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Thread: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

  1. #101
    Member Fisto's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    something i found funny about new jack. as good as he was a face, he was an amazing heel in smoky mountain and ecw feuding with the public enemy. was talking to some black guy before a show in new york, who was there in 1995 who said that he got in his face before a match and yelled at him for "liking them fake punk ass bitches, the public enemy." he wouldn't back off until Mustapha told him to save it for the ring. goes to show that most great faces start as heat magnets.

  2. #102
    Member The Kliq's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisto View Post
    shit, this thread had me reminiscing all night at work about my experience. i'll have to post the shows i went to and what stuck out most from them eventually. that judas priest heavy metal parking lot comparison shin dropped was spot on. it was like before a heavy metal concert mixed with the rowdiest sporting event. lots of tailgating and drinking. "fuck WCW, fuck nWo man." WWF ain't got shit on this.

    something kilgore mentioned about Stevie Richards not getting another proper shot in ECW. there was a taz/nova match where taz completely buried Stevie and his defection to WCW really brutally. called him Raven's ass wiper. and this was on hardcore tv. it was rough. a lot of the boys resented Stevie for leaving when he was getting ready for the title. imagine if RVD left in mid 1998 or if taz left in the middle of his streak. i know he was injured, but it didn't seem to matter to them. stevie goes into detail about it in a shoot that might be on youtube and the reaction he got when he returned at November to Remember.

    I always imagined the "Superstar" Stevie Richards was gonna get the heel push Justin Credible got because he was feuding with Dreamer and it looked like a Taz match would have happened, but i don't think they should have brought him back a heel. even if he left, we watched him rise up the card for a year before he was injured. got very mixed reactions live. on one hand, we were glad to see him back, on the other, the character wasn't him at all.

    i watched through WCW 1997 not to long ago. as an ECW fan, his run there was depressing. 6 months of getting serious and standing up to Raven, and now he's back to being a clueless puts. not to mention that ruined him in real life.

    Can you elaborate on this?

  3. #103
    Theend Is Here Theend's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    I love seeing the Jerry Lynn love. When I think of pure in ring greatness from selling to technical ability to doing stunts and spots I will take Jerry Lynn in an argument as best ever any day.

    He was AJ Styles before Aj Styles in my book.
    I am your God

  4. #104
    the check is in the mail Baker's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    #10
    9 Votes-372 Points
    Dudley Boyz



    #9
    11 Votes-459 Points (One First Place Vote)
    Cactus Jack


  5. #105
    Moderator UT's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    I love the ECW version of The Dudleys - they were such incredible heels in a territory where it was hard to be really over and really incredible heels. I loved their initial WWE run as well - but for guys who went on to accomplish so much during their careers I think the best of the Dudleys was ECW Dudleys.

    Speaking of incredible heels - Cactus Jack. I was the first place vote for him and while I get why it should and could be highly contested - I based it on the fact that the single greatest thing I've seen in ECW was Foley's Cane Dewey stuff followed by the incredible ring pyschology of the headlocks and everything that came with it. I know there might of been more important guys , guys who stuck around longer and really embodied ECW to the core but I didn't base it solely on that. If someone who's never watched a lick of ECW in their life asked for a recommendation of what to look for first - I'd point him in Cactus's direction and for me that counts a lot.

  6. #106
    Senior Member The Icon's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    The Dudleys- They came along way didn't they? I hated their first two years in ECW between the goofy stuttering Bubba gimmick to winning the tag titles ad naseum from my guys the Eliminators among others. Once they added Joel Gertner and started cutting promo more like this they completely turned around their image. They were incredible heels and were willing to do anything either to themselves or their opponents. They also made the flaming table a more popular implement as well (PE did them first in ECW.) I think I should have put the Eliminators ahead of them though just because they were more versatile but I had my WWE goggles on when ranking them.

    Cactus Jack- Another early mainstream player that made ECW a must see attraction as the crazy guy from WCW who had the chains off once venturing to Philly. Ironically though it would be when he dialed back and became anti-hardcore that his talent was fully realized. The angle contained in my view the GOAT promo and I still rate it as one of the great angles that I've ever seen. He could be serious and intelligent in his promos or carving himself up with barbed wire in the ring. His matches with Terry Funk and Sabu were hyped massively by the Apter mags and the flaming chair incident would go down in ECW lore. He also had a fun tag team with Mikey Whipwreck and was instrumental in Tommy Dreamer's growth in the company. ECW wouldn't have seen that huge growth in 1995/96 without him., nice to see he got a number 1 ranking.
    1.
    2.
    3.
    4.
    5.
    6.
    7.
    8.
    9. The Gangstas
    10. Cactus Jack
    11. The Dudleys
    12. The Eliminators
    13. The Bad Breed
    14. Dean Malenko
    15. Eddie Guerrero
    16. Public Enemy
    17. Mikey Whipwreck
    18. 2 Cold Scorpio
    19. Rey Mysterio
    20. Mike Awesome
    21. Jimmy Snuka
    22. Don Muraco
    23. Bam Bam Bigelow
    24. Jerry Lynn
    25. New Jack
    26. Sabu and RVD
    27. Tajiri
    28. The Pitbulls
    29. Masato Tanaka
    30. Steve Austin
    31. Super Crazy
    32. Stevie Richards
    33. Lance Storm
    34. Chris Candido
    35. The Impact Players
    36. Chris Jericho
    37. Spike Dudley
    38. Steve Corino
    39. Justin Credible
    40. Balls Mahoney
    41. 911
    42. Rhino
    43. Al Snow
    44. Tommy Cairo
    45. The Chair Swingin' Freaks
    46. Chris Candido and Lance Storm
    47. Hack Myers
    48. Psicosis
    49. The FBI (Tracy Smothers and Little Guido)
    50. Nova
    Last edited by The Icon; 05-04-2017 at 12:29 PM.

