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Thread: I hate Shawn Michaels

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    Default I hate Shawn Michaels

    Sorry , not sorry @The Show.

    I was just listening to a podcast about Vader where they went fairly in depth about Shawn essentially being the bastard that he was in the 90's and costing Vader what should of been a fun run as the champion during his WWE stint and eventually getting him jobbed out. It made me angry all over again , I know the stories and I know that Shawn has "changed" for the better and pretty much has been forgiven for everything but listening to the history of that era and hearing stuff over again it just opens up wounds and makes me realize that for everything Shawn has given us over the years , he's a bastard that potentially took so much more away.

    So use this thread to vent about the bastard that is Shawn Michaels , or talk about maybe aside from Hogan , is there any wrestler in history who's politics took away more from the fans?

    Screw you HBK.

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    Senior Member The Icon's Avatar

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    I vented enough about Shawn in the mid to late 90's to my friends so it's hard for me to muster up that frustration after 20 years. I still think he was the lesser of three evils in the Screwjob that involved Vince and Triple H. The only other names worse when it comes to politics are Moolah, Cena and Hogan in my book. Moolah for her pimping of women and keeping her spot at all costs for 30 years, Hogan for his games with Savage, Bret and most of WCW. There is no way you can deny Cena's political pull as the top guy and keeping all that talent that is vastly superior beneath him now for over a dozen years. Plus there is the Nexus, Alex Riley, Tyler Reks and Ryback stories making the rounds. That Alex Riley story is the most frustrating, he had so much potential.

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    Moderator UT's Avatar

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    Quote Originally Posted by The Icon View Post
    I vented enough about Shawn in the mid to late 90's to my friends so it's hard for me to muster up that frustration after 20 years. I still think he was the lesser of three evils in the Screwjob that involved Vince and Triple H. The only other names worse when it comes to politics are Moolah, Cena and Hogan in my book. Moolah for her pimping of women and keeping her spot at all costs for 30 years, Hogan for his games with Savage, Bret and most of WCW. There is no way you can deny Cena's political pull as the top guy and keeping all that talent that is vastly superior beneath him now for over a dozen years. Plus there is the Nexus, Alex Riley, Tyler Reks and Ryback stories making the rounds. That Alex Riley story is the most frustrating, he had so much potential.
    Alex Riley and Vader aren't even in the same galaxy when talking about what could of been if not for dickish backstage practices. None of those guys really were.

    Vader was already a star and someone who could of really added something to the title scene in the WWF at the time , and that Summerslam match that I went back and rewatched this morning was some of the most unprofessional shit I can remember seeing inside a ring.

    I've talked about Shawn a lot too , but I still learn more things and remember things that his bullshit caused during his run in the WWF. Damn him and damn the WWF at the time for putting up with it and giving in.

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    Hating 90's Shawn are being an asshole is so 10 years ago. Yawn.

    All credit goes to surrender!

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    Quote Originally Posted by The Show View Post
    Hating 90's Shawn are being an asshole is so 10 years ago. Yawn.
    Well this is the history of wrestling , a history that Shawn personally had a hand in trying to destroy. I demand you defend your hero!

    Think about how much cooler this section of PW could be if not for Shawn fucking everything up.


    Does the good he's done outweight the stuff he took away? I would trade at least two of his WM classics for a real Vader run in the WWF.

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    Senior Member The Icon's Avatar

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    I wasn't following WWF closely at the time but when I heard about Vader making the jump I had low expectations for him anyway. Vince already had all of his eggs in the Shawn basket going back to mid 1995 (going by memory of that sappy Shawn video when Owen hurt him) plus he wasn't a Vince creation. At best I figured Vader to be a stop gap during Shawn's run. He was indeed a dick though during the Summerslam match. By all accounts though other than that match according to Vader he was great to work with in the ring.


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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    I would've liked a Vader WWF title run as well and while Shawn did play his part in that not happening, there were other factors at play. I'm sure you listened to Bruce when he said that Vader was overweight and not compliant about losing it. Also, he was tough to deal with as well. Had Vader come in 1993 or 94, I think he would've been much more successful and motivated.

