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Thread: ACA / Obamacare related question

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    Quickdraw McBald nazzer's Avatar

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    Default ACA / Obamacare related question

    To preface this post if you don't know, I am Canadian.

    I don't understand the way the average american seems to be opposed to universal healthcare. The USA is one of the few industrialized countries in the world where health care isn't something the government just provides to you in return for you paying taxes and being a citizen of your country.

    Every paycheque I get deducted $18.75 to coverage my medical services premiums. I think my work pays 50% of my fees. This fee allows me to have a family doctor, go to that doctor as many times as I want for free. I can go to a walk in clinic any time I want (as long as they're open) and see a different doctor as many times as I want, for free. And I can get x rays, mri, whatever the heck I need, for free. If I need surgery I will be put on a wait list and receive that surgery within a somewhat reasonable time frame (obviously the higher priority cases get dealt with first), again for free. The $18.75 I pay every pay cheque gets me unlimited medical services, even if I screw up and somehow my medical services premiums are not currently up to date.

    I understand Obamacare was not perfect and there is some sort of medicaid program in place. But I ask the americans here. Why don't you push your government to implement a system similar to what Canada and many other countries have? It's the greatest system, it's terrific, just the best.

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    No, You Don't Want None! mx518's Avatar

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    Default Re: ACA / Obamacare related question

    Well, I don't know this for a fact, but I would assume that the United States population is relevant to the debate. We have over 300 million people in this country. On top of that, our pharmaceutical industry and insurance companies are shady as hell. I don't really know if it's as simple as that; if there's anybody here that actually understands the system, then please provide a thorough explanation.

    Somehow, I would guess that due to our population density, the waiting lists and times for free surgeries would be significantly longer for US citizens than Canadian citizens.

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    Quickdraw McBald nazzer's Avatar

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    Default Re: ACA / Obamacare related question

    Quote Originally Posted by mx518 View Post
    Well, I don't know this for a fact, but I would assume that the United States population is relevant to the debate. We have over 300 million people in this country. On top of that, our pharmaceutical industry and insurance companies are shady as hell. I don't really know if it's as simple as that; if there's anybody here that actually understands the system, then please provide a thorough explanation.

    Somehow, I would guess that due to our population density, the waiting lists and times for free surgeries would be significantly longer for US citizens than Canadian citizens.
    I"m no expert on the finances of how our medicare system works. But wouldn't you just have more doctors and that's fine? More people equals more tax money, therefore more doctors. No matter the population shouldn't the same ratio of doctors and services to people be possible?

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    No, You Don't Want None! mx518's Avatar

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    Default Re: ACA / Obamacare related question

    Quote Originally Posted by nazzer View Post
    I"m no expert on the finances of how our medicare system works. But wouldn't you just have more doctors and that's fine? More people equals more tax money, therefore more doctors. No matter the population shouldn't the same ratio of doctors and services to people be possible?
    I'm assuming the insurance providers are the guilty ones with that problem. My dad has worked as an executive in the health care industry for 35 years, and he has always criticized how much of a pain in the ass it is to work with insurance providers. I don't know the specifics, maybe someone can shine some light on the subject.

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    They still play defense? The Real LT's Avatar

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    Default Re: ACA / Obamacare related question

    Canada-36 million people

    United States-325 million people

    Any questions?

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    Quickdraw McBald nazzer's Avatar

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    Default Re: ACA / Obamacare related question

    Quote Originally Posted by The Real LT View Post
    Canada-36 million people

    United States-325 million people

    Any questions?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan#Health

    Any serious replies?

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    They still play defense? The Real LT's Avatar

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    Default Re: ACA / Obamacare related question

    Quote Originally Posted by nazzer View Post
    Still almost 200 million less people. Not exactly helping your case there.

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    but secretly C to the C Engel's Avatar

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    Default Re: ACA / Obamacare related question

    This is why people do not want Obamacare essentially. Most people who oppose Obamacare do so because they feel they should not need insurance until they get sick. So until they get a disease that demands constant medical care, they do not want to pay for insurance. Then when they do get sick, they feel they should be entitled to insurance / government help paying for their healthcare. In a nutshell, they feel they should only pay when they are sick, and not have to pay when they are healthy. This is GOP beliefs in a nutshell though, they feel they should not have to pay for any social programs until they personally benefit from them.

    People give other reasons involving access to healthcare but we have not see this so-called crisis of lack of medical professionals impact people on a real level despite the rising levels of those covered by insurance. It is funny how people talk numbers as well, believing the US cannot do it because no other single country has the same number of people, but taken as a whole, the rest of the world made universal health care work, with a greater number of people.

    Bear in mind, for many who oppose things like health care this is considered an inspiring quote from a movie hero:

    The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind.
    To me this is what separates American politics the fastest, those who saw Douglas as the hero of Wall Street and those who saw him as the villain.
    Last edited by Engel; 01-24-2017 at 04:54 AM.


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    They still play defense? The Real LT's Avatar

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    Default Re: ACA / Obamacare related question

    One thing that might help with staffing is using PA's for general care instead of MD's. You really don't need a full medical doctor for general practice. Especially considering their main job is to refer you to whatever specialist is neccesary.
    Last edited by The Real LT; 01-24-2017 at 11:13 AM.

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    but secretly C to the C Engel's Avatar

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    Default Re: ACA / Obamacare related question

    Which is already done with RN's who are in greater supply and cheaper in price.


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    Senior Member T-Bone's Avatar

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    Default Re: ACA / Obamacare related question

    Quote Originally Posted by Engel View Post
    This is why people do not want Obamacare essentially. Most people who oppose Obamacare do so because they feel they should not need insurance until they get sick. So until they get a disease that demands constant medical care, they do not want to pay for insurance. Then when they do get sick, they feel they should be entitled to insurance / government help paying for their healthcare. In a nutshell, they feel they should only pay when they are sick, and not have to pay when they are healthy. This is GOP beliefs in a nutshell though, they feel they should not have to pay for any social programs until they personally benefit from them.

    People give other reasons involving access to healthcare but we have not see this so-called crisis of lack of medical professionals impact people on a real level despite the rising levels of those covered by insurance. It is funny how people talk numbers as well, believing the US cannot do it because no other single country has the same number of people, but taken as a whole, the rest of the world made universal health care work, with a greater number of people.

    Bear in mind, for many who oppose things like health care this is considered an inspiring quote from a movie hero:



    To me this is what separates American politics the fastest, those who saw Douglas as the hero of Wall Street and those who saw him as the villain.
    That's to me what it boils down to and another reason that I'm glad I'm Canadian.
    Last edited by T-Bone; 01-24-2017 at 12:33 PM.

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    but secretly C to the C Engel's Avatar

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    Default Re: ACA / Obamacare related question

    I cannot think of any other reason that people refuse to become insured. Health insurance is a mathematical gain for most people, and a hedge against a super rare hedge against a black swan event. From an economic standard point, the only offer better that exists for costs vs value is pascal's wager. The only time insurance does not matter is if you put your lifetime chance of getting a serious illness at zero, or extremely close to it.

    My ultimate solution I wish to see is a total opt out. Give people the option to opt out of public healthcare, and taxes related to entitlements entirely with the expressed notion that once they do, they will not be eligible for any of these services at anytime in the future. Likewise however, give employers the rights to deal with these people properly, and allow denial of services if payment cannot be met. I believe this fits into the views of all who oppose these programs, and they can still rely on the church for a safety net, as many claim is good enough for all. But if a black swan event hits, then renters, healthcare offices, emergency rooms and food panties should have the right to refuse them. Churches are not public services so it will be up to the churches to whether they will support followers who refuse to tithe or not.

    I bet if this option exists, few who oppose these systems would take part in it. They would all embrace it while the uneducated voters suffered for it. But this is the way it is now. GOP all have public healthcare while arguing it is bad for all. They receive paychecks based on taxes while claiming using tax money for others is bad. Taxpayers most of their basic living expenses, while they claim the same is bad for others. It is sheer hypocrisy. Essentially it does not matter what laws they push to enact, because none of it will effect them in the least. They rely on the uneducated voters to suffer while they are paid handsomely by the voters first, then special interests secondly. As the obamacare turning out to be the ACA proved as well, these people want nothing to do with their voters and now in NC at least, the taxpayer is being expected to soon provide lifetime protection for politicians so they can avoid the public completely during and following their service.


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    American Ninja ShinobiMusashi's Avatar

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    Default Re: ACA / Obamacare related question

    I know for me personally it's a pretty big rip off, they wanted me to pay a substantial amount of money every month and then when it came time for me to use it they only covered 40% of my bill. So when it came time for me to use it, I still wouldn't be able to afford the 60% of the medical bills on top of the monthly bill they wanted(over 300 a month). I pay child support and take care of several family members that can't take care of themselves, there is no way I could afford to be scammed like this on a monthly basis. It's better for me to just save that 300+ a month and pay cash when i need to see a doctor. I'd rather just do without and hope for the best instead of taking a dick up the ass every month.

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    Quickdraw McBald nazzer's Avatar

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    Default Re: ACA / Obamacare related question

    Quote Originally Posted by ShinobiMusashi View Post
    I know for me personally it's a pretty big rip off, they wanted me to pay a substantial amount of money every month and then when it came time for me to use it they only covered 40% of my bill. So when it came time for me to use it, I still wouldn't be able to afford the 60% of the medical bills on top of the monthly bill they wanted(over 300 a month). I pay child support and take care of several family members that can't take care of themselves, there is no way I could afford to be scammed like this on a monthly basis. It's better for me to just save that 300+ a month and pay cash when i need to see a doctor. I'd rather just do without and hope for the best instead of taking a dick up the ass every month.
    That sounds like a tough financial pill to swallow (get the medical pun?). But what if your monthly bill was less than $50 and that got you completely free full medical coverage, would you be on board?

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    American Ninja ShinobiMusashi's Avatar

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    Default Re: ACA / Obamacare related question

    Quote Originally Posted by nazzer View Post
    That sounds like a tough financial pill to swallow (get the medical pun?). But what if your monthly bill was less than $50 and that got you completely free full medical coverage, would you be on board?
    Absolutely, I could even handle the 300 monthly bill if only i got fully covered, it would be worth it then, but 40% is not worth that much money, and i'm getting penalized like 700 this year for not taking that 300 a month deal up the kiester, straight in the ole culo either way with this system. Ain't worth a damn.
    Last edited by ShinobiMusashi; 01-24-2017 at 09:31 PM.

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    Senior Member Sea Slug's Avatar
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    Default Re: ACA / Obamacare related question

    I will not consider supporting the government to be in charge of my medical care again, even from just a financial perspective, until they cough up my medical record (I have made multiple requests. It's pretty much been an annual event starting in 2010).
    If all of mankind minus one were of of one opinion, and only one person of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.
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    Default Re: ACA / Obamacare related question

    As stated before, it isn't worth the money when it doesn't provide full coverage. Me and my husband just pay for the kids' insurance and ignore ourselves. We can't afford it.

    Thank you Surrender!!!
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    but secretly C to the C Engel's Avatar

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    Default Re: ACA / Obamacare related question

    Quote Originally Posted by ShinobiMusashi View Post
    I know for me personally it's a pretty big rip off, they wanted me to pay a substantial amount of money every month and then when it came time for me to use it they only covered 40% of my bill. So when it came time for me to use it, I still wouldn't be able to afford the 60% of the medical bills on top of the monthly bill they wanted(over 300 a month). I pay child support and take care of several family members that can't take care of themselves, there is no way I could afford to be scammed like this on a monthly basis. It's better for me to just save that 300+ a month and pay cash when i need to see a doctor. I'd rather just do without and hope for the best instead of taking a dick up the ass every month.
    Sadly this is not related at all to insurance. This is related to no regulation on the companies or medical pricing. Both were part of obamacare but the GOP gutted the provisions. During rapid fire attacks on Obamacare, reforms to pricing on medical procedures and insurance both were voted down, with a majority of GOP going all against and minority of dems supporting them. Essentially those who are taking big healthcare money will not support any limits to medical profit. This is one of the few areas Trump may have an edge as he may be able to whip the GOP in this area, but it will come with a backlash Aetna style where either health companies or insurance companies start to act against the public interest directly to try to make whatever reform is being pushed through fail out of spite.


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