  7. #107
    Ravishing Slick Dude KashDinero's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Sorry I never threw a list @Baker's way. Life as usual was not kind to my spare time. Reading through this thread, though, it has made me realise that I could never have ranked 50, even if I had a year to do it. My top ten was hard enough, and even now I am unsure if I had one that was satisfactory for me. Specifically with TPE and The Dudley Boyz. I had Duds at, like, number ten, and had hardly even given TPE much thought, yet those two were HUGELY responsible for ECW's success in general... I dunno, man, I guess I just looked at it from far too many angles and I was never going to be do something like this.

    All I know is, if Taz ain't numbah one then PW is broken, and not in a Hardy way
    PW Nerdery's Most Underrated Poster Of 2015

  8. #108
    Member Fisto's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kliq View Post
    Can you elaborate on this?
    there's not a whole lotta insight i can give, but that really ended what could have been something big in Stevie Richards as a top guy. he's had a good run in the wwf and elsewhere, but being buried in wcw and then not welcomed back in ecw was a major blow. he really had nowhere to go and almost quit wrestling outside of indy appearances. Raven did everything he could to make sure stevie didn't go over. Richards mindset was to join WCW and somewhere down the line have them pay for surgery, so that put an end to that, and then the very short ECW run later made it so he was never gonna be there again. pretty much everyone hated him. i found the summer of 97 raven run in WCW very sloppy and it seemed like everything was written the day of it happening. picked up in the fall though.

  9. #109
    Member Fisto's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Cactus Jack-first time seeing hardcore tv had Cactus Jack having a purposely shitty match with EL Puerto Ricano with all headlocks and fans doing the wave. Raven ddt's him on the outside, and then, Cactus schoolboys him to win even though he didn't have to. Cactus became my favorite when i saw him take an unholy beating from DR Death on WCW, but i had no idea what the fuck was going on right now. Tommy Dreamer came out to kick ass, i was interested. than Raven and Cactus seriously beat the fuck out of him. crazy beat down, now i'm an ecw fan. when i was younger i always wanted wrestlers to shut up and do their talking in the ring, but afterwards, there was this crazy Cactus promo about mutilated wrestlers (the Rottens) and concussed soon to be drug addicts(Whipwreck). i was intrigued by the promo, and rewatching those still give me the chills because very few have been as believable on promos as him. than he would talk about injured wrestlers and the bloodthirsty fans and it seemed like he really means it. now you look at the state of guys like Balls Mahoney and Axl Rotten (god bless em) before their deaths and you see what the style did to them. one of those things in wrestling that's really haunting. the build up to N2R 95 was covered in AHT and it was fucking great. those few weeks made me a hardcore mutant after not giving a shit about wrestling for years, and having been familiar with him was the biggest reason.

    cactus was really a huge draw in the early days and without him, no barely legal. his farewell match with Mikey is definitely a top wrestling memory for me. his other feuds with the public enemy, sabu, and Sandman/Funk/Shane were also amazing and produced great promos and matches.

  10. #110
    I feel kinda invincible Kilgore's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    This is the portion of the countdown where everybody belongs, although one might prefer a different order.

    Dudley Boyz: I'm still amazed by how much success the Dudleys had. For a throwaway, midcard comedy act to become some of the best ECW had to offer, and then one of the biggest WWF/E Tag Teams of all time too, is improbable, to say the least. For more casual ECW viewers, Buh Buh Ray was over immediately. The stuttering, the dancing, Buh Buh almost became a Shah level cult figure in the ECW Arena. He was beloved. What I didn't remember, and rediscovered in the last couple of years, was the pop up Buh Buh Cutter was not a solo answer to 3D, it predated 3D. That's what fresh babyface Buh Buh used as a finisher. Buh Buh and Devon joining forces didn't seem like a game changer at the time, especially considering it seemed to only be fodder for The Eliminators to destroy at Barely Legal, at first. But they slowly started gaining steam, and by 1998, they were one of the biggest acts in the company, and 1999, quite possibly the biggest. Vince McMahon signing the Dudleys just as ECW was about to go on TNN was not a coincidence. The Gertner to Buh Buh to Devon in-ring promos are rightfully legendary, and were at their peak in the summer of '99, literally almost starting riots, not just fun hyperbole. Considering the content, and language of those promos, safe to say, that's something that will never be seen again. I believe The Public Enemy are the most important Tag Team in ECW, but by 1999, the Dudleys had surpassed them in status as ECW's GOAT Tag Team.

    Cactus Jack: This was a bit like Scorpio, where it was, finally a place that will appreciate Cactus Jack. Jack's work in Tri-State Wrestling already made him a legend in Philly, so his arrival in ECW was about as can't miss as it gets. He really got to show his versatility. Babyface and heel, ultraviolent and antihardcore, scary and funny. While most appreciated Foley, I think he probably surpassed even ECW fans expectations when he was showing himself to be one of the most talented workers ever during this run. While I have Austin's self fulfilling prophecy of becoming a Superstar as the greatest ECW, or any other company's, promo of all time, Cactus Jack's Cane Dewey promo might have something to say about that. Even if it doesn't, the amount of great promos Jack had in ECW is insane. It seemed like every week he was cutting A+ promos, speaking about real shit that seems more relevant now, post brain trauma studies, and the last 48 hours of Chris Benoit's life. There's only one other wrestler that embodies ECW more, in my opinion, otherwise Cactus Jack is the most ECW. He sort of invented his own style to make himself credible, one small gym after another before ECW, or even Tri-State Wrestling existed. It's hard to imagine Tod Gordon even forming Eastern Championship Wrestling if he didn't watch Cactus Jack vs. Eddie Gilbert drawing so well for Tri-State, so in a sense, ECW was formed in the image of Cactus Jack. A couple years later, nearly everybody else, including WWF and WCW, were trying to do stuff in the image of ECW. Cactus Jack is ECW.


