Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Potential troublemakers after the 2001 WCW Buyout

  1. #1
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    24
    vCash
    500
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Potential troublemakers after the 2001 WCW Buyout

    Two things worked against the success of the angle in terms of WWF's ability to get legit stars to add credibility to The InVasion angle. The guaranteed lucrative Time Warner contracts was one problem. Why should a Kevin Nash or a Bill Goldberg jump to sign when they could stay at home on their Time Warner deals, waiting until there was more interest in them individually, giving them the upper hand of an advantage for contractual negotiations for a return. Second. a certain number of WCW's top stars were viewed as major risks and therefore troublemakers, certain WCW alumni the WWF weren't crazy about adding to their roster due to their behind the scenes issues.

    Vince McMahon was very interested in looking to bring Sting, Goldberg, Flair, DDP and Booker T to the WWF after the WCW buyout since Vince probably saw them as Ricky Steamboat-caliber role models to everyone, both personally and professionally. Those are the high profile main event performers Vince had the most interest invested in.

    Vince was somewhat hesitant and 50/50 on bringing back Hogan and Nash due to their past relationship with Vince aka backstage politics but otherwise were never known for letting their behind-the-scenes issues affect their work habits on and off camera. Hogan gave Vince the double whammy of testifying against him in Federal Court and then joining WCW in 1994 shortly thereafter, while Nash left WWF in 1996 on bad terms after he got upset with Bret Hart not willingly taking his Jackknife Powerbomb vs Undertaker at WWF IYH: Rage in the Cage PPV. Nonetheless, Hogan is the idealistic guy to personify the 1980s pop culture with Ronald Reagan's Presidency, colorful bliss and California Surfing, whereas Nash is the idealistic guy to personify the cutting edge 1990s pop culture with grunge music, the emergence of Howard Stern, Bill Clinton's Presidency in addition to the introduction of violent fighting video games such as Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Killer Instinct, Virtua Fighter, Dead Or Alive, Tekken, etc.

    Vince was super leery about bringing back Bret (if he was injury free), Savage, Scott Steiner, Hall, Hennig, Luger and Bagwell to the WWF locker room because all of these guys had cast very bad reputations in the industry to the point that they would have had to be signed to incentive-laden probation deals instead of guaranteed contracts and preferential treatment, thus here are your underachieving talent who could've been much more better than they actually ended up being, but somehow have had their career trajectories changed from "young future stars in the making" to "talented but troubled role players" thus you have your following locker room cancers who would've been more worthless to the WWF even if Vince wanted those guys back:

    -1): Bret gets a bad rap for leaving the WWF in 1997 on terrible terms due to his acrimonious relationship with Vince, HBK and HHH for Montreal at the Survivor Series '97 PPV. Also, Bret lost all the very little of his respect he had for the WWF when his brother Owen died on May 1999 at the infamous Over The Edge PPV doing the Blue Blazer gimmick, and The Hart Family were in disarray while contending with Vince and WWF over a lawsuit by Martha Hart. Bret, Keith, Stu and Helen took Martha's side for Owen's sake, while Ellie, Diana, Bruce, Bulldog and Neidhart took Vince's side in hopes that Bulldog and Neidhart would eventually come back to the WWF without Bret bossing them around, and because Vince wanted at least a link to The Hart Family, even if it now had to be through "British Bulldog" Davey Boy Smith alone. Even if Bret was healthy enough to avoid getting concussed from Goldberg, I believe Bret would've had to settle for a cheap incentives-laden contract to provide him with the conditions that he get along with Shawn Michaels, Triple H and Vince McMahon, and now Stephanie McMahon as well, as well as forgive Vince, HBK and HHH for the whole Montreal Screwjob incident much sooner than he eventually did.

