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Thread: Mccool's work as a face is underrated from purely in-ring stand point

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    Default Mccool's work as a face is underrated from purely in-ring stand point

    I know people tend to rag on Michelle's work as a face due to her lack of charisma/personality in that role. But from purely in-ring standpoint I think that part of her carer is underrated.

    Especially since basically the formation of the divas division she brought a really unique style to the table that no diva has since really replicated with a mix of high speed and technical offenses. She had her main submission (heel hook) but she didn't just rely on that she'd actually use different submissions and moves to build up to her finisher.

    She also had a lot of athletic and fun offense , and this was working with really only a couple of years of experience.

    Just a couple of examples

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JsOZ3C8084


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An_v6IVYAkY

    Makes me wonder what she could have done in todays era.

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    Moderator LS's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mccool's work as a face is underrated from purely in-ring stand point

    Yeah, her in-ring face work was solid and it makes me wonder what she could have done if she had been a face later on in her career. With that said, I'm glad she was a heel for the majority of her career because she really helped to hold up the division's match quality in her heel role. At the time, she was one of the few heels who was having interesting matches whereas a lot of the heels rested on the laurels with rest holds.

    But back to her face work, I'm sure most of the people who call her a terrible face wrestler have little knowledge of her work and just use it as a blind talking point. The loving life All-American girl thing was bland and not well thought-out at all, but her ring work was fine.

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    "pure trouble" HR's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mccool's work as a face is underrated from purely in-ring stand point

    Quote Originally Posted by LS View Post
    The loving life All-American girl thing was bland and not well thought-out at all.
    I wasn't really paying attention at the time, but do you think that character could have worked as a heel? LayCool era Michelle was pretty decent as far as characters go (especially considering she wasn't super charismatic) but could a delusional heel version of her lovin' life persona maybe have been more original than the played out mean girl trope?


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    Senior Member gl4mazon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mccool's work as a face is underrated from purely in-ring stand point

    I was never mad-keen on Michelle character wise. Particularly as a face yes she wasn’t the most engaging. Her voice kind of went right through me and it also doesn’t help that for some reason I’ve never been too keen on her in ‘real life’ (not that I know her in person of course, but as much as you can have an opinion on a famous person) – something about her behind the scenes and interviews and her Diva-Dirt shoot audio interview after she retired all just bugged me.

    That being said yes she was very athletic and good in the ring. Her work with Melina, Beth and Mickie was entertaining and she bought the best out of the likes of Maryse (a solid Unforgiven match stands out) and even Maria at times (god help us). I kind of thought she may have had a comeback at some stage or appeared but no such luck – to be honest I Kind of see Charlotte as a new and slightly improved version ever. Very similar in stance, style, athleticism and flashy movesets however Charlotte is obviously very crisp and also great on the mic (for the most part)/.

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    Senior Member Mad Dog Smith's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mccool's work as a face is underrated from purely in-ring stand point

    Quote Originally Posted by Dex-star View Post
    I know people tend to rag on Michelle's work as a face due to her lack of charisma/personality in that role. But from purely in-ring standpoint I think that part of her carer is underrated.

    Especially since basically the formation of the divas division she brought a really unique style to the table that no diva has since really replicated with a mix of high speed and technical offenses. She had her main submission (heel hook) but she didn't just rely on that she'd actually use different submissions and moves to build up to her finisher.

    She also had a lot of athletic and fun offense , and this was working with really only a couple of years of experience.

    Just a couple of examples

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JsOZ3C8084


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An_v6IVYAkY

    Makes me wonder what she could have done in todays era.
    You're right about here having more opportunity if she was around today. Of course, sh'ed have stiffer competition for a spot too, but you're right.

    Here's the way I feel about it, though.

    Unless you're Cesaro or Daniel Bryan ... I mean, you have to be really good in the ring to be remembered for that.

    I"m sure she was capable but I don't know if she was lights out and that means wether or not she made a good face would have more to do with the stories she was in and the character she portrayed in my opinion.