  11. #111
    the check is in the mail Baker's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    *Kudos to PW for coming up with a Top 10 that mirrors my own, though in a different order of course. From the very beginning I felt like these 10 acts exemplified ECW above all others.

    Dudley Boyz- #9 on my list. Time to TESTIFY!

    The Dudleys became my rooting interest in this countdown. They fell all the way to #12 late in the voting process. I was not a happy camper. Like I was tempted to call the whole project off as invalid if the Dudleys failed to crack the top ten But sanity prevailed in the end and by 1 point the Duds did indeed crack the magical Top 10.

    It only takes one sentence to sum up the Dudleys greatness.....They got the ECW Arena to cheer for Justin Credible and made me want to see Public Enemy. Game. Set. Match. Legendary.

    I was not initially a Dudley Guy. The Apter Mags treated them as a jokey afterthought which is what they were in those days. I was shocked when they came into Barely Legal as the champions. I'm not even sure I knew they were teaming yet. And somehow they're the champs?!? It would be like a casual WWF fan not watching for a few months and then tuning in to see Roadie & Rockabilly as tag team champs having just defeated the Road Warriors. Thankfully sanity prevailed and the Eliminators, who did have that all important Apter Mag buzz, squashed the Duds in very impressive fashion. It wasn't until much later that I finally realized the Dudleys actually ruled in that match by taking the righteous beating they so richly deserved.

    I saw a few more ECW pay per views and started buying ECW tapes with the money I made at my minimum wage job. I was still indifferent to the Dudleys by mid-98. Early Buh Buh was definitely not my cup of tea. Even today that whole slow-witted, stuttering, dancing fool gimmick seems more like something Vince would get a kick out of than something booked by "greatest booker evar" Paul Heyman. I did like D-Von right from the beginning though. He was already a quality heel being a huge jerk to his brothers and swinging the stiffest chairshots wrestling had seen in a pre-Balls Mahoney world. I remember the D-Von/Buh Buh November To Remember '96 blowoff match being legitimately good and having an awesome finish with Bubba hitting the GOAT pop up Cutter.

    I finally became a Dudley Guy some time in mid-98 and never looked back. I don't remember what came first but in rapid succession I saw them "break Beulah's neck," drive the original Sign Guy to the verge of tears with a vicious rant, and THAT Heatwave '98 promo. The Dudleys had officially grown up from a borderline fastforwardable low card act to bonafide heel gods and the best tag team around. Ric Flair may have shouted "Shut up fatboy!" to a thousand random fans but the Dudleys took verbally abusing the crowd to a whole new level. Plus they had one of the coolest finishers around in the 3D. My Dudley fandom only grew over the next year. Another big step was this awesome highlight package/interview chronicling all people the Dudleys injured and all the teams they beat. I'm a sucker for that sort of thing and this really made the Duds look like world beaters. I'm with Kilgore. You could definitely make a case for the Dudleys being THE biggest act in the company during their last year.

    I've been to about 70 wrestling shows. Only once did I ever think things might get out of control. I'll give you one guess as to who was involved. It was a hot July night in 1999 at The Arena. Word had gotten out that the Dudleys were going to WWF. The Duds always worked The Arena crowd up into a frenzy. This night the fans were extra hostile. And the Dudleys, being the heel gods they were, not only refused to back down but ramped up their heeling. My cousin and I legit thought a riot was about to break out. This was the same night the Dudleys got Justin Credible cheered.

    ECW featured quite a few world class heels during its all-too-brief existence- Douglas, Raven, 1996 Taz, early RVD, Lawler, Corino- but none were better than the Dudleys. They turned trolling the crowd into an artform. It had never been done to that level before and probably never will be again. They were a truly unique act right down to their iconic look of overalls, tie dye shirts and glasses. They even made THAT work. Can't forget about their lack of entrance music either. They have to be the only big stars of the past 25 years not to have entrance music. They also introduced flaming tables to ECW. Their last night in the company featuring Raven's return is another all time great ECW moment. That little period was the real time peak of my ECW fandom.

    I do have two criticisms of the Dudleys ECW run. They didn't have enough dance partners. Felt like 90% of their matches came against some combination of Balls, Axl, New Jack, Spike & maybe Kronus. Would have been nice to see them mix it up more with Nova & Meanie or Mikey & Spike. Or maybe bring in the occasional big name team from the past for one offs to put Bubba Ray & D-Von over. Even a heel vs. heel feud with the Impact Players would have been fun. I also think they should have held the titles more. Hell, I wouldn't have been against a Douglas/RVD-style lengthy reign to show they were indeed the best tag team in the world. Hated how they were always losing to random teams that didn't even have matching outfits or a proper tag team name. Also didn't like the lengthy reigns of 'partners who can't get along' Candido & Storm and (to a lesser extent) RVD & Sabu.

