stood the test of time either.

    Promo: 10- Basically lifted Austin's material and amplified it x10. In the conversation for GOAT on the mic.

    In-Ring: 7- Had this been 15 years ago he would have just scraped by with a passing grade. He was a good athlete and could tell a story like very few could which I appreciate more now. Some of his execution is still left wanting though.

    Mankind- Total: 17.5

    Look: 2- Got worse as time went on as his "corporate look" masked his scars. That mask was ugly as sin.

    Promo: 8.5- Wasn't able to fully flourish as the Mankind character but had his moments such as the Jim Ross interviews and his work with the Rock.

    In-Ring: 7- Still could bump and sell with the best of them but the rest of his skills deteriorated as time went on.

    Triple H- Total: 20.5

    Look: 8.25- Had more of a "puffy" look during the Attitude Era, the big honker and lack of facial hair at times made him look worse.

    Promo: 6- Always supplied intensity but would drone on and was rather boring. I didn't fully buy his comedy act in DX either.

    In-Ring: 6.25- Perhaps he was limited by WWF match structure but how many punches and kicks can you stand from this most mediocre of brawlers? He had a little more variety in the early days of the Attitude Era and had a higher pacing to his matches.

    Undertaker- Total: 23.5

    Look: 9.5- I wasn't crazy about his attire during the Attitude Era but he still brought the sense of spectacle and intimidation like very few.

    Promo: 6.75- His character was able to branch out a little more and he took advantage by making his character connect on a more human level. You could take his menacing character a little more seriously.

    In-Ring: 7.25- Also got to take the chains of the more zombified aspect of his character in the ring and became a more exciting worker to watch. Adding selling to his repertoire helped matters as well.
    Last edited by The Icon; 05-23-2017 at 01:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Sting,
    Look: 8
    Promo: 7
    In ring: 7

    Lex Luger
    Look: 10, Body of a Greek God.
    Promo: 5
    In ring: 5

    Vader
    Look: 7
    Promo: 4, Mostly yelling.
    In ring: 9, One of the best Big men ever. Doing Moonsaults at 420+ pounds is fucking insane. His offense looked painful and stiff which I loved.

    DDP
    Look: 5
    Promo: 8
    In ring 7.5, Had a pretty good moveset and of course the Diamond Cutter being one of the best finishers ever.
    Austin Aries> CM Punk

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    Senior Member Da Gr8t I Is's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post
    Maybe we should all reconsider Andre's promo ability, guys.

    That my friend was epic lol

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System


    WCW All Stars:

    Sting: 21.2
    Big Van Vader: 21.1
    Goldberg: 20.3
    Lex Luger: 20.1
    DDP: 18.3

    Next Batch: The OVW Generation:

    Brock Lesnar:
    John Cena:
    Randy Orton:
    Batista:
    CM Punk:
    Last edited by Kilgore; 05-23-2017 at 05:40 PM.


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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Brock Lesnar
    Look: 10. He's a monster.
    Promo: 3.
    In ring: 9. Super fast, super strong, can do a ton of stuff in the ring (even if he doesn't show it nowadays), and is one of the very best sellers IMO.

    John Cena
    Look: 9. Tempted to dock a point for the jorts/sneakers, but Cena stuck with it and made it work to the point where it isn't lame anymore (at least not to me). I did dock a point for having a bit of a pretty boy look. He has a perfect body but lacks the sort of rugged pro wrestler face that guys like Hogan and Austin have. A bit too clean cut.
    Promo: 10. Might have given him a 9 or even an 8 if it wasn't for his 2016/7 run where he cut some of the best promos of his career and some of my favourites of all time.
    In ring: 8. Loses a point for his physical awkwardness/lack of athleticism, loses another point for his generally lousy offense (especially for a top face), but he's pretty much perfect in every other aspect of the game. Selling, storytelling, adapting to different opponents, evolving his style. For what it's worth, his ring work from 2015 to now is no more than a 5. His indyriffic style doesn't work at all for me.