    -2): Savage gets a bad rap for leaving the WWF on terrible terms in 1994 not wanting to be saddled on commentary due to his desire to continue wrestling in the ring, in addition to burning his bridges with the WWF when he took the Slim Jim sponsorship deal away from WWF and Vince as well as endless never-ending rumors that Savage was in a relationship with Stephanie McMahon was cited as the biggest reason why Vince never considered bringing Savage back at all once WCW went down under. Those rumors have since been debunked, as Vince will put aside personal issues with people if he believes they'll automatically make him money. Even then, Savage would have had to bank on a cheap incentives-laden contract if he wanted to come back to the WWF in 2001, but he chose to stay away from the national limelight of pro wrestling since his departure from WCW in 2000.

    -3): Hall gets a bad rap for his ongoing issues with alcoholism that became public knowledge since 1998 when his legal entanglement issues erupted. Unlike Hennig who at least comes off as a respectful and more beloved worker, Hall comes off as a backstage malcontent (as Bret recently summed him up) who spread his unhappiness onto other wrestlers. Hall was dogged with alcohol issues that plagued him for his late 1990s WCW run when he groped a 50-something year old woman and got his foot run over by a car. Hall could be had for cheap and for an incentive-laden contract were he to re-join WWF on the provision that Hall refrain from getting into trouble with the law or drink alcohol.

    -4): Hennig gets a bad rap for his general health and wellness issues due to alcohol and cocaine issues that ultimately led to his untimely death in 2003 (ie: Hennig was drunk on Nitro one week before Starrcade '97, etc.). Despite his substance abuse problems, Hennig (outside of Bret and Savage) had the nicer backstage reputation between him, Luger, Hall and Steiner despite all their personal issues due to being loved and respected in the same vein for being a funny backstage prankster a la Owen Hart and Sean "X-Pac" Waltman. Also, Hennig is if Scott Hall had decided to become a much more respectful professional co-worker, in the ring, backstage and away from the ring; as well as taking pride in his in-ring wrestling abilities. Unlike Hogan, Nash, Bret, Savage and maybe Hall to a small degree; Hennig just wasn't considered as valuable by then, so he got a much shorter leash. Hennig could be had for a cheap incentive-laden contract should he return to the WWF on the provision that he give up alcohol and cocaine for good.

    -5): Steiner gets a bad rap because he's an obnoxious locker room cancer with co-worker issues, his crappy attitude (as an Invincible Jerkass since his inception of Big Poppa Pump) doesn't help his cause when he verbally and physically assaulted Foley, Bill Watts, Vince McMahon, JJ Dillon, Bagwell, Flair, DDP and Kimberly, burned bridges every wrestling company he went, left WCW on bad terms in late '92 after his shouting match with Bill Watts that guaranteed Rick & Scott's exodus from WCW, left WWF on bad terms in early '94 after more of the same with Vince McMahon that guaranteed Rick & Scott's exodus from WWF, before resurfacing in WCW in early '96 all the way to the very end of WCW in early 2001, and talked himself off a wrestling company or two. Some even say he's worse than Luger because although Luger may not really be an ideal company guy to boot, Luger doesn't really rock the boat over the tiniest of things all the time like Steiner would. Steiner could be had for cheap, and probably set himself up for an incentives-laden deal on the provision that Steiner stop poisoning the WWF locker rooms with his horrible backstage attitude, as well as verbally and physically assaulting co-workers, and maybe stop calling his own numbers in how he does his matches and promos. I say most people don't like Hall and Steiner since they're both seen as unprofessional, selfish, flat-out mean bullies and sullen troublemakers much more so than Bret, Savage, Luger and Hennig just because of how Steiner and Hall each operate to everyone backstage, on camera and in real life.

    -6): Luger gets a bad rap because of a combination of bad backstage attitude mainly influenced by caring more about the money at the expense of a good product whether it's WCW or WWF, lazy in-ring performances, injury and conditioning issues since Starrcade '98, and a growing substance abuse problem. Luger grew disenfranchised in WCW's final years when WCW was a completely unwatchable product from 1999 onwards and allowed his already bad wrestling ability to get even worse when he dabbled in drugs while he was married to Miss Elizabeth. Luger left the WWF on terrible terms in 1995 and his return to WCW in 1995 didn't score him brownie points with Vince by the time WCW closed up shop, plus Luger's star dimmed by 1999-2001 so there's no point seeking another lucrative contract, so he could be had for a cheap incentives-laden deal on the provision that Luger offer more in-ring ability than just his physique and name value alone, and stop putting money above helping wrestling companies put on better products.

