Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 58

Thread: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

  1. #26
    COYG Todd's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Wales
    Age
    26
    Posts
    15,858
    vCash
    2000
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    Hang on, what am I reading? That if you enjoyed the Attitude era you're depraved?

  2. #27
    The Boss The Show's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Age
    25
    Posts
    9,538
    vCash
    2008
    Mentioned
    61 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    Hang on, what am I reading? That if you enjoyed the Attitude era you're depraved?
    Seriously, it's that same type of bullshit elitist attitude that most people condemn Attitude Era supporters for having.

    It's hard to call arguably the most profitable era of wrestling the worst ever. Also, everyone is blindly ignoring a great point made by @L.T.D:

    Bringing back the attitude era doesn't necessarily mean they have to bring back all of the over the top storylines, half naked women and all of that. But they could certainly use that time period as a blueprint of how to get people over and better utilise talent.
    I think this is a great middle ground for Attitude Era supporters and detractors.

    All credit goes to surrender!

  3. #28
    COYG Todd's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Wales
    Age
    26
    Posts
    15,858
    vCash
    2000
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    The Attitude era had all-time highs, not only from an objective ratings/revenue viewpoint but also subjectively. Character development, storyline depth, and memorable moments - this is the all time #1 era in those categories. I prefer others purely from a wrestling perspective but the Attitude era, for whatever bad it brought to the table, had so much good.

  4. #29
    is Joy. whocares's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Taxes
    Age
    35
    Posts
    37,366
    vCash
    2000
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    Hang on, what am I reading? That if you enjoyed the Attitude era you're depraved?
    Of course.



    Just look at all those depraved people enjoying some dancing. Degenerates!

    I do miss when the crowds used to just be into the shows.

  5. #30
    Senior Member Mad Dog Smith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    2,322
    vCash
    2000
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    Attitude era was better because of the characters and storylines. Everyone in the midcard had something to do. Even if they weren't being pushed they were given opportunity to GET pushed.

    That's why the attitude era was better, if you wanna talk about PG Vs. TV14 that's a different argument all together.

    Though in my mind, bringing back the half naked women would be welcomed as well. Hell, it's a more progressive age, throw in some half naked men in there, I dont' give a fuck!

    Life's a buffet. You only gonna eat the Shrimp?

  6. #31
    Senior Member nath45's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    806
    vCash
    2442
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    Quote Originally Posted by L.T.D View Post
    Bringing back the attitude era doesn't necessarily mean they have to bring back all of the over the top storylines, half naked women and all of that. But they could certainly use that time period as a blueprint of how to get people over and better utilise talent.
    Very true. But a large part of the product relied on those over the top storylines, half naked women, shock-value and pushing the limits of decency to get over. And a lot of this stuff was still being booked into the early to mid 2000s mind you - John Cena launch his career off this. Hot Lesbian Action. Katie Vick - Anything to do with Kane really. The Bra and Panty matches were so regular, you'd think it was a real division. Wedding after wedding. Live Sex celebrations.

    If not these elements - we're just asking for a better product.

    One point, I've argued against since almost 2005 is the need for a brand split. Yes, it gives opportunity to guys who wouldn't necessarily get one - but that's the issue. WWE regularly pushed inexperienced workers, undeveloped characters and called people up without rhyme or rhythm because they had achieved as much as they could in development - only to release them months later.

    This severely dilutes the quality of the product and it's still happening today - Jinder was a jobber 2 months ago, now he's No.1 Contender. If they took everything good on Raw and everything good on Smackdown and it was on one show - the overall product would be better. I'm sitting here watching a Smackdown replay - Breezango just beat The Ascension - no one cared. Mojo was in some pointless segment backstage, then Rusev cut a promo via his cell phone. That's 20 minutes of crap.

    And the one thing that is never discussed around here, is the fact the entire industry during the late 1990s expanded far beyond the walls of the WWF - WCW built an audience to eclipse anything the WWF was capable of at that point and it was the WWF who took it off them with an eventual better product. And in a lot of ways, the WWF didn't create new talent - it took those who had already been established to a degree in WCW - Big Show, Jericho, Benoit, Eddie. The Dudleyz, Tazz from ECW, and interwove them with the WWF. Development wasn't necessarily a focus of the Attitude Era.