    90's Shawn was an asshole and probably a terrible human being; I won't dispute that. But I'd suffice to say that every top guy in history has that paranoia history as well. Look at Hogan. Austin has the rep for being an asshole and protective of his spot. HHH goes without saying. And stories are starting to come out now about Cena. I think it just comes with the territory. None of that stuff though takes away from what entertain those guys gave me. I tend to value what I see in front my television over what happened backstage. I won't deny that coked up Shawn was the worst backstage.

    All credit goes to surrender!

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    Quote Originally Posted by The Icon View Post
    I wasn't following WWF closely at the time but when I heard about Vader making the jump I had low expectations for him anyway. Vince already had all of his eggs in the Shawn basket going back to mid 1995 (going by memory of that sappy Shawn video when Owen hurt him) plus he wasn't a Vince creation. At best I figured Vader to be a stop gap during Shawn's run. He was indeed a dick though during the Summerslam match. By all accounts though other than that match according to Vader he was great to work with in the ring.

    I'm sure once Shawn got his way and Vader felt the wrath of what happens when you cross Shawn , Vader was far more compliant in just letting Shawn getting away with whatever he wanted. Apparently Vader was in tears after the Summerslam match because of the shit Shawn was threatening him with WHILE inside the ring all after kicking him in the head while he was laying prone on the mat.

    Vader was in for a pretty decent push and a series of matches with Shawn where he would win the belt from him at I think Survivor Series before dropping it back , instead Sid got that push. There was also a squashed push where Vader was supposed to Main Event the IYH: IT'S TIME PPV and instead of him fighting Bret it was Sid.

    Not to say Vader wasn't to take some of the blame , but Shawn really had a hand in fucking Vaders entire run up in the WWE.

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    In an aside, I'm not even sure if Shawn is my favorite anymore. My tastes have changed since then and he may have been surpassed by a few people. That's why I don't feel that compelled to defend him so much.

    Still, he was in some of my favorite matches of all time. HBK/Mankind may be on the top of that list.

    All credit goes to surrender!

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    Quote Originally Posted by The Show View Post
    I would've liked a Vader WWF title run as well and while Shawn did play his part in that not happening, there were other factors at play. I'm sure you listened to Bruce when he said that Vader was overweight and not compliant about losing it. Also, he was tough to deal with as well. Had Vader come in 1993 or 94, I think he would've been much more successful and motivated.

    90's Shawn was an asshole and probably a terrible human being; I won't dispute that. But I'd suffice to say that every top guy in history has that paranoia history as well. Look at Hogan. Austin has the rep for being an asshole and protective of his spot. HHH goes without saying. And stories are starting to come out now about Cena. I think it just comes with the territory. None of that stuff though takes away from what entertain those guys gave me. I tend to value what I see in front my television over what happened backstage. I won't deny that coked up Shawn was the worst backstage.
    Oh injuries and such played a part as well , as I just said to Icon , Vader had some to do with it as well. That doesn't mean it wasn't going to happen until Shawn got Vince's ear. Bruce also said that Shawn was the far more unproffesional of the two and a spoiled brat they refused to deal with.

    I don't disagree that every top guy has a dickish quality about them either , it's what gets them to the top and allows them to stay there. I don't think many I've heard took it to the same levels as Shawn though and at least not on as many separate occasions. I don't even care about the MSJ... that's been talked about to death. I'm talking about other Shawn antics that go beyond Vader.

    Part of this is obviously tongue in cheek , but Shawn really screwed up so much I wanted to see.

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    Quote Originally Posted by The Show View Post
    In an aside, I'm not even sure if Shawn is my favorite anymore. My tastes have changed since then and he may have been surpassed by a few people. That's why I don't feel that compelled to defend him so much.

    Still, he was in some of my favorite matches of all time. HBK/Mankind may be on the top of that list.
    I'm the same with Bret Hart. He'll always hold a place for me in my heart , but keeps getting passed by. I find myself liking pre Main Event Bret more than Main Event Bret when I rewatch old stuff.

    Anyways this is about Shawn being the worst human being ever for sabotaging a fake sport. What else is that prick responsible for ruining?

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    I'm the same with Bret Hart. He'll always hold a place for me in my heart , but keeps getting passed by. I find myself liking pre Main Event Bret more than Main Event Bret when I rewatch old stuff.