    And further more, and I know the WWE rarely makes sense, but , if she was a good face, I'd imagine they would have kept her that way. Or at least that's how it should work.

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    Default Re: Mccool's work as a face is underrated from purely in-ring stand point

    Quote Originally Posted by gl4mazon View Post
    I was never mad-keen on Michelle character wise. Particularly as a face yes she wasn’t the most engaging. Her voice kind of went right through me and it also doesn’t help that for some reason I’ve never been too keen on her in ‘real life’ (not that I know her in person of course, but as much as you can have an opinion on a famous person) – something about her behind the scenes and interviews and her Diva-Dirt shoot audio interview after she retired all just bugged me.

    That being said yes she was very athletic and good in the ring. Her work with Melina, Beth and Mickie was entertaining and she bought the best out of the likes of Maryse (a solid Unforgiven match stands out) and even Maria at times (god help us). I kind of thought she may have had a comeback at some stage or appeared but no such luck – to be honest I Kind of see Charlotte as a new and slightly improved version ever. Very similar in stance, style, athleticism and flashy movesets however Charlotte is obviously very crisp and also great on the mic (for the most part)/.

    Charlotte has not shown she can carry anyone though. Like at all. That's one major attribute Michelle has over Charlotte. Charlotte hasn't proven herself outside of her heavily practiced matches with her FHW friends.
    Like i'd bet if you put Michelle vs Dana Brooke you'd get a better match, than the one she had with Charlotte.
    Like you said Michelle was able to bring the best out of the likes of Maryse and Maria working with much more restrictions, than Charlotte.

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    Default Re: Mccool's work as a face is underrated from purely in-ring stand point

    Quote Originally Posted by Dex-star View Post
    Charlotte has not shown she can carry anyone though. Like at all. That's one major attribute Michelle has over Charlotte. Charlotte hasn't proven herself outside of her heavily practiced matches with her FHW friends.
    Like i'd bet if you put Michelle vs Dana Brooke you'd get a better match, than the one she had with Charlotte.
    Like you said Michelle was able to bring the best out of the likes of Maryse and Maria working with much more restrictions, than Charlotte.
    I agree with your point, but to be fair Charlotte has nowhere near the amount of wrestling training and experience of Michelle. Michelle has had the advantage of being with Undertaker, something that people tend to not take into consideration. I have noticed over time that the women who are in relationships with male wrestlers tend to be much better in the ring than those that aren't. Look at the Bella's and Naomi, all greatly improved in ring skills from training and learning from and with their mates.

    Charlotte's in ring abilities do get exposed when she has to wrestle someone new to her, which I admit bothers me a bit considering how hard the WWE is shoving her down my throat saying she is the best woman wrestler on the roster. That being said I think her promo work and in ring persona is one of the best of the women's division right now and think her wrestling abilities with slowly catch up over time.

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    Senior Member gl4mazon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mccool's work as a face is underrated from purely in-ring stand point

    Quote Originally Posted by Dex-star View Post
    Charlotte has not shown she can carry anyone though. Like at all. That's one major attribute Michelle has over Charlotte. Charlotte hasn't proven herself outside of her heavily practiced matches with her FHW friends.
    Like i'd bet if you put Michelle vs Dana Brooke you'd get a better match, than the one she had with Charlotte.
    Like you said Michelle was able to bring the best out of the likes of Maryse and Maria working with much more restrictions, than Charlotte.
    I get what you're saying and as I said I recognise Michelle brought the best work out of Maria and maryse (although still not great let's be honest) but if it boils down to who is an overall better and more perfected wrestler/ package honestly I would say Charlotte. But not by miles - all credit due to McCool

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    Default Re: Mccool's work as a face is underrated from purely in-ring stand point

    Quote Originally Posted by ShwaggyD View Post
    I agree with your point, but to be fair Charlotte has nowhere near the amount of wrestling training and experience of Michelle. Michelle has had the advantage of being with Undertaker, something that people tend to not take into consideration. I have noticed over time that the women who are in relationships with male wrestlers tend to be much better in the ring than those that aren't. Look at the Bella's and Naomi, all greatly improved in ring skills from training and learning from and with their mates.

    Charlotte's in ring abilities do get exposed when she has to wrestle someone new to her, which I admit bothers me a bit considering how hard the WWE is shoving her down my throat saying she is the best woman wrestler on the roster. That being said I think her promo work and in ring persona is one of the best of the women's division right now and think her wrestling abilities with slowly catch up over time.
    Wtf ?

    Michelle spent less than a year combined training full time in DSW/OVW.

    Charlotte started training in May 2012 and didn't have her first televised match until over a year later. She spent a total of three years in NXT training full time. Charlotte also got to train the PC which has vastly better resources than places like DSW/OVW.

    Charlotte also had the advantage of getting to train with the likes of Sasha, Becky, Bayley, Paige, Natalya, Sara Del Rey, Sarah Stock, and others.

    Michelle had Angelina Love, Kristal Marshall , Kirssy Vaine, Trenesha Biggers, and Tracey Taylor to work with in comparison.

    Also I find the "female wrestler is married to so and so male wrestler so they get better through osmosis instead of actual hard work" argument silly but even taking that into consideration Charlotte's dad is Rick Flair , it's not like she doesn't have family members who can give her advice on the wrestling business.

    Like I don't see how anyone could say that Michelle had more training/experience than Charlotte. The fact that Michelle became as good she did is remarkable considering her expedited training process.

    Quote Originally Posted by gl4mazon View Post
    I get what you're saying and as I said I recognise Michelle brought the best work out of Maria and maryse (although still not great let's be honest) but if it boils down to who is an overall better and more perfected wrestler/ package honestly I would say Charlotte. But not by miles - all credit due to McCool
    Better overall package yes I'd agree Charlotte has much more charisma, and has better mic skills than Michelle did. However in terms of pure wrestling ability I'd still say Michelle was better than Charlotte is at this point and time.

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    They still play defense? The Real LT's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mccool's work as a face is underrated from purely in-ring stand point

    Athletically Charlotte kills Michelle. She can do everything in the ring Michelle can and more and she does it with a taller and thicker frame to boot. Michelle still has better ring psychology though, which how she is able to do better carry jobs.


    That being said, sorry, Michelle still was underwhelming as face, even in the example you showed. Her style of breaking down a limb for submissions is the kind of ruthless pragmatism that works perfectly for a heel, but is TERRIBLE face psychology.

    The only thing better about Michelle McCool's face run was her finisher. Wings of Love>>>>>>>>>>Faithbreaker.

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    Default Re: Mccool's work as a face is underrated from purely in-ring stand point

    Charlotte right now is basically a more well-appreciated and a Michelle McCool that is given more reign to work with. Face Michelle was quite iffy, honestly. Athletically, she was good, but it was hard to get into her matches given how she was bigger than most of the girls she was working with during that time that it was hard to take her seriously as a face in peril. And honestly, the same can be said about Charlotte. That said, Michelle is a better carrier. She can work with your greenest girls and make them look like a hundred bucks (like Maria, Kelly, etc.).

    <-- Resident Michelle McCool and Charlotte stan since 2008.
    ★ DO IT WITH FLAIR! ★

    -surrender-

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    Default Re: Mccool's work as a face is underrated from purely in-ring stand point

    Michelle was twiggy as fuck, she would have been easy believable as a face in peril, she just didn't work that style.

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    Default Re: Mccool's work as a face is underrated from purely in-ring stand point

    Ughh Michelle was terrible. Fucking the Undertaker did wonders for her career because that was when she got her mega push. I couldn't stand watching her skinny ass beat Nattie who in a shoot could break her legs.

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    Default Re: Mccool's work as a face is underrated from purely in-ring stand point

    I don't think Michelle was underrated as a face, tbh. People were always pretty ignorant about the work-rate of most divas at that time.

    For the most part, I never felt that her ring work was in question (once she'd established herself), unlike much of the other aspects of her face character. She was just SO good as a heel, it was like night and day. Whilst she was always pretty good as a face-worker, I always thought her psychology was fantastic as a heel, she just got it.


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