    The Dudleys went on to have a surprisingly great WWF run (and to think I was once worried that WWF would fail to properly use them....) and they achieved legendary status as an all time great tag team long ago but I'll take the Dudleys in ECW over the Dudleys anywhere else. Yeah, they had better matches in WWF- all those TLC's, a forgotten classic tables match vs. Hardyz, another fun tables match w/ Eddie & Benoit, Survivor Series 2003, One Night Stand vs. Tommy & Sandman- whereas they don't have a lot of 'great matches' in ECW. The Eliminators squash and one really good match vs. Balls & Spike late in their run are all that comes to mind off the top of my head. But as a total package their ECW run is superior to their WWF run and obviously smokes their TNA stint.
    Last edited by Baker; 05-05-2017 at 12:39 AM.

  12. #112
    the check is in the mail Baker's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Cactus Jack- #10 on my list.

    *It's worth noting that the point total between Cactus at #9 and the Dudleys at #10 doubles the second biggest margin (Candido at #34 and Snow at #35) on this countdown. So while I thought 10 ECW acts were head and shoulders above the rest, PW decided only 9 were.

    So Cactus Jack ruled in ECW. Duh. Cactus Jack ruled everywhere except for maybe TNA but everybody sucks in TNA so we're not counting that. Cactus could do know wrong in my eyes between 1993-2006 but, like, he was even better than usual in ECW. If ever there was a match made in heaven between a wrestler and a promotion it was Cactus Jack in ECW. Kilgore's bit about ECW being created in the image of Cactus Jack (even though I don't think it was intentional) is spot on. Just a perfect fit.

    I can only imagine how hyped I'd have been had I been a smark in 1994 and found out Cactus Jack was wrestling Sabu at the Bingo Hall. That match, while fine (those beer bottle shots!), failed to live up to my insane expectations. But it served as Cactus' introduction to the promotion that would make him an even bigger star than feuding with Sting & Vader in the #2 promotion in America ever did. Everything Cactus touched in ECW turned to gold. The Sabu dream match (even if it wasn't the 6 Star match I was expecting you have to figure it sold a lot of tapes)....the super fun Mikey team....the Sandman & Funk feuds (really liked at least one match from both feuds)...the heel turn.

    Think about the heel turn for a second. You've got the perfect fit of wrestler & promotion here. Cactus, in his own words, was selling shirts on a small scale equivalent of prime Steve Austin. Here was a guy who willingly left the #2 promotion in America so he could wrestle in front of a thousand adoring mutants in a South Philly ghetto once a month. How the hell do you turn THIS GUY heel? But of course Cactus, being a GOATC, made it work. The anti-hardcore stuff was genius. He cut some of the greatest promos in wrestling history during this period and got the next generation (Dreamer, Raven, Stevie) over in the process. In true Foley fashion, he marvelously straddled that line between serious & comedic. Even as a hated anti-ECW heel he could never completely shake that goofball charm that helped make him my 3rd favorite wrestler of all time. Uncle Eric....THAT Dungeon of Doom shirt....WW f'n F: Join the New Generation I could never hate this guy. Not in a million years. But those formerly adoring mutants sure did!

    Haven't seen much of the Douglas/Cactus stuff but that always seemed like such a cool storyline to me with these two polar opposites being unlikely friends only to have a falling out. Cactus went out in style by putting over yet another young gun in Chris Jericho and then having an great farewell match with Mikey featuring an even better postmatch with one last heartfelt promo and then going out in style by Fargo Strutting out of the Arena with the two creative geniuses behind ECW.....

    Stevie Richards and the Blue Meanie

    Gold.

    Cactus f'n Jack!

  13. #113
    the check is in the mail Baker's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results


    #7 (tie)
    11 Votes-467 Points (One First Place Vote)
    Tommy Dreamer



    #7 (tie)
    11 Votes-467 Points
    Sandman


  14. #114
    Member Fisto's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Dudley Boyz- yeah, i liked the eliminators and public enemy more. and it was hard to get into them after seeing teams like them, gangstas, and pitbulls, but the dudleys stepped up with them gone. would have loved to see the public enemy feud pay off. at house shows, if they won, bullshit chants echoed throughout and trash filled the ring. that's fucking heeling. i didn't realize how great they were at the time and kinda thought they needed guys like sandman/dreamer, eliminators, and rvd/sabu to be really interesting. they got wrestling. as true heels, they always made their opponents look like a million bucks and sold the shit out of everything. if they lost, it was a party, if they won, it was a riot, but the opponents came out looking better. meshed great with new jack. favorite dudleys arc was either the dreamer 98 feud or the balls/spike war. i'll share some great dudley's memories later.

  15. #115
    the check is in the mail Baker's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    *With Dreamer & Sandman we have our first tie since way back at #64. Like that tie at #64 between Doring and Roadkill it's fitting that Tommy & Sandman would be tied. Their ECW careers had been intertwined ever since their memorable feud in '94 which put Tommy on the map with the caning and saw the Sandman pretend to be blind in an early worked shoot. They would later become allies and form a semi-regular tag team. I'm going to be repeating myself a lot with this statement but both guys exemplified ECW. They just ECW in their blood.

    I had Sandman at #5 and Dreamer at #6.

    Of course I initially learned about both guys via the Apter Mags. My initial impressions were just a little bit off. See, due to both guys having sleep themed names, I naturally assumed they both used the sleeper as a finisher. And they probably feuded over who had the better sleeper Yeah, I didn't really get what ECW was all about in the very beginning.

    Even today I think Tommy Dreamer is a pretty lame name. Tommy Dreamer sounds like a crooner from the 50s. Had a few hits. No Sinatra. He's spent the last 30 years singing on cruise ships and filling in for Wayne Newton in Vegas when Wayne can't make it. Sometimes he appears on PBS or Time Life infomercials to shill 50s music compilations. This remains my mental image of a man named Tommy Dreamer. Not a guy who sacrificed his blood and body for a tiny wrestling company in Philadelphia.

    Anyway, I was soon set straight on Tommy, Sandman, and their lack of a feud over who had the better sleeper. Both guys were hyped pretty big in the Apter Mags so I had interest in seeing them pretty early on. That finally happened when ECW invaded Raw. Dreamer wrestled D-Von and Sandman did a run in if I remember correctly.

    Barely Legal was my real introduction to both guys. I loved Sandman right from the very beginning. He cut a promo which ended with him intentionally busting himself open! Wtf! This guy is a nut! Random tangent time- Barely Legal did a great job with interviews and highlight packages. Doing so got Taz, Sandman, RVD, Raven & Stevie instantly over with me. Sandman's entrance was something else. Then he proceeded to have a super fun match w/ Stevie & Funk.

    Unfortunately Tommy did not wow me. I didn't like how one of ECW's biggest stars wasn't even wrestling. It still bothers me a little. Instead of wrestling he provided some lousy color commentary in the main event. I guess Tommy didn't get the memo that commentators are supposed to talk. He just sat their silently for long stretches of time. Then he chokepushed Big Dick Dudley from a high place through some tables. Nice bump by Big Dick but that had to be the lamest choke"slam" in history. I mean even Undertaker/Hogan > Dreamer/Big Dick.

    But when I started watching the tapes I quickly grew to love Tommy Dreamer. You'd think the Raven vs. Dreamer feud would get old after a while since they wrestled on practically every single ECW Arena show for a year but it never did. They were always coming up with new ways to screw Dreamer and Tommy having side feuds with Raven's gaggle of lackeys (Richards, Lee, etc.) kept it from getting too monotonous. Definitely one of the greatest feuds not just in ECW history, but in wrestling history, period. I also liked Dreamer as a wrestler. He went above and beyond the call of duty with bumps and blood. Yet he would also break out some actual wrestling moves. I liked how Dreamer was always stealing stuff from his opponents- Raven's pose, Spicolli Driver, RVD's tree of woe dropkick. It's like he knew what worked against him and decided to adopt it for himself. Think Dreamer was also the first guy I ever saw reverse a hip toss into a DDT. Dreamer is underrated as a wrestler. "Innovator of Violence" indeed.

    I actually liked Sandman less in tape form. At least up until the awesome Raven feud. I still can't really get into pre-Raven feud Sandman all that much. Sandman as a heel is just wrong imo. Hell, I didn't even know he was supposed to be heel until like last year But he became the Sandman we all know and love during that epic Raven feud. There's just something about Sandman in ECW. Like the Dudleys, he had his own unique persona. The beer & cigarettes....Singapore Canes & singalongs....Hardcore Icon indeed. Great stuff. I even like Sandman's wrestling more than most. Not that he's great, mind you, or even better than Dreamer, but he perfected the art of the wobbly, glassy-eyed sell, and I appreciate his willingness to bump & bleed. Aside from those god awful flying elbows, I dig his unathletic fat guy flying. Rolling Rocks & Heinekenranas for all!

    Dreamer & Sandman were the top two babyfaces in the company from early '96-mid '98 imo. They fought the biggest, baddest heels like Dudleys, Raven, Team WWF and were just the heart and soul of the little promotion that could. Loved both guys.

    It's weird that Sandman would be the one to go to WCW. This once again shows how important/influential ECW was. I doubt he even gets TV jobber duty without ECW's growing popularity. Then there's Dreamer. If ever there was an early ECW guy who seemed destined for the Big Two it was Dreamer. He looked the part. You could easily see him having a Marcus Alexander Bagwell role in the Big Two for a few years. But Dreamer became the one Guy Who Stayed and for that reason alone I'm glad he got a first place vote.

    Dreamer is one of my Top 5 all time favorite babyfaces. My favorite good guys have always lost more than they won and Dreamer perfected the art of the gut wrenching loss. It got me invested in his matches. I wanted so bad to see poor Tommy finally get his revenge on Raven/Dudleys/Credible/etc. Even when he won he lost. Wrestlepalooza he finally beats Raven. BAM! Jerry Lawler shows up. He finally wins a title. BAM! He has to share it with his arch-nemesis Raven. He finally wins the ECW Title. BAM! Screwed by Credible. Dreamer was wonderfully booked.

    As I have mentioned a thousand times, being at The Arena for Sandman's return is the greatest thing I ever live. I was at Camden Yards when my all time favorite baseball player Cal Ripken tied Gehrig's streak. I got to see my all time favorite band Europe (shut up!) live in concert when I never, ever thought that would happen. And I've seen a ton of great stuff at wrestling shows- Bret beating Diesel for the WWF Title, Aries defeating Joe for the ROH title, a Sabu/RVD match, etc. But Sandman's return tops them all. This has to be among the biggest pops in wrestling history.



    It's even more incredible when you realize many of us in The Arena were drained after just witnessing an epic 30 minute RVD/Sabu match. But you better believe Sandman brought us back to life again.

    My favorite Dreamer match is the Loser Leaves Town match vs. Raven which I rate as a Top 5 ECW match. It also features the greatest postmatch in ECW history. Perhaps in wrestling history. My favorite Sandman match is either the 3 Way at Barely Legal or the House Party '98 war with Sabu.

    To give one last example of my Tommy & Sandman fandom, by some point in 2000 I had turned into an awful pro-WWF troll on the Strictly ECW forum. Yet even then I defended Tommy & Sandman from an internet armada which had strangely turned on them. To this day I have a hard time understanding how any ECW fan could possibly turn on Tommy and Sandman but this definitely happened. Something tells me many of those Strictly ECW posters would be the same people who went on to make the early ROH fanbase so unbearable.

    Anyway, Tommy was great. Sandman was great. E-C-DUB! E-C-DUB! E-C-DUB!

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    Moderator UT's Avatar

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    I put Sandman on the list out of pure respect of what he meant to the ECW fans and live audiences especially , as much as I dislike him and consider him one of the worst wrestlers to actually disgrace the squared circle... not even I could argue that his schtick was incredibly effective and he was one of , if not THE most over act in the history of the ECW arena and as much as I hate everything after his entrance - I can certainly enjoy a Sandman entrance and only can imagine what it would be like to be there live.

    Sandman in ECW was perfect , anywhere else and I don't think I would give him a second look.

    Tommy Dreamer is someone who I don't totally get either , I know why he is beloved and his loyalty and love for the business and product is admirable but he was always just a guy with him. I will say that his coming of age moment where the fans finally began to accept him was incredibly well done and effective and one of the best moments in ECW to me because that is professional wrestling at it's simplest yet most effective. Like Sandman though , I think Tommy was perfect for ECW and anywhere else I don't think he stands out at all. Solid at everything , excelling at really nothing - but deservingly beloved by ECW fans.


    I feel as if I dislike a lot of the ECW icons , so I'm sorry if that's putting some off. There are at least two more big ones to come - but at least it's a different perspective and I do respect what they did for the company , even if after a few decades I've come to really loathe much of their work.

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    American Nightmare SM?'s Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    I had Tommy at #1 because when I think ECW Dreamer is the first wrestler that comes to mind. He is the heart and soul of ECW to me. His feuds with Sandman & Raven are two of the greatest feuds in ECW history.
    surrender

    First Ever PW Heavyweight Champion!

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    Member Fisto's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    deleted this

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Baker View Post
    *With Dreamer & Sandman we have our first tie since way back at #64. Like that tie at #64 between Doring and Roadkill it's fitting that Tommy & Sandman would be tied. Their ECW careers had been intertwined ever since their memorable feud in '94 which put Tommy on the map with the caning and saw the Sandman pretend to be blind in an early worked shoot. They would later become allies and form a semi-regular tag team. I'm going to be repeating myself a lot with this statement but both guys exemplified ECW. They just ECW in their blood.



    To give one last example of my Tommy & Sandman fandom, by some point in 2000 I had turned into an awful pro-WWF troll on the Strictly ECW forum. Yet even then I defended Tommy & Sandman from an internet armada which had strangely turned on them. To this day I have a hard time understanding how any ECW fan could possibly turn on Tommy and Sandman but this definitely happened. Something tells me many of those Strictly ECW posters would be the same people who went on to make the early ROH fanbase so unbearable.

    Anyway, Tommy was great. Sandman was great. E-C-DUB! E-C-DUB! E-C-DUB!
    e share alotta views on wrestling. couldn't get into ROH respectful matches. face/face feuds are good every now in then (rvd/lynn) if done properly to make things interesting. wrestling had always been good guys and bad guys for me. it represents the struggle of good vs evil (too far?) Sandman and Dreamer were my guys. liked them even more when they were together. seemed so badass. not in a taz way, a different kind of badass. they could get beaten down every night for a year straight and loose all the time, but they'll keep coming until you kill them. ultimate underdog hero's of wrestling. both held up their end of making feuds seem heated. making a match seem like a real fight is a lost art. both were amazing sellers and bumpers. among the best. the best thing about them was that you could pick any two fans at a show, and that was what sandman and dreamer represented/were.

    when i first saw Sandman, i was thinking, "no way this guys downing real beer and doing these stunts with ladders and guardrails?" first live show, he downed 3 or 4 during the entrance and the intros. can't gimmick that. holy shit, best entrance ever though.

  20. #120
    I feel kinda invincible Kilgore's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Tommy Dreamer: Dreamer is the ultimate ECW flag waver, and he deserves his lofty status in his ECW lore, but I take short term greatness over steady goodness every single time, so I rate Tommy a little lower than most having PE, Cactus Jack and New Jack ahead of him. Tommy was certainly the heart and soul of ECW on screen and behind the scenes too. When even Paul E. stopped showing up in those final months, Tommy took over the book and was running things the best he could, with an entire locker room that was owed money, who just couldn't stop wrestling for ECW.

    The Sandman: Like Tommy, Sandman had the long term, flag waving goodness, but he also had the greatness of the 1995 title run. Even in their respective Raven feuds, Sandman out babyfaced Dreamer for me. Sandman lost his belt and then his family to Raven. Nobody deserved a win more. Tommy was Raven's childhood bully, who tormented also abused by his father young Raven, and in adulthood stole his love (Beulah), his bounce back fling (Kimona) and sent Raven packing from the only place that knew how to use him properly. I found Sandman slightly more rootable, to say the least.

    Dreamer and Sandman side by side is perfect, though. In 1993, they both had two indieriffic gimmicks, that were so far removed from cool, it's amazing to think they both would go on to be two of the greatest heroes of ECW. They quickly adapted to what ECW was becoming and rode that wave to reach legendary status.


  21. #121
    American Ninja ShinobiMusashi's Avatar

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    Sandman to me is like New Jack, just totally underrated and misunderstood. Easily one of my favorite pro wrestlers of all time, his matches against Cactus Jack in early 95 were some of the best hardcore style pro wrestling matches you are going to find, the Texas Death Match, the barbed wire match they had, all of Sandman's matches against Mikey in 95 were also excellent. What Sandman was good at was it's own style of wrestling you either get it or you don't, he wasn't fast or athletic, his moves were always ugly but he had a certain style that I just loved, his facial expressions and selling were excellent in their own distinct little way. The Stairway to Hell match against Sabu, epic over the top ECW violence that produced some of the most amazing pictures that sold wrestling magazines back in the day=performance art. It's it's own style of pro wrestling, it's totally different from the style that a lot of people don't understand or are not comfortable with so it falls into the "THAT'S NOT WRESTLING!" criticism, I guess wrestling is something different to everybody, Bret Hart and Chris Benoit are my favorite pro wrestlers because what they do is my favorite style, I like Lucha, I like shoot style, I like the super babyface Hulk Hogan style, but I also love the kind of shit that Sandman does, he was an artist in his own way, he could pour out the emotion in his performances like some of the scenes with him and Raven's feud in 96. Loved his performance in the 3 way at Barely Legal, another one of my favorite ECW matches. I was even a mark for him in WCW as Hak, fuck the world. His comeback in 99 may be my favorite moment ever in pro wrestling period, also loved his work with Rhino in 2000 and tickled pink every time he caned Cyrus, fuck TNN! Dude was also tough as fucking Texas shoe leather, I stand in awe at such raw toughness. Honestly when I see people say he's the "drizzling shits" I get kinda mad. Drizzling shits to me is a lot of stuff I've seen in WWE and TNA and women's wrestling over the last 5 years I've been pseudo keeping up with it. I'd take a Sandman match over most of what I've seen.

    Tommy Dreamer totally deserves a #1 vote and I'm glad somebody gave it to him. I thought about doing it but just couldn't put him over a couple of guys. Dude was there from start to finish and was one of the finest hardcore brawlers you are going to find in pro wrestling ever.

    Cactus also deserved a #1 vote, to me he was the MVP of the best year that ECW ever had(1995), starting the year off with a great feud with Sandman that segued into the Funk feud, which segued into his heel turn and alliance with Raven in August, everything from that point on was solid gold. Definitely one of the founding fathers of ECW when you consider his work in Tri States Wrestling Alliance(the roots of ECW) pretty much laid the groundwork for what ECW would become.

    Dudley Boys I've cooled off on them a little over the last couple of years. They really didn't have any good matches I can remember in ECW. They spent a couple of years as comedy jobbers, then they weren't all that great their first year as a tag team. The feud with Dreamer/Sandman/Spike/New Jack in 98 was a huge mess(I did like the whole breaking Beulah's neck angle though). I don't think they really hit their peak in ECW until 1999 and by that point they jumped ship to WWF. Still had them high though because of how dominant they were in kayfabe, most tag title reigns, and they were the center of the ECW universe for a while and were involved in a few great moments. The promos with Gertner were excellent, "Weighing in at a buff, cut, ripped, chiseled, and JAAAAAAAAAACKED.... "

    1.
    2.
    3.
    4. The Sandman
    5. Tommy Dreamer
    6.
    7.
    8. New Jack
    9.
    10. Cactus Jack
    11. The Eliminators
    12. Sabu & RVD
    13. Public Enemy
    14. Yoshihiro Tajiri
    15. The Dudley Boys
    16. Stevie Richards
    17. Jerry Lynn
    18. Super Crazy
    19. Lance Storm
    20. 2 Cold Scorpio
    21. Mike Awesome
    22. Eddie Guerrero
    23. Masato Tanaka
    24. Dean Malenko
    25. Rey Mysterio
    26. Steve Corino
    27. Balls Mahoney
    28. Bam Bam Bigelow
    29. Chris Jericho
    30. Pit Bulls
    31. Justin Credible
    32. Doring & Roadkill
    33. Al Snow
    34. Spike Dudley
    35. Mikey Whipreck
    36. Pit Bull 2
    37. Chris Candido
    38. Axl Rotten
    39. 911
    40. Nova
    41. The Unholy Alliance Mikey Whipreck & Yoshihiro Tajiri
    42. Guido
    43. Eddie Gilbert
    44. Rhino
    45. The Gangstas
    46. Kid Kash
    47. Jazz
    48. Steve Austin
    49. Brian Pillman
    50. Hack Myers
    Last edited by ShinobiMusashi; 05-06-2017 at 08:42 AM.

  22. #122
    the check is in the mail Baker's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    #6
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    Terry Funk


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    Senior Member Fezz's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    I will catch up tomorrow at work. BIG names. Thank you Baker-I'm WET!
    "Don't break the Kayfabe"

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    Senior Member The Icon's Avatar

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    Talking about first impressions I had Tommy Dreamer pegged as "male talent" considering he had Kimona and Beulah seemingly under his control with Joey hyping Beulah's Penthouse spread and the name Tommy Dreamer speaks for itself. With Sandman I was shocked that a wrestler was allowed to smoke and drink on his way to the ring which made ECW that much more extreme in my view. Both were great babyfaces as they both had to overcome being a heelish character on paper. Tommy was the jock who stole Raven's girlfriend and ridiculed him for being different while Sandman was the dead beat dad whose family became so estranged they sought Raven's enlightenment. It is quite fitting they are tied, polar opposites exteriorly but so similar when it comes to studying how their characters evolved as ECW evolved. Sandman was a great bumper and seller while being resourceful while on offense, it wasn't pretty but effective. Dreamer was much the same but had more emphatic facial expressions which would get the crowd fired up and behind him in an instant, he exuded passion. They were essential in making ECW that much different from everyone else.

    To steal a line Terry Funk is the conscience of ECW. He helped the visibility of the promotion so much in the early days, from his heated feud with Eddie Gilbert to making Sabu and Shane Douglas top guys at the Night The Line Was Crossed. He also made ECW a part of his globetrotting feud with Cactus Jack which saw flaming branding irons and flaming steel chairs flung into the audience. He was selfless during all of these endeavors, putting the younger talent and the company first making ECW the must see indy fed. His title win at Barely Legal moments before the power was cut off is in my mind the greatest moment in ECW history and a nice thank you to all the hard work he put in. I had a tough time ranking Terry. I was debating on putting him at number 1 but I had to have an ECW "original creation" at the top. Then I was considering putting him behind all of the "magnificent seven"(you figure it out) but that didn't feel like it did justice to how essential he was at keeping ECW afloat. In ECW I think he saw the spirit of the old territories being kept alive and he did everything in his power to accentuate it.

    1.
    2. Terry Funk
    3.
    4. The Sandman
    5.
    6.
    7. Tommy Dreamer
    8.
    9. The Gangstas
    10. Cactus Jack
    11. The Dudleys
    12. The Eliminators
    13. The Bad Breed
    14. Dean Malenko
    15. Eddie Guerrero
    16. Public Enemy
    17. Mikey Whipwreck
    18. 2 Cold Scorpio
    19. Rey Mysterio
    20. Mike Awesome
    21. Jimmy Snuka
    22. Don Muraco
    23. Bam Bam Bigelow
    24. Jerry Lynn
    25. New Jack
    26. Sabu and RVD
    27. Tajiri
    28. The Pitbulls
    29. Masato Tanaka
    30. Steve Austin
    31. Super Crazy
    32. Stevie Richards
    33. Lance Storm
    34. Chris Candido
    35. The Impact Players
    36. Chris Jericho
    37. Spike Dudley
    38. Steve Corino
    39. Justin Credible
    40. Balls Mahoney
    41. 911
    42. Rhino
    43. Al Snow
    44. Tommy Cairo
    45. The Chair Swingin' Freaks
    46. Chris Candido and Lance Storm
    47. Hack Myers
    48. Psicosis
    49. The FBI (Tracy Smothers and Little Guido)
    50. Nova
    Last edited by The Icon; 05-06-2017 at 05:26 PM.

  25. #125
    American Ninja ShinobiMusashi's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Good ole Terry Funk, always love the way he says "the E C Dubbya". His promo at his father's grave on the Barely Legal go home episode of Hardcore TV gives me goosebumps, one of the best ECW promos ever. Also the promo where he talks to a horses ass like it's Eddie Gilbert cracks me up too, "Oh Eddie your voice has changed but your breath is still the same". Some Ernest P. Whorrell shit.

    Funk represents Texas in ECW and brings that flavor to the company. I remember when I first got an ECW tape I was struck by how foreign it seemed, it's so New York and Philadelphia it's almost like a different world to a country boy like me, the way people talk and the things they say, some words and expressions that I didn't even understand. Everybody talked like they were in a Mafia movie or something, like Goodfellas(or Out For Justice!). But Terry Funk sounds like home every time he talks.

    Examining Terry's career in ECW for my ranking I backed off on him a little bit. He definitely is one of those guys that deserves a #1 vote, if you wanted to make a Mt. Rushmore for ECW Terry Funk would be George Washington on there(Eddie Gilbert=Thomas Jefferson, Cactus Jack=FDR, Sabu=Lincoln). He was there on the very first episode of Hardcore TV endorsing the company in it's most bush league state, giving the whole thing a rub(loved how when they introduced him they showed clips of him in movies and TV shows that he was in) and gave the fans his word that things would get better if only they stick with it. Funk and Gilbert wrestling each other carried the company until Paul Heyman came along, then he helped put over Public Enemy, Sabu, and Shane Douglas in 94, had the "Funk in a Box" comeback in 95(which was copied in Sting's run in WWE recently). The feud with Cactus in 95 was great, after that he was only a part time guy up until the immediate build up to Barely Legal.

    The title win at Barely Legal is one of the best ECW moments but the follow up title reign was kind of a mess up until the barbed wire match against Sabu where he lost it. Then he was pretty much gone to WWF and WCW from then on. I do love the story of him turning down a higher paying offer from WWE to do One Night Stand and instead doing the lesser paying tribute show they did at the ECW Arena that weekend instead, you only got two things in this world, your word and your balls, Terry Funk don't break'em for nobody.


    1.
    2.
    3.
    4. The Sandman
    5. Tommy Dreamer
    6.
    7. Terry Funk
    8. New Jack
    9.
    10. Cactus Jack
    11. Eliminators
    12. Sabu & RVD
    13. Public Enemy
    14. Yoshihiro Tajiri
    15. Dudley Boys
    16. Stevie Richards
    17. Jerry Lynn
    18. Super Crazy
    19. Lance Storm
    20. 2 Cold Scorpio
    21. Mike Awesome
    22. Eddie Guerrero
    23. Masato Tanaka
    24. Dean Malenko
    25. Rey Mysterio
    26. Steve Corino
    27. Balls Mahoney
    28. Bam Bam Bigelow
    29. Chris Jericho
    30. Pit Bulls
    31. Justin Credible
    32. Doring & Roadkill
    33. Al Snow
    34. Spike Dudley
    35. Mikey Whipreck
    36. Pit Bull 2
    37. Chris Candido
    38. Axl Rotten
    39. 911
    40. Nova
    41. The Unholy Alliance Mikey Whipreck & Yoshihiro Tajiri
    42. Guido
    43. Eddie Gilbert
    44. Rhino
    45. The Gangstas
    46. Kid Kash
    47. Jazz
    48. Steve Austin
    49. Brian Pillman
    50. Hack Myers

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