    Anyways this is about Shawn being the worst human being ever for sabotaging a fake sport. What else is that prick responsible for ruining?
    Well Shawn did refuse to lose to Davey Boy in fucking England of all places. The match was for the European title and Davey was told that he was going over until like the day of the show. This was after Davey Boy dedicated the match to his dying sister. That is so sleazy.

    It was a great match though and the heat at the end was unreal. You need to check that out.

    All credit goes to surrender!

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    Quote Originally Posted by The Show View Post
    Well Shawn did refuse to lose to Davey Boy in fucking England of all places. The match was for the European title and Davey was told that he was going over until like the day of the show. This was after Davey Boy dedicated the match to his dying sister. That is so sleazy.

    It was a great match though and the heat at the end was unreal. You need to check that out.
    I vaguely remember that. I don't remember if it was from watching , reading or listening about it. That is the epitome of sleazy though , at least Davey had something on his side to prevent what eventually happened to Vader.

    I hope Bruce and Conrad eventually do a Shawn podcast though where they cover everything Shawn has done. It should be a two parter of both the good and the bad.

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    What else is that prick responsible for ruining?
    The WWF careers of....

    Jean Pierre Lafitte
    Dean Douglas
    Skip
    Bam Bam Bigelow
    Vader

    And arguably....

    Adam Bomb
    Bret Hart
    Davey Boy Smith
    Owen Hart

    And that's just off the top of my head.

    As much as I hated mid-late 90s Shawn, and he was the worst, his 2000s run went a long way toward redeeming him in my eyes.

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    The premise of this thread is solid. However, Shawn did so much to rehabilitate his image in later years that I don't think he's worth hating as much as some others would be.

    He had a hand in grooming one of the greatest wrestlers of the modern era in Bryan Danielson, put plenty of people over, and kept himself out of the title hunt as much as he could until WWE would force it upon him occasionally.

    Also, he gave an in-ring middle finger to one of the few guys I'd say is even more of a poisonous politician in Hulk Hogan. He's also kept to his retirement and stayed out of in-ring action, and doesn't continually tease and tweet about coming back.

    I would say Shawn has SOMEWHAT redeemed himself.
    Last edited by Djm; 02-10-2017 at 03:12 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by mx518
    he's one of the biggest smarks on this board and epitomizes everything that a smark actually is.
    Quote Originally Posted by mx518 View Post
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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    Quote Originally Posted by Djm View Post
    The premise of this thread is solid. However, Shawn did so much to rehabilitate his image in later years that I don't think he's worth hating as much as some others would be.

    He had a hand in grooming one of the greatest wrestlers of the modern era in Bryan Danielson, put plenty of people over, and kept himself out of the title hunt as much as he could until WWE would force it upon in occasionally.

    Also, he gave an in-ring middle finger to one of the few guys I'd say is even more of a poisonous politician in Hulk Hogan. He's also kept to his retirement and stayed out of in-ring action, and doesn't continually tease and tweet about coming back.

    I would say Shawn has SOMEWHAT redeemed himself.
    This is best post you've ever had. Kudos.

    All credit goes to surrender!

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    Eccentric enigma Soulblazed's Avatar

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    I'll give Shawn credit where it's due...He's had great matches in the AWA and WWF/WWE....He never jumped to WCW, gave Angle a helluva Wrestlemania 21 match, etc

    That being said, growing up, I always rooted for Bret over Shawn and still feel that way....I'm surprised none of ya'll added any Cornette clips yet..

    Here's a nice one...Tatanka, Cornette, Bam Bam, Hurricane, Honky, Hogan(of all people) and others go in on Shawn


    Bret talks about what should've happened at Wrestlemania 13. Much as Austin/Bret was a classic, imagine if Bret "broke" Shawn's foot with a shoot hold to win the WWF Title back from him.


    Cornette chips in with a little more

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    Quote Originally Posted by Djm View Post
    The premise of this thread is solid. However, Shawn did so much to rehabilitate his image in later years that I don't think he's worth hating as much as some others would be.

    He had a hand in grooming one of the greatest wrestlers of the modern era in Bryan Danielson, put plenty of people over, and kept himself out of the title hunt as much as he could until WWE would force it upon him occasionally.