    The only take away I would utilise from the Attitude Era is the actual wrestling side of it. Today's wrestling, in the WWE and around the world is often so convoluted in detail and idiosyncrasies, when just some fasted paced brawling and two guys throwing bombs would get a much larger reaction.

  7. #32
    Senior Member MV's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,040
    vCash
    2000
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    No. You can't reproduce the magic of the Attitude Era. WWE pushed the envelope far as you can go. And I definitely wouldn't want the wrestling quality.

  8. #33
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    124
    vCash
    2000
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    Only legitimate reason I've seen.
    it also the most entertaining era and an era where everyone up and down the roster actually had something to do than just have matches

  9. #34
    Still Relevant! Ness's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Age
    32
    Posts
    25,727
    vCash
    2050
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    That was probably the problem. They weren't booking the slobs in matches, so they got into mischief backstage.

  10. #35
    Darth Vader Stinks Cobain.'s Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,798
    vCash
    2000
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    It seems the cool thing to do is hate the Attitude Era when it was actually damn good. They shouldn't bring it back even if they wanted to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Takerfan4life
    Cobain I have respect for because he does have great mind when it comes to wrestling
    WOOOOOOOO!

  11. #36
    Senior Member RIH's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    726
    vCash
    2000
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    It would never be the attitude era, even if they went to an edgier product. The attitude era was a reflection of the late 90's/early 90's. The product and style of wrestling is different now. Back then, there was a lot more emphasis on characters and backstage skits. Nowadays, there is much more emphasis on in-ring ability.

    I think it would be cool to go back to more edgier product, but it would still have to reflect the wrestlers nowadays. A lot of things that happened back then simply wouldn't work nowadays. Think about when the WWE brings back attitude era stars. The only time it works when the wrestlers are able to re-invent themselves, such as Chris Jericho. When they bring back stars from the past and they are doing the same thing they were back then, such as The Dudley Boyz or The New Age Outlaws, it doesn't work anymore. The wrestlers nowadays still have to be able to pull of edgier content. Another thing to think about is that Vince has to watch what he puts on TV much more than he did back then.

    Instead of just saying "let's go back to the attitude era", they have to say that they need to keep up with the times. If they put on edgier content, they still have to keep up with the times. For some reason, I don't think something like a Hardcore Championship would work nowadays, but I do think they should allow the wrestlers to have more freedom on the microphone. There are things I think they could do differently. I'd like to see more matches end with interference or weapons/cheating from the heels. The heels don't cheat anymore and that's something else I think they need to change.

    Do I think they should go back to the attitude era? No, but there are elements from the era that I think they could bring back.

  12. #37
    L.T.D Edition L.T.D's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    2,438
    vCash
    2000
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    I was watching the WWE 24 episode on Finn Balor yesterday and began to find myself liking him more and more just seeing more of him and learning more about who he is, I'd like to see more back story on some of the superstars we have today as I feel it can do a lot for them. It reminds me of the series of interviews Mick Foley did with Jim Ross in summer 1997, it did wonders for him at the time just learning about who he is. It's one of the reasons people enjoy Talking Smack so much.

    "Did you hear the one about the man, who can't be destroyed?"

  13. #38
    Moderately Moderating Michinokudriver's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    San Francisco
    Age
    34
    Posts
    10,892
    vCash
    2000
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    Quote Originally Posted by nath45 View Post
    For some reason or another, the WWE, or wrestling in general has been a targeted and held to a different standard when other television hasn't. Despite something like Game of Thrones, etc being more explicit. You could argue, that the WWE is still viewed as primarily geared towards children, and any outrage in regards to it's content is justified to an extent.

    On the Tea-Party angle :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwVEYS4mskM

    Wayne Keown and Jacob Hager having to explain the difference between wrestling and it's characters and real life. For some reason or another, outsiders, usually political or social warriors will criticize wrestling as being ' fake ' then conveniently fail to understand the concept of someone playing a character within a television show. The Tea-Party angle, it had it's detractors primarily from right-wing commentators, while the left saw it straight up racist.
    I remember that one, and it was kinda weird because it was (like you said) Glenn Beck ranting about how WWE characters were making fun of a movement. I haven't watched South Park in years but I'm sure they did a Tea Party parody and the same people were up in arms for the same reasons. I don't think they were treated to a different standard, I think (though haven't looked too closely into it) all shows were held to this ridiculous 'no one can make fun of us' standard by the TP. The only difference here is that WWE, for whatever reason, decided to respond to rather than ignore it.