    Randy Orton
    Look: 8. JBL often says "If god were to create a pro-wrestler, he would look like Randy Orton." I can see where he's coming from, Orton looks about as good as a tall/lean pro-wrestler can look. But he's not really larger than life, and his attire is unremarkable. Looks like a top tier athlete, but not more than that. A pro-wrestler needs something a little extra to get to the 9-10 range.
    Promo: 4. Not terrible, but certainly below average.
    In ring: 6. His prolonged status at the top has exposed him for a wrestler who mastered one style and milked it to death, never changing or evolving his ring work. He's stagnant, and has been for a very long time. That might be more durable if you have a flashy/exciting style, but outside of his finisher, Orton's style is the opposite. If anything he's devolved since his prime in the late 2000s.

    Batista
    Look: 6. Has a great physique, but I was never sold on him as a killer monster as I was for Goldberg or Taker or Lesnar. Aside from his body, he's very unremarkable.
    Promo: 7. Above average, bordering on great, heel promo. Bland as a face.
    In ring: 5. Decent speed for man of his size. Great power offense. Enough to get by as a top WWE monster. Nothing more.

    CM Punk
    Look: 7. Short, not a great body. But he stands out from the pack. His tattoos, his attire, his facial hair, his permanent chip-on-his-shoulder expression. He catches the eye. These things work in Punk's favour.
    Promo: 10. Had to convince myself to knock that 9 up to a 10, but I think he deserves it. Has at least one GOAT promo, and his average promo is better than most people's best promos. Great voice, eloquent speaker.
    In ring: 5. I think Punk is overrated in the ring. He's nothing special. Has a decent enough moveset, but he's pretty clumsy and he's not really great at a single aspect of working.

  23. #73
    Man with a Plan Ness's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    LESNAR

    Look: 7 - It's weird, he's basically Eddie BROCK. Like I could honestly see him being Bane or some other jacked fictional badass. But at the same time in wrestling I can't say his look is too iconic. I dunno middle here.

    Promo: 5 - His sit-down interview stuff (blood, sweat and urine) stuff is really good shit. And his original run had some gems like his famous Eddy one. So while not great, he has done some good. Obviously not since the Heyman repairing.

    Ring: 8 - He's a specimen. I know it's not really special in 2017 to have an agile big man who "moves like a CW" because honestly if you don't... why are you even here? But in 2002 it was quite special. Brock has had some classics, mostly in his first run mind you.

    CENA

    Look: 8 - It's cringey at times, but you cannot deny that even casuals could probably pick him out among other wrestlers. It also helps that until Ambrose came along he was basically the only guy who wrestled in regular clothes. Serious... why does he do that?

    Promo: 9 - I don't believe in perfect 10's. Sorry Tye. Like even the most beautiful woman in the world would be a 9 to me. 10 is fiction. One of the best mic workers in the business.

    Ring: 8 - He's not perfect. Sometimes he can be rather uncoordinated and that STFU... but overall he's a great worker. At this point he's basically 2nd Run HBK. Whatever he's doing, it's gonna be good.

    ORTON

    Look: 7 - Obviously the prototype from the FCW era. 3 T's... tall, tanned and tattooed. That actually takes a few points off for me since it's not unique. But I get it, he looks like a wrestler.

    Promo: 5 - His early stuff was quite good. RNN, Legend Killer, etc. After that, not so much.

    Ring: 6 - Fundamentally he's good, but he lacks something. It's a mystery. He's always incredibly over, but it never feels like he ever connects in the ring outside of a finish. Can you name 10 Orton classics? I can get about half-way.

    BATISTA

    Look: 8 - Was pushed for it originally. Granted unlike Brock is was more showy than legit strength, but presentation he was the guy.

    Promo: 6 - His later stuff with the spotlight and turning on Rey was fantastic. But going on his whole career?

    Ring: 7 - I think he had more great matches than Randy. Blame it on the opponent or perhaps because he was given the chance to be the man unlike Randy who was never really in the spotlight for long. I really liked his match with Taker @ WM. For my money this was the first really good streak match once it became a "thing".

    PUNK

    Look: 6 - Didn't have the best body, but unlike someone overweight like Dusty I couldn't always buy him as a badass. Sorry Nash was kinda right. Not gonna say I could take him because that's Internet Tough Guy nonsense.

    Promo: 9 - One of the best. Post ROH title win, THIS IS STRAIGHT EDGE, Pipe Bomb, Boxing with God... yeah.

    Ring: 7 - His ring work was never what won me over. I wanna believe it wasn't why he was signed. Outside of the trilogy with Joe I don't think people were talking about his matches. His personality and charisma though. That said he still had a lot of good-great matches in his career.

  24. #74
    Senior Member

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Brock Lesnar

    Look- 9- Obviously jacked but something was missing to give him the perfect ten even before he started wearing those stupid shorts. Perhaps he needed a signature thing like Rock had the Brahma Bull?

    Promos- 2- The only Brock promo I even remember was the awesome sports entertainmenty one on Eddie towards the end of his first run.

    In Ring- 8- While he's more well-versed than these guys, I don't enjoy his suplex game nearly as much as I did with Taz & The Steiners.

    John Cena

    Look- 6- Jacked but the jorts & sneakers look is so bush-league. He's also maybe a little too clean cut. He looks too much like a regular guy who just happens to be huge. Did pop for the old school jerseys back in his Dr. of Thuganomics days....but that was 15 years ago now.

    Promos- 5- Very much an early 90s babyface......25 years after such a thing went out of style. Again, was gold in his Dr. of Thuganomics days....but that was 15 years ago.

    In Ring- 7- Most certainly does not suck in ring. Glad most of the world has finally realized that. But he is flawed with lousy offense being his biggest detriment.

    Orton

    *I was so tempted to give the blandest man who ever lived straight fives because it would just be so Randy Orton but I'm gonna do this for real....

    Look- 6- What Emp said but I'm harsher with my grading.

    Promos- 3- His monotone promos make me think he'd have made a great accountant. RNN was cool though. Tfw you realized this class peaked in 2002-03.....and is still on top 15 years later.

    In Ring- 6- Much like his look, competent without being memorable. I might have to take @Ness up on the Ten Randy Orton Classics challenge. Don't think I'd get there.

    Batista

    Look- 9- Much like Brock, jacked but something is missing there. Needed a little bit of flair or a signature symbol to put him over the top. Did rock the suit better than most though.

    Promos- 7- What?!? Yeah, I've long been a proponent of Batista on the mic. Something about his calm, cool style worked for me.

    In Ring- 6- Very hit or miss. Could be good at the right veteran opponent (HHH/Taker), had good intensity, and would occasionally have enjoyable random tv matches with guys like MVP, Elijah Burke & Dolph Ziggler, but also had his share of laziness and duds. I have this weird feeling that Batista will be a cult favorite to the PWO-types of the future.

    CM Punk

    Look- 3- Never shed that indy look. Kind of tall and unmuscular. He didn't look like a WWE superstar.

    Promos- 9.5- Probably the best promo of the modern era but he did have his occasional cringey moments.

    In Ring- 7.5- Sloppy and unathletic, but also smart and versatile. I'm more familiar with Punk's indie stuff where he had good 'technical' matches with Joe and perhaps even better brawls with the likes of Jimmy Rave and Whitmer & Maff, of all people, though he did have his share of duds even back then. As somebody who was around when Punk was coming up, he actually did first gain fame for 'good matches' on the indie circuit, meaning he wrestled Chris Hero in a bunch of matches that went 40 minutes too long.

  25. #75
    American Ninja ShinobiMusashi's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bret Hart's 30 Point Grading System

    Sting:
    Look: 10
    Promo: 6
    In Ring: 8

    Lex Luger:
    Look: 8
    Promo: 6
    In Ring: 7

    Goldberg:
    Look: 10
    Promo: 4
    In Ring: 8

    DDP:
    Look: 8
    Promo: 7
    In Ring: 8

    Big Van Vader:
    Look: 10
    Promo: 7
    In Ring: 9

    Brock Lesnar:
    Look: 10
    Promo: 3
    In Ring: 8

    John Cena:
    Look: 7
    Promo: 6
    In Ring: 8

    Randy Orton:
    Look: 6
    Promo: 2
    In Ring: 5

    Batista:
    Look: 8
    Promo: 6
    In Ring: 6

    CM Punk:
    Look: 8
    Promo: 9
    In Ring: 7

    If they ever make another Mortal Kombat movie they need to put an extra pair of CGI arms on Brock Lesnar and cast him as Goro.

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