    Also, he gave an in-ring middle finger to one of the few guys I'd say is even more of a poisonous politician in Hulk Hogan. He's also kept to his retirement and stayed out of in-ring action, and doesn't continually tease and tweet about coming back.

    I would say Shawn has SOMEWHAT redeemed himself.
    I know he's done a lot of good since he returned but that doesn't give me a Vader title run I so wanted to see. I am fairly stubborn over this very fact mainly because I love Vader the wrestler and he could of brought so much more to the WWF title scene. I would trade any number of those good things you mentioned Shawn doing during his revival for one little run to see what could of been.

    I would trade any number of his matches , I wouldn't trade him randomly super kicking backstage though. I don't know how much a hand he really had in Bryans training , I never do when it comes to wrestling schools but I'm sure you have more knowledge on the history of DB than myself though. What about him super kicking Bryan and costing him his match and never giving anything back to him? You had to at least curse his names a few times then.

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    Anti-Anti-Smark Djm's Avatar

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    I know he's done a lot of good since he returned but that doesn't give me a Vader title run I so wanted to see. I am fairly stubborn over this very fact mainly because I love Vader the wrestler and he could of brought so much more to the WWF title scene. I would trade any number of those good things you mentioned Shawn doing during his revival for one little run to see what could of been.

    I would trade any number of his matches , I wouldn't trade him randomly super kicking backstage though. I don't know how much a hand he really had in Bryans training , I never do when it comes to wrestling schools but I'm sure you have more knowledge on the history of DB than myself though. What about him super kicking Bryan and costing him his match and never giving anything back to him? You had to at least curse his names a few times then.
    Shawn's Texas Wrestling Academy gave Bryan, Lance Cade, Brian Kendrick and others their first spot. Shawn was there, but he wasn't the HEAD TRAINER. That was Rudy Boy Gonzalez. Shawn was able to get some of his guys developmental contracts, bookings in various territories, and Japan as well. Shawn and Rudy Boy was the one in the very early beginnings, pre-Regal.

    When it came to Bryan getting superkicked, it didn't really phase me. Probably because at that point I was at the lowest point of my wrestling fandom in years, maybe ever, and nothing resonated with me. Also, I had no expectations of Shawn coming back to put Bryan over beyond what he did---getting put in the Yes Lock. I was fine with it. It was more of the WWE Status Quo that had already worn my fandom down to almost nothing and killed my soul.

    On the Vader thing...yeah, that was bullshit. It absolutely was. Being a Booker T fan and given my undying hatred of HHH, I can relate to a certain degree.
    Quote Originally Posted by mx518
    he's one of the biggest smarks on this board and epitomizes everything that a smark actually is.
    Quote Originally Posted by mx518 View Post
    No, it's just called being realistic; I never thought I'd see DJM join the dark side.
    NOBODY PUTS BABY IN A CORNER!

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    Hey @Shawn Michaels! Looks like @Untouchable wants to fight. He doesn't like you bro!

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    Moderator UT's Avatar

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    Quote Originally Posted by Djm View Post
    Shawn's Texas Wrestling Academy gave Bryan, Lance Cade, Brian Kendrick and others their first spot. Shawn was there, but he wasn't the HEAD TRAINER. That was Rudy Boy Gonzalez. Shawn was able to get some of his guys developmental contracts, bookings in various territories, and Japan as well. Shawn and Rudy Boy was the one in the very early beginnings, pre-Regal.

    When it came to Bryan getting superkicked, it didn't really phase me. Probably because at that point I was at the lowest point of my wrestling fandom in years, maybe ever, and nothing resonated with me. Also, I had no expectations of Shawn coming back to put Bryan over beyond what he did---getting put in the Yes Lock. I was fine with it. It was more of the WWE Status Quo that had already worn my fandom down to almost nothing and killed my soul.

    On the Vader thing...yeah, that was bullshit. It absolutely was. Being a Booker T fan and given my undying hatred of HHH, I can relate to a certain degree.
    I suppose Shawns influence more than anything had a lot to do with Bryan getting a real chance , but even being a fraction of the DB fan you are I have to believe the guy would of found a way to make it with or without Shawn on his resume`. Also I didn't think the super kick was a big deal either but figured it would of struck a nerve with you so I was curious.

    The HHH thing was bad as well for many different reasons that may even go beyond wrestling , but the Summerslam match to me , after having my memory refreshed and watching it with fresh eyes was just too much for me to handle at the point. Who kicks a guy in the head while he's lying on the mat , threatens their job in the middle of the ring and continues to scream at them throughout the match , only because you know you are in a position where you cannot be touched because if Vader did anything , it would of been career suicide as far as the WWF was concerned.

    All this at a time where the business was still trying to be somewhat protected , the poster boy of the company is screaming spots in the main event of your second biggest show of the year.

    Which goes to show that Vince and company are just as much to blame as anyone for letting Shawn get to that point , and I still don't understand why. Shawn was an exceptional talent but he wasn't Hulk Hogan in terms of putting asses in the seats or on the television and I don't even think he was the biggest draw on the roster when you consider what Bret was capable of internationally. Bret/Vader could of been such a great feud in terms of in the ring and the money it could of taken in throughout the globe. Hell Shawn/Vader could of been great as well if Shawn was willing to give and take a little more.

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    I feel kinda invincible Kilgore's Avatar

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    Shawn took Daniel Bryan's money, and probably bought drugs. I doubt he showed him much of anything.

    As for Shawn's second career rehabilitation, as the years go by, it's becoming more and more apparent his improvement was a sliding scale. He went from a cunt taking it to eleven, to being a solid six cunt instead. Let's all throw him a fucking party.


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    They still play defense? The Real LT's Avatar

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    Sorry , not sorry @The Show.

    I was just listening to a podcast about Vader where they went fairly in depth about Shawn essentially being the bastard that he was in the 90's and costing Vader what should of been a fun run as the champion during his WWE stint and eventually getting him jobbed out. It made me angry all over again , I know the stories and I know that Shawn has "changed" for the better and pretty much has been forgiven for everything but listening to the history of that era and hearing stuff over again it just opens up wounds and makes me realize that for everything Shawn has given us over the years , he's a bastard that potentially took so much more away.

    So use this thread to vent about the bastard that is Shawn Michaels , or talk about maybe aside from Hogan , is there any wrestler in history who's politics took away more from the fans?

    Screw you HBK.
    No question Shawn was a dick, but Vader brought a lot of that on himself. Most of the WWE roster didn't appreciate being stiffed in the ring like your average curtain jerker.

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    Moderator UT's Avatar

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    Quote Originally Posted by The Real LT View Post
    No question Shawn was a dick, but Vader brought a lot of that on himself. Most of the WWE roster didn't appreciate being stiffed in the ring like your average curtain jerker.
    Shawn was also known as a snug worker , Austin was notorious for it. A lot of the greats worked stiff , Vader might of taken it to another level and especially with jobbers.

    And Shawns temper tantrum in the middle of the ring came from Vader not moving out of the way for an elbow drop , not being stiffed.

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    Senior Member Jack Nichols's Avatar

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    Default Re: I hate Shawn Michaels

    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    Sorry , not sorry @The Show.

    I was just listening to a podcast about Vader where they went fairly in depth about Shawn essentially being the bastard that he was in the 90's and costing Vader what should of been a fun run as the champion during his WWE stint and eventually getting him jobbed out. It made me angry all over again , I know the stories and I know that Shawn has "changed" for the better and pretty much has been forgiven for everything but listening to the history of that era and hearing stuff over again it just opens up wounds and makes me realize that for everything Shawn has given us over the years , he's a bastard that potentially took so much more away.

    So use this thread to vent about the bastard that is Shawn Michaels , or talk about maybe aside from Hogan , is there any wrestler in history who's politics took away more from the fans?

    Screw you HBK.
    Yeah the stories about HBK and Vader are repulsive, however I listened to a podcast(maybe the same one?) where they went in-depth about Vaders constant weight problems. I guess Vince wasn't a fan of his at the time. They had him go to special gyms and put on special diets a couple times. Perhaps that's why he never got the push into being the champion. They also talked about how it was Vaders last run being an in ring performer and that he wasn't the talent that he was in the early 90's. Either way I think he would have made a great heel champion for a face to overcome.

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