    Quote Originally Posted by nath45 View Post
    Then there's GLAAD, who got their panties in a twist when the Billy & Chuck angle turned out to be a publicity stunt to get over.
    And again, after this GLAAD will be reluctant to trust WWE, because the company has failed to prove itself capable of handling sensitive topics. Darren Young is the first gay character they've had* that isn't a gay-panic character and that's only because someone else outed the man behind the gimmick.

    the character himself has not been declared to be gay, though they're not exactly denying it either

    Quote Originally Posted by nath45 View Post
    Then there's the recently released FCC complaints -

    https://melmagazine.com/there-are-a-...g-129708881d6f

    “Rusev and his manager” are committing terrorism by “bad mouthing America” and pulling down the American flag. Requests that the FCC make the WWE “change their story line according to the laws.”

    “WWE is impersonating police officers and it was recorded during the live show.” - Unlike in the later complaint, there’s no ostensible awareness of pro wrestling being fiction.

    One person complained - Dean Ambrose was assaulted by members of the authority” - to the FCC. Yes.

    “Very graphic viewing of false interpretation of religious practices” that was “striking fear in elderly neighbors women and children in the community.” - Sent from Berkeley, California, stereotypical liberal college town.

    Complaints against the use of the term - “five-knuckle shuffle”

    Complaints against The New Day Day - “out on Television gyrating their pelvic area while wearing pants that are tight in the crotch leaving nothing to the imagination.”

    And this is the problem today - hypersensitivity and this instant outrage. And for some reason or another, people fail to see the WWE and wrestling is a circus of exaggeration, magnification and exasperation. It's over the top, it's vaudeville, it's wacky, it's cheesy, it's professional wrestling, it's meant to get a reaction - either positive or negative.

    Yet today in 2017, JBL made one mention of ISIS and people called for his head, they cried in corners and demanded his release. Over the top hypersensitivity - yet Goldust wrestled in blackface in 1998. Think about that.

    I seriously doubt people today could handle the WWF Attitude era, despite overall it not really being that offensive. If anything you should be offended by the fact half the shows during that era relied on garbage shock value and crash television to get a reaction. The WWF attitude era was the company's teenage years - brass, cocky, with a fuck you attitude - funnily enough, the WWE didn't change all that much through the early 2000s from its acclaimed Attitude era, instead the jokes got old, people had seen it before, and the stars that made that era work, had moved on.
    Yeah, but I was talking about sustained campaigns to take GoT off the air, not one-off nutjobs. I'm sure somewhere out there a person is decrying Mr. Rogers as a moral cancer on America, and there were a few oddballs who wanted to ban Harry Potter for paganism but it wasn't really a thing. It's a bit disingenuous to point to the one guy complaining about Breaking Bad and going "welp, looks like a nation of snowflakes."

    Which is venturing pretty far away from my original point, which is that it's not necessarily PC culture backlash preventing WWE from tackling modern problems and issues, it's that no one has any faith in them to do so in a respectful way. You originally mentioned 'can you imagine a WWE superstar drugging and taking advantage of a female character' which straight up happened -- HHH marrying Steph -- and it was played largely for laughs. WWE could have done a BLM-style angle with a few of the guys on their roster, but I have zero trust in their ability to tackle it with any real nuance or understanding of the topic.