    -7): Bagwell gets a bad rap because of his bad backstage attitude, although not as bad as Scott Steiner's, but a bad backstage attitude nonetheless. Unlike Steiner, Bagwell just wasn't considered a valuable high-upside talent to begin with, due to his past card placement as a jobber tag team performer from the early 1990s WCW before shifting to the NWO as a singles midcard performer. Bagwell can be had for a cheap incentives-laden deal on the provision that Bagwell (like Steiner and Hall) stop poisoning the WWF locker rooms by being a surly person to his fellow co-workers, and Bagwell joining the WWF ended up happening once Vince opted to select the contracts of Bagwell, Booker T and DDP as the first batch of former WCW workers to come over to the WWF almost immediately.

    In the end: Flair, Goldberg, Booker T, Hogan and Nash had successful WWF runs, while Steiner, Hall, Hennig and Bagwell all failed to make a solid impression during their short-lived returns to the WWF. If only DDP was fully healthy and had Sting decided to join the WWF, both of them would've had successful WWF runs like Flair, Goldberg, Booker, Hogan and Nash did. As for Bret, Savage and Luger; I believe had they all signed back with the WWF, I can be sure that all three of them would've also had failed WWF runs like Steiner, Hall, Hennig and Bagwell did.

  2. #2
    Beat the Devil out of it Leper Messiah's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Western Illinois
    Age
    28
    Posts
    7,471
    vCash
    1920
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Potential troublemakers after the 2001 WCW Buyout

    If only DDP wasn't given the gimmick if a creepy stalker obsessed with Taker's wife.

    But anyway, the XFL failure might have prevented WWF from buying out all of those contracts of the stars that could have been bug in the invasion angle. It was a huge liss in money, and that money could have went to the WCW contracts they couldn't have bought out.

    I still don't see Sting signing, since even in the mid-2000s, when WWE was working on bringing him in, he still opted to go to TNA. I think for Sting, there was less willingness to sign with WWE and tour their hectic schedule until his children had grown up.

    The Bagwell stuff is sad, in that his backstage attitude cost him, when had he had a brain, and could have acted civil, he'd have been popular in WWE. I remember Vince, the final night of Nitro, asking the crowd who he should bring in, and Bagwell getting​a big pop. If only though.

  3. #3
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    24
    vCash
    500
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Potential troublemakers after the 2001 WCW Buyout

    Quote Originally Posted by Leper Messiah View Post
    If only DDP wasn't given the gimmick if a creepy stalker obsessed with Taker's wife.

    But anyway, the XFL failure might have prevented WWF from buying out all of those contracts of the stars that could have been bug in the invasion angle. It was a huge loss in money, and that money could have went to the WCW contracts they couldn't have bought out.

    I still don't see Sting signing, since even in the mid-2000s, when WWE was working on bringing him in, he still opted to go to TNA. I think for Sting, there was less willingness to sign with WWE and tour their hectic schedule until his children had grown up.

    The Bagwell stuff is sad, in that his backstage attitude cost him, when had he had a brain, and could have acted civil, he'd have been popular in WWE. I remember Vince, the final night of Nitro, asking the crowd who he should bring in, and Bagwell getting​a big pop. If only though.
    @Leper Messiah : Assuming that Vince McMahon even wanted to use the money he spent on XFL for WCW or AOL Time Warner contracts, I can guarantee you that he is most likely going to spend most of the budget on bringing Sting, Goldberg, Ric Flair, Booker T and Diamond Dallas Page because those were the main WCW guys Vince was most interested and invested in bringing to the WWF locker room since those five are class acts with total pristine backstage reputations, or at least that was how Vince likely saw those guys as. Remember how Flair and Goldberg got treated like legends in their 2000s WWF runs? I can assume Sting most likely would've gotten the same level of treatment Flair and Goldberg had, and had DDP not been riddled with being 46 years of age along with accumulating neck injuries during his WWF tenure, maybe DDP too would've gotten the same full-time/part-time legends treatment that Flair and Goldberg did receive and what Sting would've had gotten had he opted to come to the WWF much earlier than 2014.
    Last edited by FilipoSooa; 05-31-2017 at 12:45 AM.

  4. #4
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    24
    vCash
    500
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Potential troublemakers after the 2001 WCW Buyout

    To be honest, I really believe that if Bret and Savage returned to the WWF at any point in 2001 once WCW was bought out, both of them (like Steiner, Hall and Hennig) would've gotten incentive-laden probation deals. Both Bret and Savage wanted to wrestle past the age of 40 to the point of being detrimental to the WWF at different points. Savage for '94 and Bret for '97.

    For production value however, I value Savage a bit more than Bret since Savage's prime years were successful due to the fact that Savage was a better all-around performer (whether it's in-ring work, exciting character, charisma or mic work) as the WWF's #1 babyface for much (if not, all) of 1988 while Hogan went out to filming a movie called No Holds Barred. Bret's prime years were when WWF was on the downswing for the New Generation era from '92-'93 through '96-'97.

    Bret, I think he was alright to watch. Even if I don't find his matches special, I gotta at least give him credit for trying to be the actual full-time #1 WWF face of the company at a time when WWF was running low on talent even if Vince was intent on replacing Bret with either Luger, Diesel or Shawn Michaels just because Bret was 35 when he began his main event run and that Vince thought Bret didn't have much upside like HBK had, even though HBK is eight years younger than Bret. The New Generation era was supposed to be a team effort starring an ensemble main cast of Bret Hart, Yokozuna, Diesel, Shawn Michaels, Lex Luger and Sycho Sid; in order to hide the fact that the main cornerstone of the New Generation era (Bret) was a mid-to-late 30+ year old person. Not only that, but Bret's biggest drawbacks are that he wasn't an entertaining enough character, nor was he good on the mic. Those are the main reasons why I cannot deny that Vince was intentional in trying to shoehorn Luger, Diesel and HBK in Bret's place at various points. It wasn't until Steve Austin's epic 1996 King Of The Ring speech after his match with Jake Roberts that Austin was going to become the WWF's most popular #1 megastar since Hogan that Austin was on his way to megastardom regardless of whether he is made by Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels or Vince McMahon.

    To be fair to Bret however; Luger, Diesel and HBK flopped as Vince's intended replacements for Bret Hart because unlike Bret; Luger, Diesel and HBK are much much more preferred as heels. All three of them were naturally known for bad IRL attitudes, so it's only natural you don't make those three into your Next Hogan, nor should Vince have tried to make them as such, because there was never going to be a Second Coming of Hulk Hogan, which Bret could at least be (in his own unique way that's not a blatant rip-off of Hogan's 1980s Hulkamania era). Maybe if Vince started changing his World Champion Draw criteria from babyface World Champs to centering the company on Heel World Champs like NWA/WCW did with Ric Flair, maybe Luger, Diesel and HBK would've stood much better chances of being successful draws for Vince if those three were allowed to be more or close to their IRL selves rather than policing those guys to be the WWF's Gold Standard Champ draws just like how Vince liked it.

    Another possible candidate would be Scott Steiner (if he chose to break away from his brother Rick) but I think Scott (at least from a character standpoint, at the time) wasn't really that great as a face and we already know his true calling card as a performer is as a heel, and Vince wasn't going to center his company around Heel World Champs, being the real-life backstage menace to management he was to Bill Watts in WCW (1992) and to Vince McMahon (1994). Scott would've had the same fate as Luger, Diesel and HBK if Vince chose him just to cast Bret aside, but unlike Luger, Diesel and HBK who are at least capable of being convincing faces to some degree, Scott Steiner had no talent to play a convincing babyface like Rick could. Scott was clearly a 100% heel, in the ring, backstage and off-screen away from the cameras.
    Last edited by FilipoSooa; 04-29-2017 at 04:56 AM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member nath45's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    1,033
    vCash
    2442
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Potential troublemakers after the 2001 WCW Buyout

    I think the biggest mistake they made was not running WCW as a separate brand, in the same vain as the brand split. The WCW roster was purposely buried, while the Alliance was rinsed out and diluted by WWF talent.

    Instead launching WCW later in 2001. Potentially at Survivor Series, as part of the Shane v Vince storyline, Shane challenges Vince to a 4 on 4 traditional Survivor Series match with the stipulation, Shane get's Smackdown if he wins. Vince threatens the WWF roster with being fired if they side with Shane. Shane debuts Booker T, DDP, RVD and Ric Flair - who returned the night after SS IRL anyway. In a Russo-swerve, Team WWF members Big Show and Kurt Angle turn, joining WCW.

    By establishing WCW as a separate brand, they could have introduced the former ECW guys and some WWF guys and over the next year build towards the debuts of Goldberg, Steiner, Nash, Hall, Mysterio in 2002.

    The Dudleyz, Raven, Rhyno, Kanyon, Lance Storm, Justin Credible, Shane Helms, Billy Kidman, Tommy Dreamer, Chavo Guerrero, The Natural Born Thrillers, Stacy Keibler, Torrie Wilson, all those make up the WCW roster.

    New World Order debuts February 17, 2002 - sent by Vince to " kill WCW "
    Brock Lesnar debuts with Paul Heyman for WCW, on March 18, 2002.
    John Cena debuts on June 27, 2002.
    Rey Mysterio debuts on July 25, 2002.

    The run-ins begin in mid-2002, with WCW talent attacking WWF guys and visa-versa. Survivor Series 2002 - WWF v WCW, Scott Steiner returns, screwing WCW - because, fuck you, I'm Scott Steiner. Vince get's his company back after a full year and introduces the first WWE draft creating the brand split as we know it.

  6. #6
    Senior Member MV's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,058
    vCash
    2000
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Potential troublemakers after the 2001 WCW Buyout

    Quote Originally Posted by nath45
    I think the biggest mistake they made was not running WCW as a separate brand, in the same vain as the brand split. The WCW roster was purposely buried, while the Alliance was rinsed out and diluted by WWF talent.

    Instead launching WCW later in 2001. Potentially at Survivor Series, as part of the Shane v Vince storyline, Shane challenges Vince to a 4 on 4 traditional Survivor Series match with the stipulation, Shane get's Smackdown if he wins. Vince threatens the WWF roster with being fired if they side with Shane. Shane debuts Booker T, DDP, RVD and Ric Flair - who returned the night after SS IRL anyway. In a Russo-swerve, Team WWF members Big Show and Kurt Angle turn, joining WCW.

    By establishing WCW as a separate brand, they could have introduced the former ECW guys and some WWF guys and over the next year build towards the debuts of Goldberg, Steiner, Nash, Hall, Mysterio in 2002.

    The Dudleyz, Raven, Rhyno, Kanyon, Lance Storm, Justin Credible, Shane Helms, Billy Kidman, Tommy Dreamer, Chavo Guerrero, The Natural Born Thrillers, Stacy Keibler, Torrie Wilson, all those make up the WCW roster.

    New World Order debuts February 17, 2002 - sent by Vince to " kill WCW "
    Brock Lesnar debuts with Paul Heyman for WCW, on March 18, 2002.
    John Cena debuts on June 27, 2002.
    Rey Mysterio debuts on July 25, 2002.

    The run-ins begin in mid-2002, with WCW talent attacking WWF guys and visa-versa. Survivor Series 2002 - WWF v WCW, Scott Steiner returns, screwing WCW - because, fuck you, I'm Scott Steiner. Vince get's his company back after a full year and introduces the first WWE draft creating the brand split as we know it.
    This would've been nice. Vince rushed the Invasion.

  7. #7
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    24
    vCash
    500
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Potential troublemakers after the 2001 WCW Buyout

    All of that makes me wonder why Vince was hesitant to even take a chance on Savage, Bret, Steiner, Hall, Hennig, Luger and Bagwell since Vince didn't want the young WWF locker room to be riddled by bad influence from those guys. Hogan and Nash were in strong position to make Vince some money, that's the thing. It's why Vince had no problem bringing back Hogan and Nash despite their backstage problems, since both of them were still in a position to make Vince some money, whereas I think the reason why Vince would have had strong issues in bringing back Bret, Savage, Steiner, Hall, Hennig, Luger and Bagwell might be that in each case all of those guys left Vince on terrible terms and that if Vince were to bring them back, he would've given those guys an extremely short leash for their bad backstage reputations, in addition to being in no shape to make Vince money like Hogan and Nash still could.

    I still think if he had decided to make the move to join the WWF in 2001, Sting, Goldberg and a fully healthy DDP would've both been treated the same way Hogan and Flair in the sense that he would have been given a Legends treatment with a World Championship reign here and there.

    With Hall, you have the alcoholism that hindered his ability to perform top-notch in the ring at 100%. With Hennig, you have the alcohol, cocaine and general wellness issues that ultimately caused his untimely death one year later. With Luger, you have a bad combination of bad backstage attitude, disinterested in-ring matches, the easy money paychecks and a growing drug habit that got worse with Miss Elizabeth's death (which happened two years after the WCW buyout). With Steiner, you obviously have the worst of all the backstage reputations by a combination of an extremely rotten backstage attitude, backstage brawls, inability to get along with his co-workers in the ring, backstage and away from the arenas, and had well-documented incidents with Bill Watts, Vince McMahon, Jacques Rougeau, Mick Foley, Paul Heyman, JJ Dillon, Buff Bagwell, Ric Flair, Kimberly, Torrie Wilson, Terry Taylor and Diamond Dallas Page. With Bret, you've got the well-documented backstage issues with Shawn Michaels, Vince McMahon and Triple H that had been magnified by the 1997 Survivor Series in Montreal and leaving the WWF on terrible terms. With Savage, you had to deal with his refusal to be cast aside from wrestler to commentator that eventually hastened his 1994 departure from the WWF to WCW, taking the Slim Jim sponsorship deal with him to WCW and his leaving on terrible terms. With Bagwell, you have backstage problems, entitlement issues and a backstage instigator in addition to attitude problems.

    In the case of Hall, Steiner and Luger, you have the legal entanglement issues for different reasons each. Hall had alcohol-related legal issues since 1998 that involved him groping a 50-something year old woman and getting his foot run over by a limo at SuperBrawl IX (9) in February 1999 that put him out of action for much of 1999, in addition to a short-lived relationship with Brad Siegel's daughter Emily that ended in a domestic feud that caused Hall's ouster from WCW for good in 2000. Steiner got arrested for terroristic threats over a traffic situation in 1998 where the exit ramp of Interstate 575 was closed according to Georgia Department of Transportation employee Paul Kaspereen but Steiner wouldn't budge and so he hit Kaspereen twice with his Ford F-250 pickup truck and had to spend 10 days in jail (I don't really remember if it was Hulk Hogan, Bagwell, Brutus Beefcake, Eric Bischoff, Kevin Nash, Bret Hart, Roddy Piper, Sting, Luger or Rick Steiner that posted bail/bond money to get Scott out of jail), and in 2001, Steiner again got arrested for assaulting Kernersville, North Carolina-based EMT Randall Mankins but the charges were dropped after Steiner wasn't told that Mankins was an actual EMT rather than an actor paid to masquerade as an EMT. Luger was undoubtedly connected to the death of Miss Elizabeth in 2003 where she was found dead of a drug overdose, and eventually, authorities had multiple drugs seized from Luger's home, as well as a domestic violence incident between Luger and Elizabeth. All of Luger's problems definitely happened two years after the WCW buyout but there was no question about Luger's toxicity by the time WCW was closing up shop.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •