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Thread: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

  1. #76
    Senior Member Fezz's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Balls #15- LOVED Balls-ultra stiff. Best memory=I went out to smoke a spliff, Balls was cussing;walking the lot. "What's wrong Balls?" "Ref DQ'ed me--WHY WHY? He did hit the ref with a chair. Second best memory-Reunion Show= Balls was VERY worried after spitting a tooth after the match" Wife is going to KILL me." Even Balls was afraid of his wife.

    Tajiri #22-He went to my gym, he looked like a little kid. Great worker+spit green mist. I always mark for green mist

    I had Pitbull #1 at #28 and Pitbull #2 at #50- I split tags. I had Pitbull #2 higher but he got "bumped" during voting. Pits was VERY dumb- Veryshort-Very 'Roided. I was there when they P-bombed Francine after she went with Shane-HOLY S!

    Rhino #29- I was bored by then-still enjoyed his energy.
    "Don't break the Kayfabe"

  2. #77
    is not your buddy, guy.

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Wooow I thought Rhino would be top 10-15 for sure. Very surprised with that placement.

  3. #78
    Senior Member Fezz's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Quote Originally Posted by RT View Post
    Wooow I thought Rhino would be top 10-15 for sure. Very surprised with that placement.
    Rt, no knock on Corino or Rhino but ECW was sad by then-co-opted looking bush-league.
    "Don't break the Kayfabe"

  4. #79
    It's all in the reflexes Baker's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results


    #20
    11 Votes-302 Points
    Masato Tanaka



    #19
    9 Votes-305 Points
    Public Enemy



    #18
    9 Votes-317 Points
    Eliminators



    #17
    11 Votes-318 Points
    Bam Bam Bigelow


  5. #80
    American Ninja ShinobiMusashi's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Such a great Steve Corino writeup by @Baker, the Bakemiester. I pushed Corino pretty hard in my ECW fan fictions, he had a big match against Flair at Wrestlemania X-8 but I had to put Flair over.

    I'm in the same boat as a few others here with Rhino. Wasn't that crazy about him in ECW, he was cool doing jobs for Super Crazy but once they started pushing him I wasn't feeling it. I did like his feud with Sandman though. The prospect of a big Rhino vs RVD feud seemed to be what they were headed for at the end and honestly that's not something that I would have been interested in that much. In fact in my ECW fan fiction I picked up right where ECW left off in 2001 and one of the first things I did was have Rhino drop the ECW World Title to RVD, it wasn't even a big PPV match it was just on Hardcore TV. Also noticed how much more jacked he looked in the 2001 WWF tapes I have seen, must have gotten a hold of some of those good steroids once he hit the big time. Rhino was cool and was ok, I had to at least give him a spot on my list for the work he put in there at the end.

    Balls Mahoney had ECW running through his fucking blood, way underrated, I'd take Balls vs RVD from Anarchy Rulz 99 over any other WCW or WWF pay per view main event from that year, including Austin vs Rock matches. Definitely way better than any of the hardcore division posers that were getting pushes in WWF and WCW. I don't know where Balls ranked in the PWI 500 for 1999 but I hope it was pretty fucking high.

    Pitbulls in their prime in ECW were awesome, definitely one of the best tag teams in ECW history.

    Tajiri was amazing to me, his series with Super Crazy was a big part of why I stopped watching WCW and WWF bullshit and went strictly ECW in late 99 into 2000. Those kicks changed my life, and the Tarantula is one of my favorite holds of all time.

    1.
    2.
    3.
    4.
    5.
    6.
    7.
    8.
    9.
    10.
    11.
    12. Sabu & RVD
    13.
    14. Yoshihiro Tajiri
    15.
    16.
    17.
    18. Super Crazy
    19. Lance Storm
    20.
    21.
    22. Eddie Guerrero
    23.
    24. Dean Malenko
    25. Rey Mysterio
    26. Steve Corino
    27. Balls Mahoney
    28.
    29. Chris Jericho
    30. Pit Bulls
    31. Justin Credible
    32. Doring & Roadkill
    33. Al Snow
    34. Spike Dudley
    35.
    36. Pit Bull 2
    37. Chris Candido
    38. Axl Rotten
    39. 911
    40. Nova
    41. The Unholy Alliance Mikey Whipreck & Yoshihiro Tajiri
    42. Guido
    43. Eddie Gilbert
    44. Rhino
    45. The Gangstas
    46. Kid Kash
    47. Jazz
    48. Steve Austin
    49. Brian Pillman
    50. Hack Myers

    Going to hit the next batch tomorrow. Glad to see the Original Mack Daddies of Violence rank so high though:




  6. #81
    It's all in the reflexes Baker's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post
    Let's see how long it lasts before a copyright claim.

    Spoiler
    It didn't last long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilgore
    Balls Mahoney: Did you know Bret Hart was a Balls Mahoney fan? Well, he was a Xanta fan. I have no idea if he ever saw "Balls". Either way, a fun little tidbit for a guy who you would never assume was getting repped by The Hitman. If Balls couldn't work a lick, "Balls Mahoney from Nutley, New Jersey" with AC/DC's Big Balls is enough to get you a high ranking
    I was aware of Bret's Xanta fandom and I love that story because of how unexpected it is.

    I'm kicking myself for not harping on Balls' whole gimmick/persona more. The Balls Mahoney name alone is such a winner. It goes beyond simply a great wrestling name and into the realm of pure poetry. Now I'm tempted to write a George Plimpton Paris Review piece about his ne'er-do-well friend Balls Mahoney from Nutley, NJ.

    *So we've finally reached the Top 20. I'll release the Supplemental Countdown and maybe do some additional ECW ranting/listing before I start the Top 10.

    Masato Tanaka- Will forever be married to Mike Awesome in ECW lore. Their rivalry was a classic ECW workrate feud with two twists- they were heavyweights and it was taken to the xtreme (like even more than usual). A lot of your smarkier fans have soured on their rivalry claiming all the matches were the same and the first Awesome/Tanaka match you saw is bound to be your favorite. Can confirm. Anarchy Rulz '99 for me (Heatwave '98 for most). But I'll defend my choice. The addition & quick subtraction of ECW Champ Taz, coupled with the locker room emptying to see who would be their next Top Guy, made it feel like the biggest thing in the world. A Top 5 ECW match for me. Tanaka also feuded and teamed with Balls and had a shockingly bad match with Furnas on ppv. Good worker who got over but I honestly have trouble remembering his non-Awesome stuff. Think he finished a little high in cracking the Top 20. I had him at #35.

    Public Enemy- Here we go....

    Public Enemy is the worst. Let's get that out of the way first. Most, if not all, of the other top ECW acts I disliked (Douglas, Credible) at least had long stretches of 'good heat' periods with me. Not PE. I spent over 15 years sort of apologizing for not getting Public Enemy. "What am I missing here?" I'd ask myself over and over as I watched these shitstains stink up the joint yet again. Well, within the past year or two I finally realized it's not me. Public Enemy just fucking sucked. As bad as they were in the ring, the promos...MY GOD THE PROMOS...so awful. Are they legit badasses or are they supposed to be some sort of ironic "hoodie" comedy act? To this day I do not know and I suppose I never will.

    And yet I found myself in the unlikely position of rooting for this god awful act when tallying up the votes. They fell out of the Top 20 late in the voting process. That is just as shitty as Public Enemy! Because as bad as PE was, and they were awful, they were also a huge part of ECW at a time when the company was gaining momentum as the most innovative promotion in America. PE, along with Sabu, popularized table breaking. And wrestling was never the same again. PE got over as heels and had a real connection with the ECW faithful later as popular babyfaces. The ring breaking during a PE fan party and the chair shower are just two of the iconic ECW moments they were involved in. Their feuds with Sabu and the Gangstas are fondly remembered. Rocco Rock was at least out there trying with his rather unathletic chubby guy high flying. And in perhaps the ultimate testament of Heyman's genius, he got people, and I'm not just talking dumb marks here, but WON readers, Sleazy E & even Vinnie Mac himself to buy into these turds. They were the hottest tag team/free agent act around in late '95.

    So while I can count the number of Public Enemy matches I enjoyed on one hand- the APA match/beatdown (Yeah, I'm an asshole), the title loss to Cactus & Mikey was a fun moment, and I may have liked a few of their hardcore-lite matches with the Nasty Boys once upon a time (can't remember for sure), and their promos make me want to swear off wrestling forever, they were a hugely important part of the ECW story. #11 on my list* and it's borderline criminal they didn't crack the Top 15.

    Eliminators- I mentioned the importance of first impressions a few times already. The Eliminators scored a double knockout blow in the very first ECW match I ever saw. Based on that one match, an epic squash of the Dudleys to kick off Barely Legal, I was (briefly) convinced ECW was the greatest thing I had ever seen and the Eliminators were, at the very least, the 2nd greatest tag team of all time. And frankly only loyalty to muh Eaton/Lane Midnight Express kept me from calling the Elims thee GOAT....based on one 5 minute squash But what a performance it was! I had never seen guys that size do high flying moves and precision double teams like the Eliminators did. They were so on point that night. Unfortunately it was probably their greatest performance. They never again quite recaptured that magic. It took longer than you'd probably think but at some point I came to my senses and realized they weren't the 2nd greatest tag team of all time. Now I'm not even sure they were ever that good. I feel like they were wasted for most of '96 (their 'prime' year) in typical ECW-style brawls with the Gangstas that didn't play to their strengths. The matches with RVD & Sabu don't hold up all that well imo. Much like Taz, I don't like the Eliminators all that much in competitive matches. They were at their best unleashing their awesome offense on bump fiends in quick squashes. Still, Heyman managed to convince a large segment of 'smart' wrestling fans that these guys were the best tag team in the world for 18 months. They also had an all time great finisher in Total Elimination. #15 on my list.

    Bam Bam Bigelow- One of the ultimate "just there" wrestlers for me. Didn't appreciate his ECW run at the time. Probably due to my lifelong indifference to Bigelow. But looking back it absolutely smokes all his Big Two runs, though I think I'd still take his 80s Memphis run over anything else he did. Heyman knew how to book Bigelow and the big man delivered with some of his best work. The Taz feud was legit great. BBB ending Taz's TV title reign and long unbeaten streak by putting him through the ring was perfect. Taz getting his retribution on the ramp two months later, also perfect. The TV Title change with RVD was a good/memorable match. BBB also had memorable matches with Shane & Spike. I had the Triple Threat's enforcer at #20.

    *I was going to make a Hogan/Theoretical WWF Greatest Wrestler List comparison here and that got me to thinking about doing something like this for WCW & WWF in the future if there's interest. Would do WCW first. Then maybe break WWF up by decade starting with my beloved 90s.

  7. #82
    I feel kinda invincible Kilgore's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Baker View Post
    It didn't last long.
    To the Deepweb, I go (Dailymotion )
    Spoiler


    Masato Tanaka: Man, those FMW guys were just made for ECW. Like Super Crazy, you could have dropped Tanaka off in the ECW Arena, without him ever seeing the show, and it would have immediately seemed like he spent his entire career there. The Tanaka-Awesome feud crossing oceans to ECW where they took turns trying to break each other's necks is one of my favorite feuds of all time. Just two asskickers, kicking each other's asses. Heatwave '98 is my favorite match they had (I found out here, the final table spot didn't get the first Holy Shit chant, but it was the spot that popularized it.), although I loved all of them. I liked their matches during Awesome's title reign just a hair below (N2R '99, ECW on TNN 12/24/99). I can't really separate the two. I wish they were next to each other in the countdown ala Malenko/Guerrero, but I understand why they're not.

    Public Enemy: I ranked The Public Enemy at #7 on my list. I get it. Each passing year is going to be a like a decade that passes PE's reputation by, but when you consider what pro wrestling in America was in 1993/1994/1995, that's where PE lived, and PE were fucking awesome. In 1994, once Eastern became Extreme, ECW was selling tickets on the backs of PE and Sabu. They meant more to ECW in 1994/1995 than the Dudley's ever meant during their run. This is no slam on the Dudley's, who deserve their higher ranking to come, but let's be real, there's no Dudley's without PE, and they were never as important on the card as PE was during their peak. A criminally low rating for the Hoodies.

    Eliminators: I never had Eliminators as GOAT status, but in 1996/1997, I thought they were the best North American tag team going, which is quite a feat for our favorite little promotion that could to have the best anything as the Monday Night Wars are starting to heat up. How cool was Total Elimination? It shouldn't even be that cool. A sweep and spin kick on their own, nothing special, even in 1996. But together, it was the coolest ECW tag team finisher pre-3D. Now that Baker mentions it, it would have been nice to see the Eliminators with a more diverse set of dance partners. I never got tired of seeing Saturn elbow people from high places, but I suppose some more workrate centric matches would have better served them in the long run. Like even now, it's tough to start listing "great" Eliminators tag matches, because they didn't really have any. That does not make them less than great, though. Those were just their circumstances in ECW.

    Bam Bam Bigelow: As Shinobi has said in the past, "The Original Paul Heyman" guy, as Paul E. booked his debut match in 1985 (at Studio 54!), so it only made sense that Bammer eventually showed up in ECW. "You work for the WWF!" Bill Alfonso screamed as Bam Bam showed up in the beginning of 1996 (pre-Pillman in ECW, pre-Hall in WCW) and chased Taz out of the ring, so the "invading" wrestler trope was in the air, and Bam Bam vs. Taz was set up from the very first moments of his debut. Bammer does seem a bit high to me too, but he had a really good run in ECW. As everybody in the company had to job to Taz, Bigelow eventually doing it seemed like the biggest deal. He also gave RVD his first singles gold in a pretty goddamned good match in Buffalo (where RVD did the GOAT somersault dive into the crowd), and gave Shane Douglas one of his signature wins, as well. Bam Bam was very generous in his run. Finally, he threw Spike from the ring, over the guardrail and into the ECW Arena crowd, which was cooler than most people's entire careers.
    Last edited by Kilgore; 04-27-2017 at 01:07 AM.


  8. #83
    It's all in the reflexes Baker's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post
    To the Deepweb, I go (Dailymotion )
    Spoiler
    Nice find. Hadn't seen/didn't remember that. I give it 9 out of 10 Bubba Ray's.

  9. #84
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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    tajiri is why i liked the 1999 cruiserweights more than the 1995 rey/psycosis/juvi/konan saga. him, super crazy, and many others were constants there and got to develop their characters and evolve. ecw tajiri may be one of my favorite wrestling personas just because of how sadistic he was. taking a chunk out of someones skull and spitting it out with a fucked up smile. that shit wasn't gonna be on the big two. and then you think it was at the same time that WCW was unmasking and burying the cruisers, and here was ECW redefining that shit.

    Rocco Rock's segment from Barbed Wire City was my favorite part of that documentary. "I was doing flips and wrestling clean for years; and didn't make a penny doing it. I made my money bleeding, and going through tables and busting people with frying pans. that's how i earned my bread, that's what i'm sticking with." Joey Styles went into detail on how they were the furthest things from hoodies. Rocco Rock from New England, Grunge from Louisianna. Rocko Rock was around for a long time on the Northeast Independents as the lucha inspired Cheetah Kid and Grunge was a southern brawler for a while. Balls Mahoney said that Rock was the first person to go to him when he was starting out as a wrestler and say "look you don't want to be a wrestler, you don't know where your next pay check's coming from." that shows you where the Public Enemy came from, but i'm glad Balls didn't listen.

    I can see where Baker's coming from with the Public Enemy, but they were at the first ECW show i went to and i'm glad i got to see them. Rocco Rock could work and was willing to take some crazy table bumps. Grunge was really only good for bleeding and hitting people with weapons. but everyone loved them. as heel's they were alot more serious and actually got decent heat in 1994. fans hated them enough to bury them with chairs. i didn't like their goofy promo's they cut as faces either, but watching their matches with a 1995 mentality, it was about fans being involved, everyone getting a front row seat, handing them weapons, and pretty ridiculous stunts.

    I'm glad the Eliminators are a spot higher though. the public enemy may have set the tone for ECW tag teams, but Saturn and Kronos brought it to a new level. they were among the first of the acts during my early ECW experience that i was really invested in. I'd put that squash they did in Queens up there with any Road Warriors squash, and I grew up on the Road Warriors. I'll always be high on them because they always got a huge pop in Massachusetts. True, they didn't have many "great matches". but watching hardcore tv on a weekly basis, in and action movie/show what's gonna happen next way, Eliminators were kings. you knew when they came on, someone was gonna get killed. they had brutal double team moves and the gangstas feud story line was genius. loved Saturns promos and persona.

    I would honestly put the the Eliminators, Public Enemy and even the Pitbulls and Gangstas above the Dudleys. Dudley's were successful elsewhere, and had a hell of a legacy in ECW, but if we're talking just ECW, i think the Eliminators and Public Enemy had a more intense run. I kinda want to see an alternate reality where the Eliminators went to WCW and WWF and dominated the tag divisions there.
    Last edited by Fisto; 04-27-2017 at 04:39 AM.

  10. #85
    It's all in the reflexes Baker's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results


    #16
    10 Votes-322 Points
    Mike Awesome



    #15
    11 Votes-327 Points
    Mikey Whipwreck



    #14
    10 Votes-328 Points
    2 Cold Scorpio



  11. #86
    I feel kinda invincible Kilgore's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Mike Awesome: Awesome was not quite a Sabu/Mysterio astronaut, but he was pretty mind blowing to witness for the first time. He had to be the first man that size to do springboards, certainly the first I saw. The balance he had on the top rope while powerbombing people frontwards and backwards, he really was a freak athlete. Joey Styles used to love to use Awesome to take digs at every other big man in wrestling, "Most people Mike Awesome's size never leave their feet, BROTHER".I missed his first ECW run, although I had seen him bend JT Smith backwards numerous times in The Night The Line Was Crossed ad, so it wasn't until the ECW/FMW duels shows in late '97/early 98 that I saw "The Gladiator" show himself to be the coolest big man wrestler I had ever seen, which was a great appetizer for his cup of coffee run in the summer of '98. Fun tidbit, first time I learned the term "mullet" was seeing a sign at either the Elk's Lodge or ECW Arena that said, "Awesome Mullet", during a Mike Awesome match in 1998. Awesome and Tanaka were immediately over that same show.

    I have mixed feelings about Awesome's title run. I should hate it completely. Dude walks in for the first time in over a year, pins Taz and Tanaka on the same night to become champion. It was a little much, but Awesome had left a big enough impression on me where I was sort of okay with it. Where it fell flat was immediately after, where it felt weird that the first ECW Champion of the TNN era, which I still had a little optimism for, was basically a stranger in the ECW universe. It felt off. Awesome had some really good matches, though. The matches against Tanaka at N2R and the Christmas Eve show in 1999 were awesome. The Spike Dudley defense was better than it had any right being. But then it quickly ran out of steam. ECW's roster was thin, and Awesome couldn't make up for lack of challenges, being bad on the mic, and being uncompelling in every other aspect of wrestling. RVD beating him would have been one of the best ECW moments ever, but it wasn't to be.

    I have to talk about the departure. It was inexcusable. It's been a long time, so I'm not positive, but I believe Awesome's checks were bouncing, which certainly gave him a right to leave, but there was obviously a better way to do it than embarrass ECW so his WCW debut could be rushed for Russo/Bischoff's "Reboot". Him jobbing out in front of a crowd that genuinely wanted to kill him made up for it some. Awesome fucked up, and I think he knew it. I'm glad he got to wrestle One Night Stand, where he got a better ECW end, wrestling his rival in another classic.

    Mikey Whipwreck: "Mikey likes it!" Mikey is like a child star. He peaked he really young and spent the rest of his career trying to catch up to it. The Mikey Whipwreck rise was spectacular booking. In 1994, they made a big deal out of Mikey getting an offensive move. Forget about winning, Mikey hit a clothesline. This was a huge deal. Then he got a pin. And then another one. Then he had a title. And then another one. Finally, the culmination, and ECW Title win in late '95 (and a great TV title feud with Scorpio in the following months). It was mostly downhill for Mikey after that, even squeezing in a bad WCW run that most people forget about. He had a nice rebound in the final year of ECW with the Unholy Alliance, which was a nice reminder of what made Mikey so lovable in the early days, albeit, a psychotic version.



    2 Cold Scorpio: The first episode of ECW I ever saw was September/October 1995. It had a six man cage match where five of the participants were the most insane characters you would only see in ECW (Public Enemy, Whipwreck, Sandman, New Jack ), which was probably the greatest introduction I could have. My prior non-WWF/WCW watching consisted of seeing the USWA, where Koko B. Ware might be champion, and even if you liked Koko, you immediately knew you were watching the minor leagues if he was champion there. ECW having five lunatics I had never seen made it feel like a different world. Except Sandman and New Jack's partner was 2 Cold Scorpio. I knew 2 Cold Scorpio. Seeing his 450 splash on WCW television blew my mind a couple years prior. This is way before I thought of things like "workrate", I certainly wouldn't have used that term, but 2 Cold was somebody I liked in that way, even I couldn't have yet expressed it. Seeing him in this environment that seemed to value that was the last bit of the sell job ECW gave me that night, although truthfully, I didn't need to be sold any more.

    Scorpio got the run in ECW he deserved. If he came around a few years later, WCW probably would have used him better, but he came just before WCW had the right dance partners for him. In ECW, he had those partners (Sabu, Malenko, Guerrero, Benoit, Whipwreck, Taz, Douglas, Chris Jericho), a brief tag team with Ron Simmons, and fantastic odd couple pairing with Sandman where they eventually bonded over dancing and getting rid of Nancy so they could be BFF's (Scorpio carrying Nancy out twice, and throwing her ass in a limo headed towards Atlanta was great). 2 Cold got to show personality in ECW. Cocky heel Scorpio was my favorite. He could be a pretty fantastic asshole, best shown in his swan song at November to Remember 1996. The crowd knew he signed with WWF, as they were already airing "Flash Funk" vignettes, so he was booked in a Loser Leaves Town match that everybody knew he would lose. Except he didn't. He beat JT Smith. Then he beat Hack Myers. Then he beat Devon Storm. These weren't exactly the cream of the crop of ECW, but Scorpio was sending half the ECW locker room out of town, when it should have been him. He was talking shit the entire time, grabbing the mic in between matches. It was fantastic. Louie Spicoli finally beat him, and then Taz sent him packing with a, "Bye-bye, Flash", but it was a pretty spectacular exit. Scorpio was one of those early 90's workrate guys that set the table up for others to succeed, and the best work the workrate guy did was in ECW.
    Last edited by Kilgore; 04-27-2017 at 11:50 PM.


  12. #87
    Senior Member The Icon's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Great write-ups guys, I'll probably just be repeating what most of you have said already but here it goes.

    Masato Tanaka- I did see a few of his run ins with the Gladiator in FMW before they renewed there rivalry in ECW which were good but didn't have that ECW atmosphere to give it the extra punch. Other than Mick Foley I don't think anyone else has taken harder chair shots than Tanaka. Plus add in all of those Awesome bombs and I don't know how he is still alive and functioning today. He didn't do much else though besides feuding with Awesome so I couldn't really pair them together. Their N2R encounter is easily one of my top 10 ECW matches of all time between Tanaka's bumps and Awesome's athleticism, one of the most visually stunning feuds of all time for any promotion.

    Public Enemy- The OG's when it comes to dominating the Extreme tag team division, a mantle that would be passed on to the Gangstas, The Eliminators, then the Dudley's. Honestly I think the kayfabe success of the Dudley's influenced my list a bit much, I should have switched them around. PE was the first team to popularize the use of tables and were involved in two of the most replayed scenes in ECW history with the mountain of chairs and the fan made ring collapse. I actually found humor in their promos, taking them at face value as two guys impersonating two suburban thugs. I actually liked their babyface run against the Gangstas the best just because of the contrast in characters, two posers and the real deal. They were a huge part of the fabric of what made ECW into what it was and deserved a higher ranking, especially by me.

    The Eliminators- To this day I still haven't seen a tag team like them, two athletic stocky guys who used flashy offense to just squash other teams. They had some of the most dynamic double team moves I've ever seen. They looked so effective that they were a great alternative to the overpowering squashes I was used to with the Road Warriors and Demolition. I also remember them being a highlight of "Pulp Fiction Promos" with their off the wall style. I think Kilgore hit the nail on the head though as they didn't have a lot of great opponents which is why I think they get overlooked in the grand scheme of tag team wrestling. I think an extended feud with Sabu and RVD would have been the ticket for them to get the recognition they justly deserve.

    Bam Bam Bigelow- I haven't seen much of Bammer's Memphis run but I think ECW got the most out of his talent. The big knock on Bam Bam was that his offense wasn't devastating enough for someone his size. A toss of Spike Dudley into the crowd and pseudo Samoan dropping Taz through the ring put an end to that for me. His matches with Shane Douglas were some of my favorites as well and showcased just how good a worker he was. Plus he came up with Greetings From Asbury Park (big Springsteen fan here) one of the best updates (from the diving headbutt) and names of a finisher of all time which gives bonus points to his ECW run.

    Mike Awesome- If there was ever a guy the ECW crowd was going to shit on upon first sight it would be Mike Awesome. That name, the hair, the physique were all low hanging fruit for the crowd to feast on, but wait, he had athleticism and some street cred from FMW. No one can touch Mike Awesome when it comes to athletic "supermen" in the vein of Hogan, Sid, Taker etc. His top rope powerbombs were a thing of beauty to go with those suicide dives into the barricade. His other work with Taz, Spike Dudley and Kid Kash helped separate him from his rival Masato Tanaka. Again a tremendous feud and one of the top 5 rivalries in ECW history. His leaving ECW abruptly left a bad taste in my mouth too but he made it all right again at One Night Stand. A fitting finale to a career that was cut much too short.

    Mikey Whipwreck- One of Paul E's great creations, the ring crew guy who gets a break. Plus the way it was booked with Mikey getting virtually no offense in his matches was brilliant and effective in getting the crowd behind him even more. As Kilgore alluded to his team with Cactus Jack was good comedy mixed in with some hardcore classics with the likes of Public Enemy and Sandman and Dreamer. Once he got the ECW title though there was really nowhere else to go with the character and he floundered. He was actually in the first ECW match I ever saw from Hardcore Heaven '96 against Shane Douglas that really wasn't memorable otherwise. He will forever be remembered though as ECW's greatest underdog.

    2 Cold Scorpio- It was a shock to me at first to find out that this gregarious and flashy high flyer had to stoop to mingling with the misfits in ECW after showing such promise in WCW. He fit right in though as his match with Sabu at Cyberslam can attest, another ECW classic that was my first viewing of Scorp in the company. He did a great job in that match of playing the cocky heel and working the crowd. Later I would get into his series of matches with Dean Malenko and Eddie Guerrero which were as expected, great. It was his promo work that got fleshed out though and he became much more than just the stylish high flyer. His value went up significantly to me and he could have been a much bigger player in the mainstream had Vince had any idea of what he was doing. I guess he missed those parts of the show with Scorp ripping on the ECW mainstays at N2R '96 for example. Kilgore detailed it already and I agree that it was a great bit of "screw the audience" type booking with the ultimate payoff at the end.


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    9. The Gangstas
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    12. The Eliminators
    13. The Bad Breed
    14. Dean Malenko
    15. Eddie Guerrero
    16. Public Enemy
    17. Mikey Whipwreck
    18. 2 Cold Scorpio
    19. Rey Mysterio
    20. Mike Awesome
    21. Jimmy Snuka
    22. Don Muraco
    23. Bam Bam Bigelow
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    26. Sabu and RVD
    27. Tajiri
    28. The Pitbulls
    29. Masato Tanaka
    30. Steve Austin
    31. Super Crazy
    32.
    33. Lance Storm
    34. Chris Candido
    35. The Impact Players
    36. Chris Jericho
    37. Spike Dudley
    38. Steve Corino
    39. Justin Credible
    40. Balls Mahoney
    41. 911
    42. Rhino
    43. Al Snow
    44. Tommy Cairo
    45. The Chair Swingin' Freaks
    46. Chris Candido and Lance Storm
    47. Hack Myers
    48. Psicosis
    49. The FBI (Tracy Smothers and Little Guido)
    50. Nova
    Last edited by The Icon; 04-28-2017 at 03:16 PM.

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    Moderator UT's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    It took everything in my being for me not to put Awesome in my top three. I still probably overrated him by quite a bit but he might be my favorite ECW star of all time and if not than he is definitely top three. He was just incredible for a big man and had he not went to WCW and subsequently ruined his career I feel he could of been a big deal in the wrestling business for a period of time.

  14. #89
    It's all in the reflexes Baker's Avatar

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    Mike Awesome- I missed Heatwave '98 but was aware of the hype when I first saw Awesome at Anarchy Rulz '99 where the athletic big man defeated Tanaka and Taz (in like 2 minutes!) in an awesome match to become the new ECW Champion a few weeks into the TNN run. It wasn't ideal. I was like all those "Bryan or bust" WWE fans a few years ago. Anything other than RVD being THE guy to usher ECW into a new era (I even fantasy booked a plausible scenario!) would be less than ideal in my view. But I was still on board with Awesome....at least in the short term. In that one match he showed himself to be an amazingly athletic big man with power moves just as cool as his flying. I was ready to accept him as ECW's new top guy....for a while.

    But the magic didn't last long. I was honestly over Awesome within 5 weeks. Just remember being at the October '99 ECW Arena show thinking "why is this guy champion?" His goofy look (think I also learned the mullet was a thing due to Awesome) and mediocre promos were a turnoff while saddling him with the awful Judge Jeff Jones as manager was an even bigger nail in his coffin. Plus I wasn't sure whether he was supposed to be face or heel for a few months. And the only real feud he ever had as champion involved his career rival Tanaka coming in for a match or two here and there. The Awesome experiment was quickly becoming an awesome flop in my eyes.

    To be fair, I never saw the highly regarded Tanaka TNN matches. 1999 was the real time peak of my ECW fandom. I went to 6 (out of 8) Arena shows within 8 months, ordered the first 5 PPVs of the year, spent a lot of time posting on Strictly ECW, and was still buying classic ECW tapes (though not quite as much as I did in '98 due to having already bought a lot of the most hyped shows). I was so excited about getting to finally watch ECW every week on TNN. I legit thought they were going to take WCW's spot as the #2 promotion in the US within months and might even compete with WWF if everything worked out. But just a few short months into their TNN run the tapes sat there gathering dust (I was usually out doing something on Friday nights so I taped ECW on TNN). With Raw, Smackdown, my beloved Shotgun (which I was also watching less of), PPVs, and even Heat, coupled with a more active social life, ECW tv soon stopped being a priority. My interest went from 10/10- on par with WWF- to like a 5/10 pretty damn quick. The point of all this rambling is I think ECW Champ Mike Awesome played a role in this declining interest.

    And all this took place even before he Lex Lugered the company. Nobody in wrestling had more heat with me than Mike Awesome in April 2000. I legit hated him for a while there because I cared way too much about dudes fake fighting in those days. My all time favorite ECW guy Taz winning the title on loan from WWE in front of a crowd ready to lynch Awesome is one of the last great ECW moments imo.

    I've mellowed out on the Benedict Arnold of ECW and now I'm more or less in agreement with Kilgore on the whole fiasco. Awesome will forever be known for two things- his neverending feud with Tanaka and screwing over ECW. Due to his relatively short stints I 'only' had him at #25.

    Mikey Whipwreck- Was an odd duck. I didn't know what to make of this guy when first reading about him in the Apter Mags. He didn't even weigh 200 pounds! Yet he was an ECW Triple Crown champion! The idea of a sub-200 pound wrestler was completely foreign to me, let alone the idea of one becoming champion of a semi-major company. Even the Whipwreck name invoked feelings of bewilderment. What was a Whipwreck? Well, I had a theory. Not being particularly hip, I thought perhaps it was a slang term. One of the few (only?) pics I saw of Whipwreck had him wearing a bandanna with a stern facial expression and an ominous looking t-shirt featuring a skull. He looked like a badass! Yes, I initially thought Mikey Whipwreck was a badass Plus he weighed 187 pounds and I knew what 1-8-7 meant. So I thought maybe a Whipwreck was like a Drive By? Or in wrestling parlance, a sneak attack. Like Blue Meanie might Whipwreck a lower ranked guy, say Duke The Dumpster, to send a message to Jerry Lawler in the action figure league. (Meanie was totally psychotic in the action figure league because, duh, he's a Meanie) Mentally I could only come up with two scenarios in which a sub-200 pounder could ever be a major champion....

    1. Be a crazy high flyer but I didn't even have a real basis for this. 1-2-3 Kid or Hakushi was about the 'craziest high flier' I could mentally picture. Hell, I probably still viewed 80s Bobby Eaton as a 'crazy high flyer.' Rey Mysterio would have seemed like an alien from another planet to me at this point. When my friend Rick first described the Shooting Star Press I didn't even believe it was humanly possible

    2. Be psychotic.

    *I assumed Whipwreck was #2 and he went around Whipwrecking people left & right with his badass gangsta ways.

    After those first few months Whipwreck seemed to fall off the face of the earth. He was rarely mentioned in the Apter Mags. He missed the first two ECW pay per views. It wasn't until November To Remember '97 that I finally saw Mikey. I was unimpressed. He was just a guy wrestling just another guy in Justin Credible.

    It wasn't until I saw his tag title win w/ Cactus over Public Enemy (plus a promo or two) some time in 1998 that I finally understood what Mikey was all about. I liked him well enough in the underdog babyface role.

    Don't know if I ever told this story, and I hadn't thought about it in years, but I was also AOL buddies with Whipwreck in 1998 (ECWWHIPPER was his handle). He was very accommodating! Always had time for my mark questions and acted just like any other fan. We frequently discussed the latest Raw (I want to say he was a fellow Rock fan) and he was a big fan of classic Florida Championship Wrestling. He even did an exclusive interview for our WKO Newzletter! Our rival internet clique, those bastards from No Life 4 Life were devastated. Major win for the good guys. Mikey even offered to get me free ECW Arena tix once or twice but I had no way of getting to Philly at the time

    Random Fun Fact: I also bought tapes from a young, unknown Necro Butcher around this time.

    Kilgore comparing Mikey to a child star is accurate. Mikey was very much a one year wonder. I'm conflicted on the booking of Mikey. On one hand it obviously worked in the short term but I can't help thinking it was too much too soon. Mikey, your lovable loser, literally wins every title within a year. It's like how can he be the underdog anymore? Plus it left him with nothing to shoot for after that. His story was already complete. He spent the next few years just being a directionless midcard guy. I enjoyed many of his matches, underrated gems from mid-96 with Sabu & Shane in particular, but they were rather meaningless. Maybe they should have turned Mikey into a cocky heel as "The Guy Who Beat Steve Austin?" And he could have ranted about winning the ECW Triple Crown faster than anybody. Oh, the Cactus farewell match was also lots of fun. Mikey is probably underrated as wrestler.

    Mikey played the underdog babyface role well. His rather unathletic flying and general lack of quality offense worked for his character. Mikey was all heart...a guy busting his ass to compensate for his small stature and lack of real athleticism. Mikey, even more than most, sacrificed his body for the company. I can't definitively call him the best bumper in the company because there were like a dozen other guys who were 9/10-10/10 bumpers but Mikey is definitely in the conversation. And all it really got him was being cast aside for the latest 'Mikey' in Spike Dudley and a forgettable 6 month run in WCW. I was at The Arena when he returned. He got a respectful pop and the mandatory "Welcome Back" chants but it was honestly one of the smaller ECW return pops I witnessed live. Felt like even the ECW loyalists had moved on from Mikey. By all accounts, he did recapture some of his old magic teaming with Tajiri. So I'm happy my old AOL buddy got to go out on a high note. Unfortunately that was it for Mikey. There would be no WWE contract or even a TNA run. I saw him compete once a few years later in ROH. He looked horrible- Fat and could barely move- He wasn't even 30 yet.

    #17 on my list and I can't believe I wrote this much about Mikey Whipwreck of all people

    2 Cold Scorpio- Like Icon, I was a fan of Scorpio in WCW which means you know he was good considering I was rarely a fan of babyfaces in those days (though 93-94 WCW did have more than most with Cactus, Flair, Scorp, Maxx Payne, and Arn to some extent). High flying Scorpio in the wild world of ECW seemed like a perfect fit. One of the first ECW matches I read about in the Apter Mags was a seemingly mind-blowing Sabu/Scorp contest featuring multiple amounts of all the coolest moves I knew- frankensteiners, moonsaults, powerbombs, dives, suplexes, etc. It was also cool to read about Scorp, who I pegged as a future star in '93 WCW, being treated as an upper tier guy in ECW.

    But I was actually disappointed when I finally got around to seeing Scorp in ECW. ECW Scorpio is just about the most frustrating wrestler ever. He basically hits a dozen cool moves per match (Scorp is one of my all time favorite high flyers. Gets huge hang time on everything and, unlike a Sydal or a Jack Evans, his stuff actually looks like it hurts. Scorp is a pretty big guy and lands with some serious impact) that I'd buy as finishers but instead of going for covers he'll just wander around the ring twirling his fingers for a minute. Or sometimes he'll go for covers only to let the guy up at 2. And do some more finger twirling. So. Much. Finger. Twirling. More than once I found myself yelling at my tv like a moron during Scorpio ECW matches- "JUST PIN THE GUY ALREADY!" "STOP TWIRLING YOUR FINGERS!" Like it's far more egregious than RVD's sins imo. Really one of my biggest wrestling pet peeves. Scorp is also another in a long line of ECW guys where I often wasn't sure whether he was supposed to be heel or face.

    My favorite ECW Scorp moment is his November To Remember farewell that others have mentioned. Great heel performance with the perfect ending. Scorp is the 3rd or 4th best TV champ in ECW history. He was involved in the legendary 4 Way for the TV title and had memorable matches with Sabu & Douglas. Thanks to Kilgore for explaining the origins of the Sandman/Scorpio tag team. That was another seemingly random ECW tag team I never understood or got behind.

    Scorp would make sporadic ECW appearances after leaving for WWF at November To Remember '96. Going to WWF was a bad career move. They never used him well. It would be fun to fantasy book a scenario in which Scorp never left ECW. I kept waiting for him to come back with a big push after his '99 WWF release but it was not to be. I think Vader got him a good gig with AJPW/NOAH. Agree with Kilgore that Scorp had really bad timing. Think he'd have done better, and been much more remembered, had he come around just two years later.

    I had him at #16 on my list.
    Last edited by Baker; 04-28-2017 at 11:22 PM.

  15. #90
    It's all in the reflexes Baker's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results


    #13
    10 Votes-347 Points
    Jerry Lynn



    #12
    10 Votes-360 Points
    New Jack



    #11
    11 Votes-371 Points
    Stevie Richards


  16. #91
    Member Fisto's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    like Shane Douglas in 1996, Bam Bam Bigelow in 1997/8 was showing the WWF what they were missing out on in his matches with Spike, Sabu, Shane, RVD and Taz. I was at Living Dangerously and would put that match as one of the greatest ever. He also had a hell of a match with Masato Tanaka that might be as good as the Mike Awesome matches. i do wish Tanaka had more feuds with guys other than Awesome, Balls, and Dudleys, but i remember a good match he had with RVD. dude was eating brain damaging chair shots at grimy house shows.

    my first time seeing Whipwreck was in a match with Sandman that was reviewed on American Hardcore Theatre were they hardway beat the shit out of each other with a ladder and the guardrail. I was instantly a fan. that feud was amazing and him winning the title was a great moment. i think Mikey got the biggest pop of the night at the first show i went to when he defended the title against the Sandman. they even brought the ladder to the dirty rec center. I watched through all of 93/94/95 ecw years ago, and that tv title reign with him getting destroyed in every match was a highlight of the eastern days and i think the only title reign like that. loved his saga with Sabu. among the best matches of either of their careers. something about Mikey was that he worked with every technical wrestler that was in ECW from 95-96. paul definitely had confidence in him hanging there with Malenko, Benoit, Scorpio, Jericho, Candido and Eliminators.

    one thing that is haunting about him though is when you look at how much wrestling affected him physically, and then you re-watch those Cactus jack anti hardcore promos with him talking about what hard wrestling would do to him.

    Jerry Lynn i think represented ECW more than anyone. what made ECW great to me was that i heard a story where someone had to follow up a Dudleys/Balls/Axl bloodbath and asked Heyman how he was supposed to follow that. "If you can't follow it, you don't belong in the main event." no bullshit politics telling midcarders they can't perform to their fullest. lynn was just about done with assholes bitching at him for doing his job and "making them work harder." in Ecw, whether he was in the main event or opening, no one was gonna stop him from doing all he could do.
    Last edited by Fisto; 04-29-2017 at 02:37 PM.

  17. #92
    American Ninja ShinobiMusashi's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Damn, we're already to the top 10! I wish I had more time, some great posts in here. I put Public Enemy over the Dudley Boys on my list but thinking about it I think I still put them too low. I think Kilgore's #7 is about where they belong, definitely top 10 when you consider all of the criteria, kayfabe accomplishments, drawing/business importance, in-ring performances, overness as heels and faces, longevity, and just the fact that I really really like them. There is just a certain charm about Public Enemy that appeals to me, probably because their ECW characters remind me of my two uncles so much. These two uncles lived with us a lot when I was growing up, watching Public Enemy in ECW reminds me so much of them even though my uncles weren't gangsta type dudes they were just always up to no good. At one point when I was a kid we lived in a pretty rough part of Houston called Greenspoint. It's a miracle that my uncles and my dad weren't killed while we lived there, one weekend I remember my parents made us kids hide in a closet because they ripped off some big time crack dealer in the neighborhood. I've heard them tell a story about how some dudes kicked in my grandma's door looking for them because they got hustled out of some money, one of my uncles was in the house and was able to hide in the shower, they didn't find him because he had the shower curtain about 3/4's of the way open so they never bothered to check the shower. Close call!

    There's that, and you got to think about what ECW was in 93-94, little indy fed that made it by with older wrestlers passing through, big names like Snuka and Funk, indy smart mark darlings like Sabu, but with Public Enemy ECW was able to create an original act out of nothing, an act that resonated with working class lower income household people that lived in those South Philly neighborhoods of 1994-1995, I think maybe a good portion of fans that Public Enemy drew to shows at that time were casual fans and not necessarily smart marks. Public Enemy were one of the pioneer acts that ECW was built on their backs. If there was an ECW Hall of Fame, Public Enemy would have to be in the charter class, usually the charter class of any Hall of Fame is reserved for the OG's that paved the path, that was Public Enemy in ECW. They headlined as heels and got great heat, they headlined as babyfaces and brought fun and dancing to the dark extreme world of ECW, then their theme song hit the ECW Arena turned into a fucking episode of Soul Train, everyone would start dancing and waving their arms.





    So Public Enemy was ECW's first home grown act that caught on with casual marks. I first seen them in WCW probably around 96 and I liked them because I was obsessed with tables being broken in pro wrestling, I liked Public Enemy in WCW because you knew you were going to see that happen every time they wrestled. I didn't first realize their greatness in ECW until I watched through the old tapes for my American Hardcore Theater project here on PW back in 2012-2013. Public Enemy was a different animal in ECW, I would love to see somebody book them in WWF '95-'96 because I think they would have fit in really well in that era.


    ^G.O.A.T ECW theme song, you ain't gonna hear this shit on WWE Network, naughty by nature, violent by design: Public Enemy in ECW 4 LIFE!

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    13. Public Enemy
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    18. Super Crazy
    19. Lance Storm
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    22. Eddie Guerrero
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    24. Dean Malenko
    25. Rey Mysterio
    26. Steve Corino
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    29. Chris Jericho
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    31. Justin Credible
    32. Doring & Roadkill
    33. Al Snow
    34. Spike Dudley
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    36. Pit Bull 2
    37. Chris Candido
    38. Axl Rotten
    39. 911
    40. Nova
    41. The Unholy Alliance Mikey Whipreck & Yoshihiro Tajiri
    42. Guido
    43. Eddie Gilbert
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    45. The Gangstas
    46. Kid Kash
    47. Jazz
    48. Steve Austin
    49. Brian Pillman
    50. Hack Myers
    Last edited by ShinobiMusashi; 04-29-2017 at 01:35 PM.

  18. #93
    American Ninja ShinobiMusashi's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    I remember I bought Anarchy Rulz 99 to see Taz and Sabu, at the time it was such a punch in the gut to see Taz get eliminated from that 3 way in just a few minutes, I had no idea really who Tanaka or Awesome were so it was like a big WTF moment for me. It didn't take long at all for Tanaka and Awesome to completely win me over though, another big reason why I stopped watching WCW and WWF and just went strictly ECW, nobody I knew that was into pro wrestling was into ECW on TNN and boy were they missing out on some awesome shit on Friday nights.

    Eliminators are one of those ECW acts that benefited from me not being able to really see them much, only brief highlights here and there and pictures and descriptions in magazines, the little bit I seen and heard about them created this image that was impossible for the real thing to live up to. Watching through the tapes a few years ago I was a little disappointed that the Eliminators did not live up to this epic image I had of them in my head. Still their moves and overall look and attitude was fucking awesome to me, I just can't help but feel like it wouldn't have taken much for them to have been way way better than what they really were. So many of their matches just have no direction and Kronus acting like a court jester and doing stupid shit in matches kind of killed the buzz sometimes. Still so many great moments though in their 2 year run. I'd still say they were my personal favorite ECW tag team of all time.

    Favorite Eliminators highlight video:
    Spoiler


    Bam Bam was a favorite of mine in WWF during his day, then seeing him in ECW being presented as a much more legit threat was awesome to me, plus I thought GNR Welcome to the Jungle was an excellent entrance tune for him. The Taz vs Bigelow feud is one of my favorite in ECW history, loved the build up to their match at Living Dangerously. Also loved all his matches against RVD, to me these were the matches that were the turning point in RVD's career that pushed him through the glass ceiling he had hit.

    Jerry Lynn is one of the guys I left off of my original list that I sent Baker. I'm embarrassed to admit it, not sure what I was thinking. I combed through ECW results for every year to get a list of 50 guys narrowed down, just a flat out brain fart on my behalf to leave him off that 50 along with the other guy. I'm glad that Baker asked about this so I could fix it. Lynn is in about 3-4 of my favorite ECW matches of all time. I didn't like his heel turn in 2000, it just didn't work for me, he was more like the Ricky Steamboat of ECW to me. I do also think it would have been better if he could have actually been booked to win against RVD in at least 1 of their marquee matches early on, it would have made that feud/series a lot more interesting if Lynn won every once in a while, would have given RVD a better rival later on when it was time for him to move up to the ECW World Title picture.

    New Jack was always one of my favorites long before I ever read about his exploits that draw death wishes from the IWC. I do think a lot of his "incidents" are way overrated by the type of people who put the word Marks in the term Smart Marks, I don't mean that as in people who think wrestling is real but the kind of marks that get ripped off when they try to buy a dimebag. With that said there are a couple of things he's done where I can at least understand why he is so hated. I can't help but feel like some of the hate for him is just for the simple fact that he's a loud mouth black guy, if he were white it probably wouldn't be so extreme. White college guys that grow up in the suburbs with internet access generally tend to not like those types. I just always liked his personality, the way he would fuck people up with Natural Born Killaz playing, and the balcony dives were just insane to me. He was a great character and is grossly underrated on the mic, cuts a lot of outstanding promos, would have been a massive star if he was ever given a shot in the WWE during the Attitude Era. if I'm rebooking ECW 2000 I'd probably push him as the top guy ECW World Champ. He's the original gangsta of pro wrestling, any other gangsta type of character that comes after him is just not as good and nowhere near as authentic, like lunatic fringe types trying to be Brian Pillman or muscled up behemoth's on undefeated streaks trying to be Goldberg.



    Good New Jack promos in ECW(that first one is one of my favorite promos of all time):

    Spoiler


    I've already mentioned before how much I liked Stevie Richards' character arc in ECW from 94 up until he left for WCW in 97, it's like a great arc from a good TV show spread out over multiple seasons or something. What he started out as and where he ended up was great to watch when I was watching through the old tapes in order.

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    8. New Jack
    9.
    10.
    11. The Eliminators
    12. Sabu & RVD
    13. Public Enemy
    14. Yoshihiro Tajiri
    15.
    16. Stevie Richards
    17. Jerry Lynn
    18. Super Crazy
    19. Lance Storm
    20. 2 Cold Scorpio
    21. Mike Awesome
    22. Eddie Guerrero
    23. Masato Tanaka
    24. Dean Malenko
    25. Rey Mysterio
    26. Steve Corino
    27. Balls Mahoney
    28. Bam Bam Bigelow
    29. Chris Jericho
    30. Pit Bulls
    31. Justin Credible
    32. Doring & Roadkill
    33. Al Snow
    34. Spike Dudley
    35. Mikey Whipreck
    36. Pit Bull 2
    37. Chris Candido
    38. Axl Rotten
    39. 911
    40. Nova
    41. The Unholy Alliance Mikey Whipreck & Yoshihiro Tajiri
    42. Guido
    43. Eddie Gilbert
    44. Rhino
    45. The Gangstas
    46. Kid Kash
    47. Jazz
    48. Steve Austin
    49. Brian Pillman
    50. Hack Myers
    Last edited by ShinobiMusashi; 04-29-2017 at 01:58 PM.

  19. #94
    Senior Member Fezz's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Bam #24- I liked his work with spike+triple Threat. I was in Asbury Park when he and Tazz went through the ring, I spilled beer on a wiseguy, lucky to leave with my life.

    Tanaka #11- Mike awesome matches were SICK. He ate the heaviest chair-shots-barely fazed him.

    Awesome #12- He was a freak. He was very fast for a giant. Looked great wearing the Gold.

    Too Cold #13- Liked him tagging with Sand. Live he was astonishing. He should have been bigger.

    Mikey #14- His 'scared" tagging with Cactus was A+. Beating Sand and Stone Cold for the strap=GREAT booking.

    Stevie#21- Could have made top 10. I was there at 3way vs Terry+Sand. WOW! Watched Dr, Death pummel him outside the ring during Rage in Cage '95-one of the worst beatings I ever witnessed. Comedic genius with BWO.

    New Jack #7- Hate to tell you this, he wa a sweet guy OUTSIDE the ring. His leaps were EVIL. Loved his work vs The Eliminators. A misunderstood man.

    Jerry Lynn I forgot. He should be in my top 15. RVD matches were beyond stiff.
    "Don't break the Kayfabe"

  20. #95
    I feel kinda invincible Kilgore's Avatar

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    Default Re: ECW Greatest Wrestler Countdown Results

    Jerry Lynn: First time I saw Jerry Lynn was against Justin Credible in his As Good As It Gets debut. It might have been Jerry's debut too. Back then, and in the immediate months, I couldn't imagine a scenario where I'd become a Jerry Lynn fan. He looked straight out of the 80s, and his offense was very early 90's high flyer guy, that already seemed outdated, like each year of new ECW "workrate" guys were starting to have some serious diminishing returns. I think by A Matter of Respect '98, I was starting to begrudgingly respect him, though. Jerry was just a total pro who was consistently having good matches. By Heatwave '98, I finally understood he was just a throwback babyface, not all that different from Tommy Dreamer, but a much better worker (all these matches were against Justin Credible with Heatwave '98 being the best). The RVD rivalry, which became The Whole Fucking Show vs. The New Fucking Show, made Jerry Lynn an ECW made man. Without that, he probably has a Chris Candido type ranking, but that catapulted him into an all time great ECW guy, and even a future world champion. I was a huge RVD mark, and I found myself pulling for Jerry to finally get a win during that rivalry, that's how well done it was. Hardcore Heaven '99 was their masterpiece, with Jerry wrestling much of the match with a legitimately broken face, making him one of the most hardcore motherfuckers of all time, which was an added bonus for a guy who was outworking pretty much everybody in 1999. I think the biggest part of Jerry's appeal, besides the great wrestling, was this obvious likeability. If you went to a live show, you'd see Jerry in the ring waiting for his opponent, singing along to that wrestler's theme music with the rest of the crowd (he always sang along to Pantera's Walk, every single time). It seemed like there was nowhere in the world he would have rather been, and how could you not root for that guy? NEW FUCKING SHOW! NEW FUCKING SHOW! NEW FUCKING SHOW!

    New Jack: I was going to bemoan New Jack not being in the Top 10, but I had him at #11, so I'm just as much to blame. ECW was deep. New Jack, as a character, is as revolutionary as anything else in ECW. There was never a guy like that before New Jack. A gangsta rapper comes alive in a wrestling ring, talking about the realest shit a Black wrestler ever got to talk about on a wrestling show. Paul E. perfectly protected his inefficiencies as a wrestler with the Gangsta garbage wrestling matches, and I use that term lovingly, with Natural Born Killaz blaring, like an action movie sequence just spontaneously appeared in the middle of a wrestling show. Singles New Jack carried the ECW flag as well as anybody. This was the only place in the world that was going to let him do what he was doing. New Jack was his own attraction in ECW. He didn't need a belt, he didn't even necessarily need a feud. He could come out any point, not unlike 911 in the early days, beat the shit out of everybody in the ring, and get one of the loudest pops of the night. A new representative for us bloodthirsty fans. New Jack in ECW was as over as anybody was anywhere.

    Stevie Richards: "The King of Swing," "Big Stevie Cool," "Dancin' Stevie Richards," is one of ECW's greatest "What could have beens" and yet he still finds himself practically in the Top 10. I equate him and Dreamer together, as the two young guys in ECW who grew before our eyes, one going with Raven, one going against Raven. It's like a grunge Force and Darkside. Stevie was the prototype of Corino, as the perceived joke, who eventually becomes World Title material. Except he got hurt, and then went to WCW. The whole arch got cut short. I always thought it was weird that Stevie didn't get a full fledged ECW return between WCW and WWF. I don't know if Paul E. thought he was damaged goods, or if it was resentment for leaving, but Stevie was basically on the Indy circuit for like 18 months before showing up in the WWF (to help the Meanie, who was already there, just to further prove how backwards everything was back then). Even so, Stevie's work 1994-1997 was spectacular. I forget if it was Baker or Shin who once said that Stevie was basically doing Monday Night Wars style comedy in ECW a couple years before they were. That's true. That sort of comedy act is the norm now, but WWF and WCW weren't doing that yet. They were legitimately corny, where Stevie was being corny on purpose. From what I've seen from The New Day, they are part of this lineage.


  21. #96
    It's all in the reflexes Baker's Avatar

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    Jerry Lynn- Came a long way. I spent 18 months writing him off as a Tom Zenk or Brad Armstrong, if not a Bob Holly or Aldo Montoya-type...a bland 'solid hand' lower card babyface in a promotion that historically didn't have such things. At best he was a pauper's "Lionheart" Chris Jericho. To show how not over he was, one week before his breakout match with RVD at Living Dangerously he literally got go away heat at The Arena. He wrestled Storm to a time limit draw. Lynn tried doing the whole "five more minutes" thing but the crowd utterly rejected his plea with hilarious chants of "End the match! End the match!" I was right there chanting along with them. Hey, it was a dull match between two boring wrestlers.

    The RVD series absolutely made Lynn. Living Dangerously had me take notice of Lynn for the first time. Hardcore Heaven had me buying him as a legit upper card guy. His pops increased exponentially. My favorite match of theirs was actually the August '99 Arena match where even I, RVD fanboy supreme, was pulling for Lynn to win for a variety of reasons. I'm with Shin. It would have helped if Lynn had actually won a match or two over RVD during this period. Still think he should have been the man to dethrone RVD for the TV Title. The RVD/Lynn series was like an updated Eddie/Dean taken to the extreme as they got more hardcore than Malenko & Guerrero ever did.

    Unlike Shin, I kept wanting Lynn to turn heel. The RVD series put him on the map and the Cradle Piledriver finisher + "New F'n Show" nickname were other important progressions. I thought one more big change, like a heel turn, could be just what was needed to put him over the top. Alas, it came far too late to make any difference.

    I wasn't necessary a Jerry Lynn Guy. Not even after the RVD series. But I did grow to respect him and view him as a big deal. I finally became a legit Jerry Lynn fan in 2003 TNA due to his overlooked veteran/X Division pioneer gimmick. They kind of guilt tripped me into not loving ECW Jerry Lynn Dude was a hard worker for over a decade before finally getting his big break. Then he failed in WWE only to rebound in TNA. #14 on my list.

    *Going through the countdown I've been surprised by how many ECW acts I was indifferent to, or even disliked. That all changes now. Huge fan of 11 of the top 12. These were the guys who kept me buying the tapes, ordering those pay per views, and attending Arena shows. The cream of the crop rises to the top, brother. Ooh yeah!

    New Jack- To show how strong things are now, New Jack is my 2nd least favorite member of the Top 12, and New Jack f'n ruled.

    I won't be a New Jack apologist. I don't feel like I need to be. I prefer to separate the wrestler from the man. My list of favorite wrestlers includes bullies, jerks, assholes and conmen. One of the top five in ring competitors I ever saw is a murderer. The biggest stars in US wrestling history are a wifebeater and the awful Hulk Hogan. A monopolistic madman was literally my hero for like a decade. The other greatest promoter of all time, our very own Paul Heyman, was another lying conman. Jerome Young might be just another asshole but New Jack the performer ruled.

    I was indifferent at best to The Gangstas. Respect them as a big time ECW act but wasn't a fan.

    My first time seeing New Jack was at November To Remember '97. He didn't make much of an impression. I first took note of New Jack when he & Spike did simultaneous balcony splashes at Living Dangerously '98. I became a legit New Jack fan when he made one of his classic mid-match appearances complete with Natural Born Killaz blaring at....Heatwave '98, I think it was. But it wasn't until I started attending Arena shows in '99 that I REALLY "got" New Jack. Some things you just have to experience live, and the big New Jack babyface run in is one of those things. The crowd LOVED New Jack. We went bonkers and threw up the X whenever Natural Born Killaz hit. I've often mentioned how RVD was a whole different level of over at 1999 ECW Arena shows, and he was, but New Jack was the 2nd most popular guy on most of those shows. The New Jack run in was a work of art. They'd let the heat build and build and then BAM! New Jack! HUGE pop. Every. Single. Time. New Jack just had 'it.' Hitting guys with weapons during a run in at every single show sounds like it would get old after a while but it never did. New Jack had tons of charisma. He added little wrinkles to his weapon shots. A little dance here. A fun taunt there. Banter with the crowd. New Jack was the consummate showman.

    The most memorable of all those New Jack run ins was one of the rare times he didn't get the better of his opponents. It was during a 1999 Arena show. He ran in during a Baldies (ugh!) beatdown and got stapled in the eye by Angel. New Jack sold it like a champ. The crowd just died but in a good 'wtf! that wasn't supposed to happen!' way reminiscent of Brock ending Taker's streak. Like I'm pretty sure there were Ellis Mbeh-style faces in the crowd that night. There was also this one New Jack-hating older gentleman in front of us. This dude who was in his 40s or 50s tried getting a "One Eyed Jack" chant started. My 14-15 year old cousin who loved New Jack even more than I did gave the New Jack hater a death glare. Great forgotten angle wasted on the stupid Baldies.

    New Jack also brought an element of danger to the proceedings beyond that of even his extreme contemporaries. He truly gave no fucks. Dude would use any weapon he could get his hands on regardless, or perhaps because, of how sharp it was. Plus New Jack, who wasn't least bit athletic, would dive off anything to hurt an opponent.

    I interacted with New Jack twice while waiting in line at Arena shows. He was the only wrestler I ever saw during those long waits. First time he trolled us by walking down the line telling everybody to go home because the show was canceled Another time he bashed me for wearing a Rock shirt "Rock's a pussy." "Rock's a bitch." Something like that. To be fair, I deserved it for wearing a WWF shirt to an ECW show. Very bad form. That must have been my first live ECW show in March '99. I bought my first of several ECW shirts once I got inside. Lesson learned. Thanks, New Jack.

    Another fun New Jack memory is the time he got a title shot against Awesome due to clamoring from one of the ECW fansites- Strictly ECW I think it was. Want to say ECW's official site even announced the match ahead of time and credited New Jack's title shot to "overwhelming fan demand" or something like that. New Jack beating Awesome to win the title for a cup of coffee wouldn't have been the worst thing in the world. I'd have been down with it.

    As great as New Jack's run ins were, I do wish he would have had more straight (garbage, of course) matches with the major players. He was over enough to warrant it.

    New Jack was the Cinderella Story of my ballot. I initially had him penciled in around #20. He kept rising and rising as I'd ask myself "Who's more ECW- New Jack or x?" Of course New Jack kept winning and winning until he got all the way up to #13. Glad to see him crack the Top 15.

    *I'll cover Stevie later tonight or tomorrow. Then I'll drop the Supplemental Countdown before getting to the Top 10.
    Last edited by Baker; 04-30-2017 at 11:59 PM.

  22. #97
    Senior Member The Icon's Avatar

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    Jerry Lynn- I first saw him as Mr. JL in WCW which in the same match was my first viewing of Sabu on an episode of Nitro. They both provided a small taste of what was to come in ECW less than a year later. Like with most viewers he was nothing special until he got into the ring with RVD. They are still some of the most athletically competitive matches I've ever seen. Their chain wrestling sequences to start their matches are still copied to this day on the indy scene. I wonder if the long term plan was for RVD to win the title then have Lynn finally beat RVD a'la Raven/Dreamer? I also think they shouldn't have waited and made him the TV champ to build him up for a potential World Title run, but who knew of ECW's fate back then? I think his likability would have made it harder for him to be a great heel in ECW. He's is the definition of the other aspect to "hardcore wrestling", someone who worked really hard and at times fought through some horrible injuries to become one of the best in-ring performers in ECW history.

    New Jack- I think seeing him in the Gangstas first spoiled his individual ranking with me since what he did was an extension of the Gangstas innovation. He did up the ante with the Danbury fall and other balcony dives plus the continuous use of sharp implements. Plus after the break-up of the Gangstas he didn't feature prominently on many ECW cards which also hurt his ranking. All that being said I've rarely seen anyone as dedicated (to a fault at times, see Mass Transit) to his craft as New Jack. To this day in "shoots" he's still working the audience with his Natural Born Killa persona. I believe Fezz when he does say he was a nice guy when the cameras were off and working the line-ups at the ECW shows are classic New Jack. New Jack should go down as one of the best crowd workers of all time.

    Stevie Richards- Richards ranking on my list was hurt simply because comedy is one of the last things I factor in when ranking all time greats. I should have factored that in more prominently as I already admired how he was booked in-ring during his run. At first he really didn't appeal to me with the Daisy Dukes and cut off tank top. Once I saw him on tape however it all changed as he was the perfect lackey for Raven and those skits were some of the best ECW ever produced. Moving on to the bWo was a natural progression and the laughs continued. In ring though he was an awesome bumper and didn't seem out of place in the three way dance at Barely Legal. It was a well deserved spot for someone who was in the first Eastern Championship Wrestling match all those years earlier and got his ass beat for 3 years leading up to that point. Thanks guys for making up for my sometimes myopic view.

    1.
    2.
    3.
    4.
    5.
    6.
    7.
    8.
    9. The Gangstas
    10.
    11.
    12. The Eliminators
    13. The Bad Breed
    14. Dean Malenko
    15. Eddie Guerrero
    16. Public Enemy
    17. Mikey Whipwreck
    18. 2 Cold Scorpio
    19. Rey Mysterio
    20. Mike Awesome
    21. Jimmy Snuka
    22. Don Muraco
    23. Bam Bam Bigelow
    24. Jerry Lynn
    25. New Jack
    26. Sabu and RVD
    27. Tajiri
    28. The Pitbulls
    29. Masato Tanaka
    30. Steve Austin
    31. Super Crazy
    32. Stevie Richards
    33. Lance Storm
    34. Chris Candido
    35. The Impact Players
    36. Chris Jericho
    37. Spike Dudley
    38. Steve Corino
    39. Justin Credible
    40. Balls Mahoney
    41. 911
    42. Rhino
    43. Al Snow
    44. Tommy Cairo
    45. The Chair Swingin' Freaks
    46. Chris Candido and Lance Storm
    47. Hack Myers
    48. Psicosis
    49. The FBI (Tracy Smothers and Little Guido)
    50. Nova

  23. #98
    Member Fisto's Avatar

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    Mike Awesome-i think his path of destruction was perfect for a lot of new viewers to witness on TNN. not as good as Taz's path of rage, but pretty much every match got a holy shit chant. fuck Jeff Jones, but he was a great champion. loved his matches with Spike. forgot who it was, but the last show i went to had him destroy someone. crazy brutal and will always stick out in my memory.

    like Bam Bam Bigelow, who appeared twice in 1996 but didn't stick around long enough to do much, you could tell ECW really wanted to do something with Mike Awesome. his run in 1994 was a highlight of the Eastern days, even if it was only squash matches and one match with sabu. was good, but if they could have gotten a little more out of him, Awesome vs Terry Funk or Cactus Jack in 1994 would have ruled. he joined Triple threat for one night in 1997, but nothing came out of it. than the 1998 run was cut short because of an injury. finally for TNN, he's a major player.

    really liked too cold scorpio. benoit, malenko, guerrero, and jericho always get mentioned for clean wrestlers in ECW, but Scorpio, Candido, Storm and Lynn were around longer and ECW got more out of them. Scorpio was especially important in the early days as the tv title was basically built around him. he defiantly gave ECW some credibility as a former WCW name and it was nice to see him come back in 1998 and a few times in 1999. definitely needed some direction in his matches or they'd have too much stalling but his moves were crazy.

    already said how charismatic New Jack was. forget which gangsta it was, but i handed one of them my spare bike chain and he choked one of the Eliminators with it. that was awesome.

    if you told me in 1995 that Stevie Richards was gonna main event a major ECW show, id ask you for some of your weed. surely enough, he became a serious player. unlike the tasteless nWo horsemen parody or some of those cringeworthy dx skits, Stevie was actually funny. and then we all got behind him as an underdog and wanted to see him kick Raven's ass. shit didn't work out, but it was a damn fun journey.

  24. #99
    Member Fisto's Avatar

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    shit, this thread had me reminiscing all night at work about my experience. i'll have to post the shows i went to and what stuck out most from them eventually. that judas priest heavy metal parking lot comparison shin dropped was spot on. it was like before a heavy metal concert mixed with the rowdiest sporting event. lots of tailgating and drinking. "fuck WCW, fuck nWo man." WWF ain't got shit on this.

    something kilgore mentioned about Stevie Richards not getting another proper shot in ECW. there was a taz/nova match where taz completely buried Stevie and his defection to WCW really brutally. called him Raven's ass wiper. and this was on hardcore tv. it was rough. a lot of the boys resented Stevie for leaving when he was getting ready for the title. imagine if RVD left in mid 1998 or if taz left in the middle of his streak. i know he was injured, but it didn't seem to matter to them. stevie goes into detail about it in a shoot that might be on youtube and the reaction he got when he returned at November to Remember.

    I always imagined the "Superstar" Stevie Richards was gonna get the heel push Justin Credible got because he was feuding with Dreamer and it looked like a Taz match would have happened, but i don't think they should have brought him back a heel. even if he left, we watched him rise up the card for a year before he was injured. got very mixed reactions live. on one hand, we were glad to see him back, on the other, the character wasn't him at all.

    i watched through WCW 1997 not to long ago. as an ECW fan, his run there was depressing. 6 months of getting serious and standing up to Raven, and now he's back to being a clueless puts. not to mention that ruined him in real life.

  25. #100
    It's all in the reflexes Baker's Avatar

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    Stevie Richards- #12 on my list and he would have cracked my Top 10 had this been strictly a favorites list. Love me some Stevie.

    I first took note of Stevie when I read an Apter Mag Arena Report describing an awesome-on-paper match he had with Sabu in January '96. As an NWO hater, I thought the BWO was genius the first time I heard about it. My first time seeing Stevie was his February '97 Raw appearance which lead to an all time great Vince line about the NWO being a clothing line Stevie definitely became one of my guys at Barely Legal with a great promo and a gutsy performance in the 3 way ladder match. Not being particularly cool myself, I could relate to this dorky goofball. Prime ECW imo ran from about November 95-June 97. With all due respect to Sandman, Sabu, Funk (who wasn't around all the time), and even Dreamer, my Big 3 during ECW's Golden Age were Taz, Raven & Stevie.

    The word 'genius' gets thrown around too often in wrestling but Stevie really was kind of a genius. He played the clueless putz to perfection. Greatest lackey in wrestling history and I don't even think that is debatable. His whole look with the half shirt, daisy dukes and Motley Crue tattoo was perfect. And how cool was it that the lackey got his own lackey in the nearly-as-cool Blue Meanie? Stevie/Raven is an all time great pairing and another cool thing is it's easy to imagine this goofball being a legit fan of Scotty Flamingo & Johnny Polo. Not many wrestlers could have pulled that off.

    It was Shin who first mentioned how Stevie revolutionized wrestling comedy. I agreed and have pushed that narrative since reading it but Shin deserves all the credit for being the first to make this observation. Angle, Edge & Christian, and even Foley, along with so many others, owe at least some of their success to Stevie. All those parodies can also be traced back to Stevie. It's been done to death since but Stevie's early parodies were revolutionary. Technically it had been done before. There was a guy named Dirty Rhodes in Memphis. "Nature Boy" Buddy Landel could be seen as a more serious parody of Ric Flair in mid-80s NWA. But that stuff never caught on the way Stevie's stuff did. It soon got to the point where you couldn't turn on Raw or Nitro without seeing a parody. Even as recently as a year or two ago Damien Sandow & Curtis Axel were getting over doing Stevie Richards-type stuff.

    Stevie also had the best character arc of anybody in ECW, and one of the best in wrestling history. From lackey to leader of his own (goofy) stable to breakout babyface star standing up for himself. Hell yeah! Stevie Richards, baby! Of all the people to leave ECW over the years, Stevie is the one I wish would have stayed above all others just because his story was incomplete. I've heard rumors he was in line to take the title from Funk (perhaps at Wrestlepalooza '97? Candido WAS a sub for Richards that night....) but injuries and Raven/WCW put an end to that. Stevie left on bad terms and it derailed his career for over 2 years. He went from one of the hottest rising stars in wrestling to slumming it on indie shows. I saw Stevie a few times at my local indie Maryland Championship Wrestling during this period. It was sad and he seemed legit depressed. You can't blame him. Feuding with Earl the Pearl is a big step down from wresting Funk & Sandman in the penultimate match on ECW's very first pay per view.

    My laptop is being a pain in the ass but the first link will take you to a PW Torch article chronicling all the heat Stevie had with the locker room upon his late '97 return.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=s.+r...hrome&ie=UTF-8

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