    Nominee: PW's Most Knowledgeable Poster, 2006
    Co-winner: PW's Most Knowledgeable Nerd, 2006

  14. #39
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Bogotá, Colombia
    Posts
    1
    vCash
    500
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    Everything is a cycle and I don't only refer to wrestling. Of course it will return one day to a similar Attitude Era just as today we are watching a type of wrestling more similar to the one of the commercial wrestling beginnings in the sense that it is more focused in reality and have very basic storylines and they don't pay attention anymore to gimmicks and not breaking kayfabe, mostly due to social media. Once this gets unpopular (more unpopular I should say) in some years WWE will probably try to perfectly simulate the Attitude Era since it won't be relatively recent and a lot of the fanbase didn't experienced that phase. Wrestling, as the rest of the things that characterize certain period of time, just work in function of how people in that time think and act. Two years ago the Political Correctness thing was at its peak and it was unbearable and WWE was a reflect of that, I believe this PC attitude will eventually transform as year pass (we can even see hints of that happening) and so will WWE. For this to happen TV and popular culture must, as well, do even more irreverent things than what happened at the end of the 90s which marked this world's iconic Era we all remember. That's my theory, this and the fact that it was in a primitive form and people tend to love more things that came first. So it will return but just until Attitude Era seems new to the fans which will be in many years, if we really think this is how the world has been working since the last 100 years, it's all about trends and repetition of trends but adapted to modern concepts.

  15. #40
    Senior Member nath45's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    806
    vCash
    2442
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michinokudriver View Post
    Which is venturing pretty far away from my original point, which is that it's not necessarily PC culture backlash preventing WWE from tackling modern problems and issues, it's that no one has any faith in them to do so in a respectful way. You originally mentioned 'can you imagine a WWE superstar drugging and taking advantage of a female character' which straight up happened -- HHH marrying Steph -- and it was played largely for laughs. WWE could have done a BLM-style angle with a few of the guys on their roster, but I have zero trust in their ability to tackle it with any real nuance or understanding of the topic.
    ' A WWE superstar drugging and taking advantage of a female character' - I pointed out that it indeed happened during the Attitude Era. Could you imagine that being booked today - not a chance. Not a chance in hell.

    Revisiting this topic a week later. Producers, directors, writers, even the WWE shouldn't be afraid to produce content as it may potentially offend some small, delicate part of the potential audience - that's the world we currently live in.

    This is wrestling. It's meant to be dangerous, outlandish, even offensive. Sadly, we live in a world of hypersensitivity and social outrage - even booked respectfully, it's not whether it's offends - it's the potential to offend that shuts it down.

  16. #41
    Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    31
    vCash
    500
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    Only legitimate reason I've seen.
    nah you gotta admit they had more match variety back then like another pointed out

    but it was largely teeny-bopper trash yes, especially wcw. The matches were pure garbage. I watched the first year of the nWo recently since i never saw it (didn't have cable) and i think the longest match any of the main character were in topped off at 7 mins. There was also never a legit finish. The shenanigans were creative, that's about all i can credit bischoff with

  17. #42
    Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    31
    vCash
    500
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    Quote Originally Posted by nath45 View Post
    Very true. But a large part of the product relied on those over the top storylines, half naked women, shock-value and pushing the limits of decency to get over. And a lot of this stuff was still being booked into the early to mid 2000s mind you - John Cena launch his career off this. Hot Lesbian Action. Katie Vick - Anything to do with Kane really. The Bra and Panty matches were so regular, you'd think it was a real division. Wedding after wedding. Live Sex celebrations.

    If not these elements - we're just asking for a better product.

    One point, I've argued against since almost 2005 is the need for a brand split. Yes, it gives opportunity to guys who wouldn't necessarily get one - but that's the issue. WWE regularly pushed inexperienced workers, undeveloped characters and called people up without rhyme or rhythm because they had achieved as much as they could in development - only to release them months later.

    This severely dilutes the quality of the product and it's still happening today - Jinder was a jobber 2 months ago, now he's No.1 Contender. If they took everything good on Raw and everything good on Smackdown and it was on one show - the overall product would be better. I'm sitting here watching a Smackdown replay - Breezango just beat The Ascension - no one cared. Mojo was in some pointless segment backstage, then Rusev cut a promo via his cell phone. That's 20 minutes of crap.

    And the one thing that is never discussed around here, is the fact the entire industry during the late 1990s expanded far beyond the walls of the WWF - WCW built an audience to eclipse anything the WWF was capable of at that point and it was the WWF who took it off them with an eventual better product. And in a lot of ways, the WWF didn't create new talent - it took those who had already been established to a degree in WCW - Big Show, Jericho, Benoit, Eddie. The Dudleyz, Tazz from ECW, and interwove them with the WWF. Development wasn't necessarily a focus of the Attitude Era.

    The only take away I would utilise from the Attitude Era is the actual wrestling side of it. Today's wrestling, in the WWE and around the world is often so convoluted in detail and idiosyncrasies, when just some fasted paced brawling and two guys throwing bombs would get a much larger reaction.
    Well that's just it. You bring up the reason the product isn't so great now - less established characters to steal. They took Styles and...what else is out there? Vince has never created characters so much as bought them. That includes Hogan

  18. #43
    Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    31
    vCash
    500
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Dog Smith View Post
    Attitude era was better because of the characters and storylines. Everyone in the midcard had something to do. Even if they weren't being pushed they were given opportunity to GET pushed.

    That's why the attitude era was better, if you wanna talk about PG Vs. TV14 that's a different argument all together.

    Though in my mind, bringing back the half naked women would be welcomed as well. Hell, it's a more progressive age, throw in some half naked men in there, I dont' give a fuck!

    Life's a buffet. You only gonna eat the Shrimp?
    As a gay fan i can assure you half naked men has always been there

  19. #44
    Senior Member nath45's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    806
    vCash
    2442
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    Quote Originally Posted by steellord123 View Post
    Well that's just it. You bring up the reason the product isn't so great now - less established characters to steal. They took Styles and...what else is out there? Vince has never created characters so much as bought them. That includes Hogan
    John Cena, Randy Orton, Batista, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, The Undertaker, The Rock, Austin, Mankind, Kane, Edge, Reigns.. and the list goes on.

    And let's not pretend the indies are more than they are.. Ambrose, Rollins, Balor, Owens, Bryan there's another 5.

    Moving on.

    The Attitude era was only 4 years at it's peak - I wonder if in 2 years time, we could look back on the growth of NXT from it's explosion at Takeover:Brooklyn to the continued growth and hype and overall quality of the product and compare it to the Attitude era in terms of influence on the WWE.

    Potentially in years to come we could be discussing the importance of NXT circa 2015-2019 and looking back on it in the same way we do the Attitude era, despite the overall industry not being as wildly popular in the United States as it was in the late 1990s.

    We might start looking at the Attitude era differently, without the rose colour glasses if we had something new to compare it to, in terms of growth, influence, popularity and overall lasting effect on the WWE - the only difference is the weekly televised product.

    These are the attendance records for all the NXT Takeovers outside of Full Sail. Excluding Chicago.

    Brooklyn - 15,589
    London - 10,079
    Dallas - 9,000
    Brooklyn II - 15,671
    Toronto - 12,649
    San Antonio - 9,465
    Orlando - 14,975

    - 87,428

    WWE themselves have stated that Survivor Series 1997, as the beginning of the Attitude Era. So we'll start in at the DX PPV a month later.

    D-Generation X - 6,358
    RR - 18,542
    No Way Out of Texas - 16,110
    WrestleMania XIV - 19,028
    Unforgiven - 21,427
    Over the Edge - 9,822
    KOTR - 17,087

    -- 108,374. An additional 20,946 patrons went to WWF PPV's in late 1997 and early 1998. The Attitude Era also had a massively successful weekly product to sell PPVs.

    In the same timeframe Dec 1997 - June 1998, WCW's attendance records.

    Starrcade - 17,500
    Souled Out - 5,486
    Superbrawl - 12,620
    Uncensored - 7,475
    Spring Stampede - 7,428
    Slamboree - 11,592
    GAB - 12,810

    -- 74,911. Interesting if given the chance in bigger venues, more people went to NXT Takeovers than WCW PPVs at the company's peak. Oh, and WCW also had a massively successful weekly product.

  20. #45
    Senior Member Mad Dog Smith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    2,322
    vCash
    2000
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    Quote Originally Posted by steellord123 View Post
    As a gay fan i can assure you half naked men has always been there
    Now that you mention it ...

  21. #46
    Moderately Moderating Michinokudriver's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    San Francisco
    Age
    34
    Posts
    10,892
    vCash
    2000
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    Quote Originally Posted by nath45 View Post
    ' A WWE superstar drugging and taking advantage of a female character' - I pointed out that it indeed happened during the Attitude Era. Could you imagine that being booked today - not a chance. Not a chance in hell.

    Revisiting this topic a week later. Producers, directors, writers, even the WWE shouldn't be afraid to produce content as it may potentially offend some small, delicate part of the potential audience - that's the world we currently live in.

    This is wrestling. It's meant to be dangerous, outlandish, even offensive. Sadly, we live in a world of hypersensitivity and social outrage - even booked respectfully, it's not whether it's offends - it's the potential to offend that shuts it down.
    It occurred to me the other day that Lucha Underground had a storyline in which a psycho and his sister abducted and held a female wrestler captive for months, and I haven't heard anyone complain about LU doing that -- because by and large, the audience trusts the writers to treat a sensitive topic with some degree of care.

    Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt season 2 all but flat-out says that Kimmy was sexually abused while she was kidnapped and trapped in an underground bunker for 15 years, and from what I can tell actual abuse survivors are okay with this plot development because the writers are treating the topic with respect and care.

    So really, I do think it's just the WWE that gets the hate, because they have rarely shown themselves able to tackle weighty topics and do them justice. And that's on WWE, not on society.

    Quote Originally Posted by nath45 View Post
    John Cena, Randy Orton, Batista, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, The Undertaker, The Rock, Austin, Mankind, Kane, Edge, Reigns.. and the list goes on.

    And let's not pretend the indies are more than they are.. Ambrose, Rollins, Balor, Owens, Bryan there's another 5.

    Moving on.

    The Attitude era was only 4 years at it's peak - I wonder if in 2 years time, we could look back on the growth of NXT from it's explosion at Takeover:Brooklyn to the continued growth and hype and overall quality of the product and compare it to the Attitude era in terms of influence on the WWE.

    Potentially in years to come we could be discussing the importance of NXT circa 2015-2019 and looking back on it in the same way we do the Attitude era, despite the overall industry not being as wildly popular in the United States as it was in the late 1990s.

    We might start looking at the Attitude era differently, without the rose colour glasses if we had something new to compare it to, in terms of growth, influence, popularity and overall lasting effect on the WWE - the only difference is the weekly televised product.

    These are the attendance records for all the NXT Takeovers outside of Full Sail. Excluding Chicago.

    Brooklyn - 15,589
    London - 10,079
    Dallas - 9,000
    Brooklyn II - 15,671
    Toronto - 12,649
    San Antonio - 9,465
    Orlando - 14,975

    - 87,428

    WWE themselves have stated that Survivor Series 1997, as the beginning of the Attitude Era. So we'll start in at the DX PPV a month later.

    D-Generation X - 6,358
    RR - 18,542
    No Way Out of Texas - 16,110
    WrestleMania XIV - 19,028
    Unforgiven - 21,427
    Over the Edge - 9,822
    KOTR - 17,087

    -- 108,374. An additional 20,946 patrons went to WWF PPV's in late 1997 and early 1998. The Attitude Era also had a massively successful weekly product to sell PPVs.

    In the same timeframe Dec 1997 - June 1998, WCW's attendance records.

    Starrcade - 17,500
    Souled Out - 5,486
    Superbrawl - 12,620
    Uncensored - 7,475
    Spring Stampede - 7,428
    Slamboree - 11,592
    GAB - 12,810

    -- 74,911. Interesting if given the chance in bigger venues, more people went to NXT Takeovers than WCW PPVs at the company's peak. Oh, and WCW also had a massively successful weekly product.
    Interesting take, but the recent NXT Takeovers have been for the most part held the night before a WWE PPV. It's the B-side/second feature to the main roster event and not fully its own thing, so I don't think it's as simple as saying "NXT outsells peak WCW."

    Nominee: PW's Most Knowledgeable Poster, 2006
    Co-winner: PW's Most Knowledgeable Nerd, 2006

  22. #47
    Senior Member nath45's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    806
    vCash
    2442
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michinokudriver View Post
    It occurred to me the other day that Lucha Underground had a storyline in which a psycho and his sister abducted and held a female wrestler captive for months, and I haven't heard anyone complain about LU doing that -- because by and large, the audience trusts the writers to treat a sensitive topic with some degree of care.
    Most political commentators, hell, most WWE fans wouldn't have even heard of LU.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michinokudriver View Post
    So really, I do think it's just the WWE that gets the hate, because they have rarely shown themselves able to tackle weighty topics and do them justice. And that's on WWE, not on society.
    Do they owe that to anyone?

    Pro. Wrestling is meant to be often absurd, stupid and even downright politically incorrect. It always has been. The entire debate is around the Attitude era - most of which was absurd, stupid and even downright politically incorrect. People shouldn't look at Pro. Wrestling and expect political correctness, or a degree of respect shown to whatever issue or agenda is red hot in conversation. It's often satire, it's a circus.

  23. #48
    Moderately Moderating Michinokudriver's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    San Francisco
    Age
    34
    Posts
    10,892
    vCash
    2000
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    Quote Originally Posted by nath45 View Post
    Do they owe that to anyone?

    Pro. Wrestling is meant to be often absurd, stupid and even downright politically incorrect. It always has been. The entire debate is around the Attitude era - most of which was absurd, stupid and even downright politically incorrect. People shouldn't look at Pro. Wrestling and expect political correctness, or a degree of respect shown to whatever issue or agenda is red hot in conversation. It's often satire, it's a circus.
    Then I don't even know what you're talking about anymore, because it started off by your saying society in 2017 is too politically correct to even THINK about its entertainment handling something like sexual assault or race-based topics, to which I pointed out modern shows that DO handle these sorts of topics and they don't get hate, and now you've changed the goalposts to saying wrestling is supposed to be, and inherently is non-PC and satire?

    Setting aside whether I believe it to be effective satire (good satire is thought provoking and forces you to reevaluate your existing beliefs by looking at them through a new lens) if it IS supposed to be offensive then you can't really roll your eyes when someone's offended. It kinda reminds me of when Lady Gaga wore dildo heels on TV and then her fans were shocked and agape when someone else was shocked and agape; she knew exactly what she was doing and what kind of reaction she expected.

    Nominee: PW's Most Knowledgeable Poster, 2006
    Co-winner: PW's Most Knowledgeable Nerd, 2006

  24. #49
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,152
    vCash
    2000
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    They're gonna have to change their product to some extent.

    The Attitude Era. was successful. The current one??? Not so much to say the least. And it doesn't seem to be getting any better

  25. #50
    Senior Member nath45's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    806
    vCash
    2442
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Would WWE ever go back to the attitude era?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michinokudriver View Post
    Then I don't even know what you're talking about anymore, because it started off by your saying society in 2017 is too politically correct to even THINK about its entertainment handling something like sexual assault or race-based topics, to which I pointed out modern shows that DO handle these sorts of topics and they don't get hate, and now you've changed the goalposts to saying wrestling is supposed to be, and inherently is non-PC and satire?

    Setting aside whether I believe it to be effective satire (good satire is thought provoking and forces you to reevaluate your existing beliefs by looking at them through a new lens) if it IS supposed to be offensive then you can't really roll your eyes when someone's offended. It kinda reminds me of when Lady Gaga wore dildo heels on TV and then her fans were shocked and agape when someone else was shocked and agape; she knew exactly what she was doing and what kind of reaction she expected.
    As I've said before, wrestling always seems to held to much higher standard of accountability than other more ' legitimate ' forms of entertainment. And as I've stated, whether there is a still a belief wrestling is still aimed at children, then it's justified - but it's not.

    And you know what, wrestling is one hell of an easy target.

    The point is, the stuff that made the ' attitude ' era famous, outside of the talent, was the absurdity. It was shock and awe, as you mentioned in regards to Lady Gaga - the WWF knew what they were doing when Goldust wrestled in blackface, or another example, X-Pac mocked Mark Henry, in blackface. Or when characters were puking at ringside or when.. the list goes on.

    So you can't ' bring back the Attitude era ' in any form. What made it work, was the fact they were blessed with potentially the greatest line-up of main event talent in history. The only take away would be giving all the talent on television rhyme and reason to be there - storylines, decent storylines. But that's not necessarily " Attitude era " is it. The offensive, crude, and non-PC stuff wouldn't fly in 2017.

    And politically, I'm surprised the WWE hasn't been targeted - having donated $6 million supporting Donald Trump’s campaign. If there was ever a reason to avoid " bringing back the Attitude era " that would be it. Fear of bad PR.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •