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Thread: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    I had the great Terry Funk just behind the Magnificent Seven (tm @The Icon) at #8. I'm a little surprised he didn't receive any #1 votes, though he did get a few second place votes.

    With absolutely no apologies to Damien Kane, because Damien Kane sucked, Terry Funk is the true Godfather of Extreme. He was extreme before extreme was even a thing. From the wild empty arena match w/ Lawler, to piledriving Ric Flair on a table, to death matches in Japan, Terry Funk was hardcore before hardcore was cool.

    So it was only natural that early ECW would reach out to the Funker. And even more than other early big name hardcore heroes like Snuka & Gilbert, Funk left an indelible mark on the promotion created in his image. Terry was absolutely selfless in ECW (and pretty much everywhere else). Despite being the biggest name in the promotion, he put over the next generation of stars like Sabu, Douglas & Public Enemy. The 3 Way Dance with Douglas & Sabu in early '94 was the first ECW match to generate a buzz.

    Funk soon went back to WCW for a cup of coffee after ensuring the fledgling Philadelphia promotion was on solid ground. He would return for sporadic appearances over the next two years bringing his Japanese feud with the next generation "Terry Funk" in Cactus Jack to ECW. There was an infamous incident the two had involving fire at The Arena. Funk left again for a little while over that but soon came back to help out another young lion in Tommy Dreamer leading up to Funk's most memorable ECW moment....

    Winning the title on ECW's very first pay per view Barely Legal. It was perfect. There was love in The Arena that night. Now I personally would have found a way to watch Barely Legal with or without Funk's shining moment but I can tell you Funk was THE major draw for my friends. He was the guy we all knew and loved (for the 1989 Flair feud was HUGE in my neighborhood) and Funk winning the belt capped off an all time great ppv.

    There was a nagging voice in the back of my head telling me 50+ year old Terry Funk wasn't all that great. Of course it's not a doubt I ever verbalized as I had a narrative to push which went "Flair is the GOAT. Funk is GOAT runner up." (It's funny how non-smark me had the same Top 2 as the 100+ hardcore superfans on PWO almost 20 years later) But, yeah, I did wonder if 53 year old ECW Funk was all that. Other guys were younger and more athletic with cooler moves and bigger bumps. The Funk/Candido match was.....not good. That pesky little voice was forever silenced when I saw the quintessential ECW match involving Funk & Sabu at Born To Be Wired. Never again would I doubt Terry f'n Funk after seeing his barbed wire war with Sabu.

    That was Funk's last great hurrah in ECW. He "retired" again for a minute a month later after wrestling WWF Champion Bret Hart on a show called Terry Funk's Wrestlefest. (Just watched an ad for this on Youtube. So weird to hear Heyman shilling Mankind & WWF Champion Bret Hart matches in 1997) Funk briefly came back to turn on Tommy and become Justin Credible's heel mentor (Credible gets another rub!) but that was stupid and nobody was buying it.

    "You're not a real wrestling fan if you haven't seen Terry Funk live." was an Apter Mag line my neighborhood clique took as gospel. We finally became "real wrestling fans" in May 1998 but I do regret never seeing the Funker in ECW proper. Although I did see him recreate the Night the Line Was Crossed w/ Sabu & Shane at Hardcore Homecoming so I suppose that's close enough to count.

    Terry Funk is as ECW as any of 'em and well deserving of his lofty spot on our countdown. He brought big name status to a tiny independent promotion and went above and beyond the call of duty in helping to create the next generation of stars. And you gotta love a 1970s NWA champion breaking out moonsaults for the first time at the ripe old age of 50. If anybody on this countdown deserves a little video tribute it's The Funker....


  2. #127
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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    #5
    11 Votes-500 Points
    Shane Douglas


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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Cactus #5- His anti-hardcore promos were genius. I saw him in a Falls Count Anywhere at The Philly Civic Center vs Edddie Gilbert< Tristate- Eastern Championship Wrestling>-brawled and bled all over the stands. Blood everywhere<same night had Abby vs The Sheik! My wife held his belt when we saw Terry +Cactus at Franklin Mills mall= He was what ECW was all about-stories+blood!
    http://forums.prowrestling.com/showt...110&highlight=

    http://forums.prowrestling.com/showt...482&highlight=

    Dudleys were not my guys- I was into Eliminators+Gangstas+PE

    Sandman #10- Saw him in many great battles. I was there for The Raven family arc, blinding, Stairway to Hell---He was PHILLY Pro 'Rassling. I loved his style-very bar brawl with some sloppy DDTs and Air Bud. By 1990's Pro Wrestling was a joke-he added "reality." ECW Arena popped when Sand wrestled-did he translate to the rest of the world-SCREW THE REST OF THE WORLD! We loved him in Philly.

    Dreamer #9- My introduction to Dreamer was his caning by Sandman-arms draped over the ropes-Woman asking if he would quit-Dreamer eating 10 canes-HOLY S! Saw him lose to Raven many times. Brian Lee destroyed him often. He was a bump machine-GOD BLESS TOMMY DREAMER!

    Terry #4- I was there when he won ECW belt. I hugged him and he bled on my shirt. He was in his 50's-TOUGHEST man in ECW. I tried to crash his "retirement" dinner. What a night.
    http://forums.prowrestling.com/showt...214&highlight=
    Last edited by Fezz; 05-07-2017 at 07:28 PM.
    "Don't break the Kayfabe"

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    The Funker-going back to the first episode i saw with the Raven/Cactus vs Dreamer beat down. barely anything was audible in the ring at the time, but i could make out Dreamer saying Terry Funk was gonna have his back. that definitely helped bring me back the following weeks. a few episodes later, this crazy guy that terrorized wrestling during my younger years was in the flesh, saying batshit insane stuff, being a sadist, and getting cheered for it! later on after this psychotic bloodbath war he had teaming with dreamer there was this desperado music video set to his ECW career, and it kicked ass.

    Got to see him twice during the build up to barely legal. unlike the old timers who were dominating WCW for themselves, Funk's comeback was for ECW. the living legend, the man that refuses to die! he fought Axl Rotten and then teamed with Pitbull 2 to take on Raven and Shane Douglas. he poured his soul into those matches and fought like his life depended on it. the fans there and myself were exploding for everything he did and we knew this was the journey to something epic (barely legal). the venues were overflowing with love for this hero.

    during the eastern days, it wasn't uncommon for big names to show up in small promotions, My thing with the big names like Jimmy Snuka was that you could tell they didn't give a shit. In that Paul Heyman doc.(shooty-est WWE has ever been) Tod Gordon talks about how the big names weren't doing much for the company and were even difficult to work with, but the Funker was giving his all into it, and helped turn ECW into one of the last great territories, and gave the new stars (Sabu, Shane, Public Enemy) credibility enough to turn the place Extreme and on the same level as the big two.

    I was actually super pumped for the heel turn on Dreamer. As the Cactus feud in 1995 showed, he could heel mutants good enough. probably one of the top 5 ECW matches that never happened for me.
    Last edited by Fisto; 05-07-2017 at 01:33 PM.

  5. #130
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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    *Voters were remarkably consistent when it came to Shane Douglas. He had the lowest deviation of anybody on the countdown with all 11 ballots placing him between #3 & #8.

    It's no secret that I was not a Douglas fan. The only other iconic ECW act I disliked nearly as much was Public Enemy. Prime Douglas constantly did three things bound to get under my skin...

    1. Bash my hero Ric Flair
    2. Bash my beloved WWF
    3. Bash his awesome Dean Douglas gimmick

    I've actually mellowed out a lot on Douglas since coming here. After reading a lot of stuff, and watching a bunch of shoots, I realize he often had a point, though I still think he took it too far on many occasions.

    Douglas was ECW's top heel in their early days feuding with Sabu & Funk. The first 3 Way Dance between those men was a major moment in ECW's growth from a regional independent with only local fans to a growing company with hardcore followers all over the US, if not the world. Six months later he literally invented Extreme Championship Wrestling by throwing down the NWA Title in a classic moment.

    I haven't seen much of pre-Dean ECW Douglas outside of the iconic stuff to be honest, and most of what I have seen was pretty meh (that famous 3 way is not good, for example), but he really found his footing when he returned to ECW from his awesome WWF Dean run. Douglas as the hated TV champ feuding with The Pitbulls is his best ECW stuff imo. The Douglas/Pitbulls rivalry is a Top 5 ECW feud for me. Shane had nuclear heat. He was the guy the fans (including myself) loved to hate. He also had a Top 5 ECW match during this run in the famous TV Title 4 way. Just a classic heel at the height of his powers. Pitbull #2 was the perfect opponent for Shane to do his Flair cosplay. Douglas' TV Title loss to Taz was also perfectly done.

    They sort of lost me when Douglas won the ECW Title in late '97. I always had trouble buying him as THE top guy. They billed him as this great Ric Flair-type wrestler when I just never saw it. This is ECW, man. A 'great wrestler' needs to go above and beyond the call of duty. Douglas always seemed pretty lame when compared to the real Great Wrestlers. Or guys like Sabu, RVD & Taz. Or even the likes of Dreamer, Sandman & Raven. His belly to belly finisher was like the 8th coolest thing in any given ECW match. He went from good heat to bad heat in my eyes when he beat my man Snow in a shitty match and was then allowed to hold the ECW Championship for months while out with an injury. This pissed me off way more than it probably should have but I felt the same way about it that most fans (including myself again) felt about HHH just being handed the World Title in 2002. It was like they were trying way too hard to convince us of omg what a great wrestler this guy is~!

    BUT Heyman managed to make that go away heat period rather short-lived due to booking Douglas against my three favorite ECW wrestlers in the New Triple Threat, and then finally doing the big Taz/Douglas title match. Of course I wanted to see the New Triple Threat & Taz kick Shane's overrated ass. I have no idea what Guilty As Charged '99 drew buyrate-wise but it should have done well considering it was the best built ECW ppv match since Barely Legal. Douglas did a brief 'legend' face turn after losing to Taz and was in the midst of a surprisingly good feud with the Impact Players (which had me almost ready to cheer Douglas) when he left the company for WCW due to being owed a ton of money.

    Shane was an anti-Baker Guy but his importance in ECW history cannot be overlooked. He did a lot to grow the company in its early years as their Ric Flair/HHH type with an edge and came back to have a great heel run for a year and a half. Had him at #7 on my list.

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    American Ninja ShinobiMusashi's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    It seems like the internet has cooled off on hating Shane Douglas over the last couple of years. When I first started reading classic wrestling discussions on the internet back in 2012 he seemed to be one of the most hated guys by the IWC. Lately I've seen a lot more love for Douglas. He was the most professional full time wrestler in ECW there for a while in 94-96, more often than not his matches were usually the best on the shows, while usually nothing to blow your socks off they were at least competent wrestling matches with some storytelling or psychology being used. Loved that one episode of Hardcore TV from 1995 where like 75% of the show was Shane cutting the "Evolution of the Franchise" promo. His exit to the WWF in 95 was well played in ECW, then when he came back in 1996 he was at the prime of his career in my opinion, he seemed much more motivated and started to physically start to pack on some mass. Loved his match against Scorpio at A Matter of Respect 96, good matches with Mikey, Raven, and an excellent underrated gem against Pitbull 2 in October that year. Then once they put Francine with him the act was complete, she played her part very well to compliment what Douglas was. He was a great heel. One of my favorite things about ECW is the way Taz chased Douglas for the ECW World Title for that 16-17 months there from Wrestlepallooza 97 establishing Taz as the superior man, Douglas won the World Title and ducked him, ran from him, and threw his Triple Threat brothers in his path of rage to try to stop him. Taz bringing out the FTW belt to declare himself as the real ECW World Champ because Douglas was too chicken shit to fight him-awesome. It all built up to Taz finally getting his shot at Guilty As Charged, I was so hyped for that match, never did get to see it, didn't have internet access or anything so I didn't know what happened until it was covered in the magazines, I marked out just seeing the pictures of Taz choking Douglas out and hoisting up that strap finally.

    Douglas started to fall apart in 1998, a bunch of injuries and a bunch of problems with drugs and pain pills I'm sure. All three members of the Triple Threat started to phone it in there at the end of 1998. Bam Bam left for WCW after November to Remember, Candido and Sunny were in and out of ECW and was a big mess after that, but Douglas picked it up after he lost the strap to Taz at Guilty As Charged. The very next show at House Party 99, just a couple of days after Guilty As Charged they put on a much better rematch with Douglas turning face, then he seemed to get his motivation back. Douglas vs Justin Credible at Cyberslam 99 is a fucking excellent match with Douglas working his ass off to put over the Impact Players.

    Shane will always go down in ECW lore for throwing the NWA strap down and cutting the OG pipebomb promo. Plus he was over like a motherfucker in Pittsburgh, Shane in Pittsburgh in ECW was like a much smaller version of Bret in Canada/USA in 97, while Shane was a big time heel everywhere else in ECW he was a babyface in Pittsburgh and it drew record breaking crowds for ECW there that year, their first crowds of 2,000+, last I heard ROH had never drawn a crowd that big ever in their existence? Is that true? The Pittsburgh fans even cheered Douglas over Funk in one of their title matches there at one of the first Golden Dome shows in 97, even chanting for Douglas to break the Funker's neck. Funk worked the match as a heel even though he was a beloved babyface in every other ECW town, it was flipped on it's head in Pittsburgh because of how over Shane was there. This was a big reason why they booked the Douglas vs Bigelow stuff they did with the title building into that November to Remember 97 show. Shane helped ECW take that next step, attendance, PPV, I actually liked his title victory over Bam Bam at November to Remember 97.



    1.
    2.
    3.
    4. The Sandman
    5. Tommy Dreamer
    6. Shane Douglas
    7. Terry Funk
    8. New Jack
    9.
    10. Cactus Jack
    11. Eliminators
    12. Sabu & RVD
    13. Public Enemy
    14. Yoshihiro Tajiri
    15. Dudley Boys
    16. Stevie Richards
    17. Jerry Lynn
    18. Super Crazy
    19. Lance Storm
    20. 2 Cold Scorpio
    21. Mike Awesome
    22. Eddie Guerrero
    23. Masato Tanaka
    24. Dean Malenko
    25. Rey Mysterio
    26. Steve Corino
    27. Balls Mahoney
    28. Bam Bam Bigelow
    29. Chris Jericho
    30. Pit Bulls
    31. Justin Credible
    32. Doring & Roadkill
    33. Al Snow
    34. Spike Dudley
    35. Mikey Whipreck
    36. Pit Bull 2
    37. Chris Candido
    38. Axl Rotten
    39. 911
    40. Nova
    41. The Unholy Alliance Mikey Whipreck & Yoshihiro Tajiri
    42. Guido
    43. Eddie Gilbert
    44. Rhino
    45. The Gangstas
    46. Kid Kash
    47. Jazz
    48. Steve Austin
    49. Brian Pillman
    50. Hack Myers
    Last edited by ShinobiMusashi; 05-07-2017 at 11:37 PM.

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Quote Originally Posted by ShinobiMusashi View Post
    it drew record breaking crowds for ECW there that year, their first crowds of 2,000+, last I heard ROH had never drawn a crowd that big ever in their existence? Is that true?

    Douglas vs Justin Credible at Cyberslam 99 is a fucking excellent match with Douglas working his ass off to put over the Impact Players.
    The Hardys ROH just set a company record of approximately 3,600 during Wrestlemania weekend. Records are sketchy but it appears their previous attendance record was around 2,100 in NYC way back in 2008.

    At least Douglas went out on a high note with the fans cheering for him in that surprisingly good match with Credible. I was digging that Douglas & Dreamer vs. Impact Players feud.

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Quote Originally Posted by ShinobiMusashi View Post
    Plus he was over like a motherfucker in Pittsburgh, Shane in Pittsburgh in ECW was like a much smaller version of Bret in Canada/USA in 97, while Shane was a big time heel everywhere else in ECW he was a babyface in Pittsburgh and it drew record breaking crowds for ECW there that year, their first crowds of 2,000+, last I heard ROH had never drawn a crowd that big ever in their existence? Is that true? The Pittsburgh fans even cheered Douglas over Funk in one of their title matches there at one of the first Golden Dome shows in 97, even chanting for Douglas to break the Funker's neck. Funk worked the match as a heel even though he was a beloved babyface in every other ECW town, it was flipped on it's head in Pittsburgh because of how over Shane was there. This was a big reason why they booked the Douglas vs Bigelow stuff they did with the title building into that November to Remember 97 show. Shane helped ECW take that next step, attendance, PPV, I actually liked his title victory over Bam Bam at November to Remember 97.
    I've never forgiven Pittsburgh for that bullshit. I remember that match, and when Funk won, I yelled "Ha Ha, FUCK YOU PITTSBURGH" as they booed the shit out of my hero and threw trash at him. but yeah, i'm a big Franchise fan. his matches with Bam Bam were great, even the one where he won, cause it had Pittsburgh scum having to watch him get his ass kicked for most of it. During one of those parking lot discussions before a show, a fan said Shane was better at being Tully than Flair. from him winning the tv title from scorpio til him losing it to Taz may have been the best single year for any heel. not even going into the white heat, he had amazing heel psychology. everything he did was perfectly chicken shit and he was relentless in his attacks. than he would get his ass kicked amazingly to make the opponent the most loved guy on the roster. add the nuclear heat (which was a tragedy but they made something positive out of the injury) and now everyone wants to legit see him die. I was at a show right after the halo shaking incident. the place would not let up on him every time he was out. "FUCK THE FRANCHISE" "FRANCINE IS A FUCKING WHORE-DOO DAH-DOO-DAH"

    there was this kurt angle forum on here where someone said he became to obsessed with having a "great match" instead of remembering what made them great, which in Shane's case, wasn't the locker room emptying to watch a classic and shaking hands afterwards, but nuclear heat, cheap shots, brutality, and believable hatred. that's why he was a better Tully than Flair. that's what his matches with Al Snow and Taz should have been. in defense of his 6 months without defending the title, would anyone buy into Taz or Al Snow if they beat an injured Shane?

  9. #134
    Senior Member Fezz's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Shane #6- I liked his work. Pre-steroid he put on some classic matches, he blew-up and then was "nicked" often. His head cheerleader Francine added MUCHO heat. I was there when she turned on the Pitbulls and revealed Franchise undies-then was POWER-BOMBED through a table. His speech before trashing NWA belt was lovely. I was also there when he shook Pitbull 1 while he was wearing a halo- The Arena almost melted down.
    "Don't break the Kayfabe"

  10. #135
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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    the Magnificent Seven (tm @The Icon)
    Or even better, the Malevolent Seven.

    I may have had Shane Douglas a little high but what he did at the conclusion of the NWA title tournament really set the tone and was the tipping point for the company which made him very important historically in my eyes. He was also one of the few that got to be truly hated by the ECW crowd for his persona. His feuds with the Pitbulls and the long build with Taz were perfectly booked to get the most heat out of the crowd. He just was that constant in ECW where the fans could focus their vitriol and he was great in that role, not much more can be said. I think he tried to put his own stamp on the "Ric Flair" role with being much more intense with his promos and being just a more edgy character that fit the 90's temperament. "The Game" and the "Daddy's little princess" should still being giving "The Franchise" and "The Head Cheerleader" some royalty checks to this day.

    1.
    2. Terry Funk
    3. Shane Douglas
    4. The Sandman
    5.
    6.
    7. Tommy Dreamer
    8.
    9. The Gangstas
    10. Cactus Jack
    11. The Dudleys
    12. The Eliminators
    13. The Bad Breed
    14. Dean Malenko
    15. Eddie Guerrero
    16. Public Enemy
    17. Mikey Whipwreck
    18. 2 Cold Scorpio
    19. Rey Mysterio
    20. Mike Awesome
    21. Jimmy Snuka
    22. Don Muraco
    23. Bam Bam Bigelow
    24. Jerry Lynn
    25. New Jack
    26. Sabu and RVD
    27. Tajiri
    28. The Pitbulls
    29. Masato Tanaka
    30. Steve Austin
    31. Super Crazy
    32. Stevie Richards
    33. Lance Storm
    34. Chris Candido
    35. The Impact Players
    36. Chris Jericho
    37. Spike Dudley
    38. Steve Corino
    39. Justin Credible
    40. Balls Mahoney
    41. 911
    42. Rhino
    43. Al Snow
    44. Tommy Cairo
    45. The Chair Swingin' Freaks
    46. Chris Candido and Lance Storm
    47. Hack Myers
    48. Psicosis
    49. The FBI (Tracy Smothers and Little Guido)
    50. Nova
    Last edited by The Icon; 05-08-2017 at 12:14 PM.

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    "Big P, every day I praise Raven. He is in my top 10- OF ALL TIME. He may reach 9 soon."

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Fezz View Post
    Shane #6- I liked his work. Pre-steroid he put on some classic matches, he blew-up and then was "nicked" often. His head cheerleader Francine added MUCHO heat. I was there when she turned on the Pitbulls and revealed Franchise undies-then was POWER-BOMBED through a table. His speech before trashing NWA belt was lovely. I was also there when he shook Pitbull 1 while he was wearing a halo- The Arena almost melted down.
    i know what you mean, there was no reason for him to take steroids. ECW didn't give a shit how someone looked, and the roids slowed him down a lot, and took away his endurance and bumping ability. same shit ruined Saturn in WCW. yeah they made Shane "Look" strong, but now he's gassed during matches, slow, and can't bump as good. it seemed like every month there was a great match involving him in 96-97 (any Pitbull 2 match, mixed tag with Dreamer, Spicolli, 4 way, Bam Bam) but once 1998 hit, the feud with Taz and Impact Players was good, but not many great matches beside maybe one with Taz and Justin Credible. that and his body was destroyed by then.

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Quote Originally Posted by The Icon View Post
    "The Game" and the "Daddy's little princess" should still being giving "The Franchise" and "The Head Cheerleader" some royalty checks to this day.
    definitely, but from what little I've seen from that "Ruthless Aggression Era," i see more of prime Franchise and Francine in Edge and Lita than Triple H. goes back into how i feel Shane was better as a chickenshit heel than a "great wrestler" type.

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    American Ninja ShinobiMusashi's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Quote Originally Posted by The Icon View Post
    Or even better, the Malevolent Seven.

    I may have had Shane Douglas a little high but what he did at the conclusion of the NWA title tournament really set the tone and was the tipping point for the company which made him very important historically in my eyes. He was also one of the few that got to be truly hated by the ECW crowd for his persona. His feuds with the Pitbulls and the long build with Taz were perfectly booked to get the most heat out of the crowd. He just was that constant in ECW where the fans could focus their vitriol and he was great in that role, not much more can be said. I think he tried to put his own stamp on the "Ric Flair" role with being much more intense with his promos and being just a more edgy character that fit the 90's temperament. "The Game" and the "Daddy's little princess" should still being giving "The Franchise" and "The Head Cheerleader" some royalty checks to this day.
    I thought about Douglas and Francine when this happened at the last Mania:



    Franny would have owned that bump though. Stephanie=amateur

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisto View Post

    there was this kurt angle forum on here where someone said he became to obsessed with having a "great match" instead of remembering what made them great, which in Shane's case, wasn't the locker room emptying to watch a classic and shaking hands afterwards, but nuclear heat, cheap shots, brutality, and believable hatred. that's why he was a better Tully than Flair. that's what his matches with Al Snow and Taz should have been. in defense of his 6 months without defending the title, would anyone buy into Taz or Al Snow if they beat an injured Shane?
    This is the best description of Shane's 'failings' I've ever read. The Tully/Flair comparison is spot on and I'm kicking myself for not having thought of it a long time ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Icon View Post
    "The Game" and the "Daddy's little princess" should still being giving "The Franchise" and "The Head Cheerleader" some royalty checks to this day.
    Even during my peak Douglas hate/HHH fandom I'd admit the obvious- "The Game" was a "Franchise" ripoff. In fact, a lot of people use the same criticisms I have of Douglas on Triple H. I tend to go easier on HHH because, while he certainly has had his fair share of Douglas-style failed epic duds, his highs were much higher than Shane's imo.

    I'm going to hold off a few hours on posting #4 in order to give any stragglers a chance to catch up. In the meantime I will share a few things I've referred to at times during the countdown.

    Favorite ECW Matches

    1. Sabu vs. Funk- Born To Be Wired
    2. Pitbulls vs. Raven & Richards- Gangstas Paradise
    3. Tommy Dreamer vs. Raven- Wrestlepalooza '97
    4. Douglas vs. Pitbull #2 vs. Scorpio vs. Jericho- Heatwave '96
    5. Awesome vs. Tanaka vs. Taz- Anarchy Rulz '99

    *These are my five quintessential ECW matches and the ones I'd choose if I were tasked with introducing somebody to ECW.

    Favorite ECW Wrestlers

    1. Taz
    2. RVD
    3. Sabu

    4. Terry Funk
    5. Raven
    6. Sandman
    7. Dudley Boyz
    8. Stevie Richards
    9. Steve Corino

    10. Tommy Dreamer

    -Taz, RVD & Sabu are my Big 3 in that order. The next 6 are pretty interchangeable and the order could change on any given day. Tommy is #10. As Kilgore pointed out, he was consistently good but never really great. I always liked Tommy. Never turned on him. But there were always several ECW wrestlers I liked more at any given time. He was Mr. Consistency but never a real blowaway MVP type guy.

    Favorite ECW Feuds

    1. Raven vs. Dreamer
    2. Taz vs. Sabu
    3. Raven vs. Sandman
    4. Sabu vs. RVD
    5. Douglas vs. Pitbulls

    *I prefer heated blood feuds over respectful workrate feuds. These were five quality blood feuds. Well, ok, Sabu/RVD was based on respect, but it was done in the best possible heated face vs. heel way.
    Last edited by Baker; 05-09-2017 at 12:53 PM.

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    American Ninja ShinobiMusashi's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Baker View Post
    The Hardys ROH just set a company record of approximately 3,600 during Wrestlemania weekend. Records are sketchy but it appears their previous attendance record was around 2,100 in NYC way back in 2008.
    Interesting. This got me curious about ECW in Pittsburgh so I looked up some of the numbers. They ran the Golden Dome, which was actually a building that was used as a church in Monaca PA, which was about 25 miles north of Pittsburgh. First ECW show there was May 24th 1997 with 1,926, the biggest crowd ECW ever did up to that point. They topped that with 2,200 when they went back in August 97(this is where Douglas wrestled Funk for the title, with Douglas working as a face and Funk working as a heel). Then they went back for November to Remember 97 and broke the record with 4,634 with Douglas winning the strap from Bam Bam. They ran the Golden Dome again in January 1998 with 2,300, again in March 98 with Douglas & Bigelow vs RVD & Sabu headlining drawing 2,675. They ran the Golden Dome again in May 1998 without Douglas on the card(this was when he was injured) and they only drew 1,300.

    I read in one of the Observers from around this time that the church that ran the building caught wind of what was going on in these ECW shows at the Golden Dome and got them barred from the building. All the other ECW shows at Convention Centers in Pittsburgh drew anywhere between 2,700 to 3,500. A show in Pittsburgh in September 98 with Douglas vs Lance Storm drew 3,470. Douglas vs Sabu in Pittsburgh in October 98 drew 3,374. These were all the biggest crowds in ECW history until November to Remember 98 did 5,800(heavily papered probably) in Louisiana. Shane Douglas vs Masato Tanaka main event in Pit in December 98 drew 2,700. As they phased Shane Douglas out of ECW they just kinda stopped hitting the Pittsburgh market, they didn't go back until April 99 with a show featuring Douglas pinning Justin Credible drawing 1,800. Douglas was gone from ECW by the time they went back in September 99 with a show that only drew 1,400. After that it was June 2000(no attendance numbers for that one) and that was the final ECW show there.

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results


    #4
    11 Votes-507 Points
    Raven


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    American Ninja ShinobiMusashi's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Raven has to be one of the coolest wrestling characters of the 90's. Watching through Raven's run in ECW I couldn't help but feel a little bit underwhelmed though, always read about him in ECW, seen pictures of his feud with Tommy and Sandman in magazines, built up this legend in my head that the real thing couldn't live up to. He comes in in January 1995 with a fresh new twist on the classic chicken shit heel, instead of running from a fight because he was scared or inferior to the babyface he chose not to fight because he just didn't give a shit. His run picks up when he manipulates Cactus Jack, that Summer rewiring his brain like David Coresh or reprogramming him like they did to Robocop in part 2! The feud with Tommy and Sandman had so many great moments through, so many classic 1 liners like old action movies, "The pills says one day at a time moron!", "HE WORSHIPS MEEEEE!". He was a bit of a mess in 1996 though, the problems with his foot, then he was on hiatus at one point over drug problems/rehab while he was ECW World Champ. When Raven left after Wrestlepalooza 97 it was like ECW lost it's mojo. His comeback in 99 had me so hyped about ECW it ain't even funny. Such an awesome moment. The look on Tommy's face when he turns around and Raven hands him the tag title belt is so classic.


    1.
    2.
    3.
    4. The Sandman
    5. Tommy Dreamer
    6. Shane Douglas
    7. Terry Funk
    8. New Jack
    9. Raven
    10. Cactus Jack
    11. Eliminators
    12. Sabu & RVD
    13. Public Enemy
    14. Yoshihiro Tajiri
    15. Dudley Boys
    16. Stevie Richards
    17. Jerry Lynn
    18. Super Crazy
    19. Lance Storm
    20. 2 Cold Scorpio
    21. Mike Awesome
    22. Eddie Guerrero
    23. Masato Tanaka
    24. Dean Malenko
    25. Rey Mysterio
    26. Steve Corino
    27. Balls Mahoney
    28. Bam Bam Bigelow
    29. Chris Jericho
    30. Pit Bulls
    31. Justin Credible
    32. Doring & Roadkill
    33. Al Snow
    34. Spike Dudley
    35. Mikey Whipreck
    36. Pit Bull 2
    37. Chris Candido
    38. Axl Rotten
    39. 911
    40. Nova
    41. The Unholy Alliance Mikey Whipreck & Yoshihiro Tajiri
    42. Guido
    43. Eddie Gilbert
    44. Rhino
    45. The Gangstas
    46. Kid Kash
    47. Jazz
    48. Steve Austin
    49. Brian Pillman
    50. Hack Myers
    Last edited by ShinobiMusashi; 05-08-2017 at 10:42 PM.

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    I feel kinda invincible Kilgore's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Terry Funk: Everything that needed to be said about Terry Funk has already been said. I just want to back up reppng his 1994 where got over everybody that needed to get over. Most of the time, the notion of so-and-so getting somebody else over is overblown, but Funk legitmately helped get over Shane Douglas and Sabu, the two most important singles wrestlers of 1994, and then The Public Enemy immediately after, quite possibly the most important ECW act of 1994 and 1995. It'd be like the WWF equivalent of one guy getting Austin, Rock and The New Age Outlaws over in 1998 (which is funny because you could make the case that Terry Funk helped literally got the NAO over in 1998 too). Those four names made ECW in the early days. It's the ace heel, the ace babyface and the ace tag team, all made by Terry Funk. It is the clearest example of successful rub I've ever seen. He could have never showed up after 1994 and be a Top 10 ECW guy for that, and for its early television show in 1993 being built completely around him. But he did show up after 1994, and it just added to his greatness in ECW. Can everybody not named Baker, whose already done it, make a bigger deal about Born to be Wired in 1997 please? Why the fuck is Terry Funk doing Born to be Wired? There is no reason for this to happen. He's the man, that's why. The fact that ECW is like a blink of an eye in Funk's history in wrestling just makes me want to make him the GOAT. Who else has a career as long and as versatile as Terry Funk?

    Shane Douglas: The Franchise is one of the coolest gimmicks ever. The stereotypical blonde babyface, gets fucked over elsewhere, and shows up in Eastern Championship Wrestling as a fire breathing baddy, so filled with bitterness and anger, that nobody is going to stop him. Yes, The Game is the Franchise, especially the 1999 version, that really began with that worked-shoot he had with Jim Ross complaining about how the WWF had done him wrong, and he was punished for other people's sins, and it was his fucking time. That could have been any Shane promo from 1994 to the day before that was taped, and it absolutely made the portion of Triple H's career that he's still milking 18 years later. Back to Douglas, I loved his championship reign as a juxtoposition to the rest of ECW. You had all these parts of ECW that I might have loved, but a purist would deem "garbage wrestling", "misifts", "talentless", while the champion was a guy in traditional wrestling trunks, looking like a champion from the beginning of television and this guy living and interacting in this world added credibility to them. He was the perfect polish to go with the rest of the unfinished roster. I always liked the idea of Shane Douglas more than Shane Douglas himself. He was never quite as good in the ring as he probably should have been, but by the next promo, he would convince you he was again, for long enough until the next match and then rinse and repeat. Douglas could temporarily talk himself up to Ric Flair's class, which is an insane thing to even consider, but in the midst of a Shane Douglas promo, it seemed reasonable. That's how good he was on the stick.



    Raven: Like Douglas, one of the coolest gimmicks ever. Raven always gets linked with like Undertaker type characters because of "darkness", or something. I always found that lazy because Raven was so completely grounded to reality, whereas Undertaker was a (good) cartoon. As far as I can remember, Raven was the first heel that they took the time to explore why? Why is that villain curling his mustache and tying women to the train tracks? You never knew why, and that was most wrestling heels. The closest thing you'd ever get to reasons is "revenge" like Paul Orndorff/Andre/Macho feeling wronged by Hogan, or something. While Raven certainly had revenge on his mind, you found out, like with most people that go on the wrong path, he had a fucked up childhood and never recovered. So simple, but so perfect. It explains most people's fucked up tendencies, and for me, immediately made Raven more sympathetic than any babyface I've seen since. We've been through the fun angles, Dreamer and Sandman being better sports entertainment than anything the WWF and WCW were doing in 1995 (and the first five months of 1996, as well). Because the WWF was getting all Grammar Nazi about not being wrestling, but sports entertainment, ECW loved to make a big deal about how they were proud to be wrestling. Sports Entertainment sucks. Everything Raven did was sports entertainment, though. The only difference was, it was actually good. One of my favorite Raven moments is when a jealous Raven made Stevie choose between him or Francine. They built it up so well, like Stevie was finally going to stand up for himself, for the first time in his fucking life. He superkicked Francine in the face. If that doesn't represent the perfection of the ECW orbit around Raven in those days, I don't know what does.


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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    All voters had Raven between #2-#9 while I had him at #4.

    Raven is one of the most memorable characters ECW ever created. Just perfect for that time and place. He's also my choice for greatest ECW world champion. The promotion was never better than when Raven was the top guy feuding with Sandman. He was the only ECW star to really take advantage of the relaxed rules in a chickenshit heel sense by always having his lackeys run interference for him as his matches perfected the art of the 12 step finish. Raven's long feud with Dreamer is not only the best in ECW history but one of the greatest in all of wrestling, period. That feud managed to last for two and a half years without ever getting old due to all the plot twists and cycling other guys in and out. Masterful stuff. While Raven's feud with Sandman might have somehow been even more personal as Sandman's entire family got involved. Raven & Richards are also an all time great wrestling double act, maybe even THE greatest.

    Kilgore bringing up Stevie superkicking Francine is timely. I just watched a bunch of Raven shoots last night to get in the mood for this post and Raven said that was his one of his favorite ECW moments because it perfectly captured their characters.

    I was intrigued by Raven pretty early on after discovering him in the Apter Mags. He had a cool look and something about him just made me want to see this guy. Also reading about something called a Generation X Match in an ECW tape description intrigued me. Now I had no idea what a Generation X Match was (turns out it's just ECW speak for a shitty gauntlet match) but you better believe I wanted to find out!

    I was a huge Raven fan based on his matches and live event promos alone but where he really excelled was in tv interviews. Somebody put a bunch of his Hardcore TV promos up on Youtube a few years back and they were spectacular. I spent hours one day going down that rabbit hole. Raven's stuff was light years ahead of what the Big Two was doing in early-mid 1995. Really rather deep for pro wrestling and his tortured grunge guy gimmick captured the spirit of the times. I can only imagine seeing them in real time. Chances are Raven would have been my favorite wrestler for most of 1995 and I would have spent the past 4-5 years writing lengthy tributes to the greatness of Raven instead of Borga, Jacques & Goldust.

    Raven wasn't necessarily about the matches but even then I enjoy his bouts with Dreamer & Sandman more than any human being probably should. He also had two of my three favorite ECW matches in the GOAT clusterfuck that was Raven & Richards vs. Pitbulls and the epic Loser Leaves Town (complete w/ GOAT aftermath) vs. Dreamer.

    I echo Shin on Raven's 1999 return. I was so pumped reading about that. Like I was marking out for days. Yeah, losing the Dudleys sucked but OMG RAVEN IS BACK~! made up for it. And winning the belts with his arch-rival Dreamer! *insert markout emoji here* It was a spectacular beginning to the TNN Era which would surely catapult ECW to the #2 promotion in America before long. Unfortunately the aftermath never lived up to its potential. Sometimes you can't go back (who the hell remembers the 2000 Flair/Funk feud, to give just one other wrestling example?) and even the addition of Sandman into the story failed to recapture the magic of 95-96. Reports at the time said Raven had a serious drug problem and was intentionally dogging it on top of that as he was just biding his time until he could legally return to WWF. After not doing a whole lot, he did indeed return to WWF after putting Scotty Anton, of all people, over on his way out. Few missed him this time around.

    But that first ECW run was pure magic.

    Quoth the Raven
    Nevermore!

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    Senior Member The Icon's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Raven was yet another character that made ECW stand out. He looked like the most depressed and deprived human being on earth (a wrestler with a nose ring?!) when first seeing his pictures in the magazines. To find out later that was Johnny frickin' Polo blew my mind, what a transformation. All the feuds have been well documented by now but with so much personal turmoil going into that character it made them all seem that much more real and a real step up from the traditional good guy vs. bad guy dynamic. Raven's feuds were defined by shades of grey and showed that even the babyfaces have their darksides to them which had never really been seen before in wrestling. Raven broke all the rules when it came to the traditional heel even in his matches by taking the pacifist route or just having his Nest do the fighting for him from the get go. He's the perfect avatar for ECW and changed the way fans viewed heels.



    1.
    2. Terry Funk
    3. Shane Douglas
    4. The Sandman
    5.
    6. Raven
    7. Tommy Dreamer
    8.
    9. The Gangstas
    10. Cactus Jack
    11. The Dudleys
    12. The Eliminators
    13. The Bad Breed
    14. Dean Malenko
    15. Eddie Guerrero
    16. Public Enemy
    17. Mikey Whipwreck
    18. 2 Cold Scorpio
    19. Rey Mysterio
    20. Mike Awesome
    21. Jimmy Snuka
    22. Don Muraco
    23. Bam Bam Bigelow
    24. Jerry Lynn
    25. New Jack
    26. Sabu and RVD
    27. Tajiri
    28. The Pitbulls
    29. Masato Tanaka
    30. Steve Austin
    31. Super Crazy
    32. Stevie Richards
    33. Lance Storm
    34. Chris Candido
    35. The Impact Players
    36. Chris Jericho
    37. Spike Dudley
    38. Steve Corino
    39. Justin Credible
    40. Balls Mahoney
    41. 911
    42. Rhino
    43. Al Snow
    44. Tommy Cairo
    45. The Chair Swingin' Freaks
    46. Chris Candido and Lance Storm
    47. Hack Myers
    48. Psicosis
    49. The FBI (Tracy Smothers and Little Guido)
    50. Nova

    Quote Originally Posted by Fezz View Post
    "Big P, every day I praise Raven. He is in my top 10- OF ALL TIME. He may reach 9 soon."

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results


    And so it has come to this. After 98 wrestlers and nearly a month only the New Triple Threat remains. Who will be the first to fall? Tune in tomorrow some time after 2 p.m. to find out!

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    Senior Member The Icon's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    You can tell I took the greatest part seriously considering what's left to fill in on my list. If this were a favorites list then it's a no brainer among the New Triple Threat. We'll see how much that number 8 vote effected one of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fezz View Post
    "Big P, every day I praise Raven. He is in my top 10- OF ALL TIME. He may reach 9 soon."

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    I feel kinda invincible Kilgore's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    I had one of the New Triple Threat members at #4, with Raven at #3.


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    Senior Member Fezz's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    See my avatar----my cat's named after him----SAAAAFFFFFF'IIIIIIIINNGGGGGGGGGBBBBBBBbbBBbBbBbbBO oOoOoOoooOoOo he will not fall/fail.
    "Don't break the Kayfabe"

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    #3
    11 Votes-518 Points (One First Place Vote)
    Rob Van Dam


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