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Thread: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

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    #throwback mikec's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    I'd guess anything more than circumstantial is attached to Manafort, whom the White House has been distancing themselves from for four or five days.

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    but secretly C to the C Engel's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    Quote Originally Posted by KingInTheNorth View Post
    Well. WELL.

    How about that shit?
    Yeah...

    With the 24/7 spin cycle and the delusional tea-party GOP, this will not do anything. The burden of proof is way too high now.


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    Anti-Anti-Smark Djm's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    Quote Originally Posted by KingInTheNorth View Post
    Well. WELL.

    How about that shit?
    FAKE NEWS! FAKE NEWS! CNN IS FAKE NEWS! MORE AMERICA-HATING LIBTARD CLINTON NEWS NETWORK!
    Quote Originally Posted by mx518
    he's one of the biggest smarks on this board and epitomizes everything that a smark actually is.
    Quote Originally Posted by mx518 View Post
    No, it's just called being realistic; I never thought I'd see DJM join the dark side.
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    is not your buddy, guy.

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    On a lighter note, all the memes of Trump driving that truck today are *100 emoji* *fire emoji* *cry laughing emoji* *check mark emoji*

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    Leaf & Rider Prider CM Punk'd's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    They've pulled the bill at Trump's request.

    It was either gonna be Ryan's, or Trump's ass. Looks like Ryan's gonna take the bullet. A loss for Trump through a vote would spell the end of any hope of re-election for him.
    Last edited by CM Punk'd; 03-24-2017 at 04:10 PM.

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    #throwback mikec's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    Nobody loses reelection 61 days into their presidency.

    Good day for America.

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    Mr. Hustle Big Stan's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    For Christ's sake, just fix the problems with Obamacare...the one's don't derive from the fact that it's connected to President Blackenstein. It was originally a Republican plan. This "Repeal or Nothing" attitude is beyond stupid.

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    but secretly C to the C Engel's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    So with Healthcare reform off the table for now, what exactly is Trump crowning achievement from his 100 days? 65 days in now, so healthcare will not get a second try.

    Really it looks like history will be telling the story of a compromised presidency exploited for private gain and backed by a foreign government. Paul Manafort now has ties with Russia. More and more people associated with Trump have these ties. Also it seems Trump while more than willing to cut government waste, does not care about his waste as his security costs from weekly vacations and his wife not wanting to be in the same house are adding up very, very fast.
    Last edited by Engel; 03-24-2017 at 10:27 PM.


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    Leaf & Rider Prider CM Punk'd's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Engel View Post
    So with Healthcare reform off the table for now, what exactly is Trump crowning achievement from his 100 days? 65 days in now, so healthcare will not get a second try.
    Keystone... for now. But Nebraska is gonna prevent that from happening.

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    I BITE! iNCY's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    If democracy is going to die it will be at the bloody hands of populism

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    but secretly C to the C Engel's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    While I want to agree with Mike that no one can ruin reelection this soon, Trump attacking the GOP who did not support his bill may be the exact moment his presidency becomes ruined. He attacks his own party and he could see anything he tries to pass blocked. It gets bad enough, and he may lose the House, which will then start an impeachment hearing. While an impeachment may not pass the Senate, the House will do it on principle I believe just to tank any chance at re-election. Figure 135 days or so remain then we are in reelection season already.

    Healthcare was a stupid move for Trump to lead in. Looking at his platform again, infrastructure should have been his first goal. Get American rebuilt and he could show people he was making America great again, while creating jobs, improving the environment and reducing energy costs. Then he would appear as the great deal maker he claimed he would be, and could pass deregulation on the basis of returning to status quo. Now he appears as the fraud everyone said he was, his approval rating will continue to drop and it looks like we may see the super rare incumbent challenge during the primary race.


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    #throwback mikec's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    Some tea leaves floating out there that Mike Flynn is now cooperating against POTUS and his campaign.

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    War has changed Silent Killer's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    Good. I hope that fucker gets impeached.

    I always thought Trump would make a terrible Prez, but some of his moves have been downright evil. Almost makes me long for the days of GWB.

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    They still play defense? The Real LT's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    Healthcare was a stupid move for Trump to lead in. Looking at his platform again, infrastructure should have been his first goal. Get American rebuilt and he could show people he was making America great again, while creating jobs, improving the environment and reducing energy costs. Then he would appear as the great deal maker he claimed he would be, and could pass deregulation on the basis of returning to status quo. Now he appears as the fraud everyone said he was, his approval rating will continue to drop and it looks like we may see the super rare incumbent challenge during the primary race.
    I couldn't agree more. Health care has always been a touchy agenda to lead an administration with. Clinton tried in 92 and loss both Houses of Congress to the Republicans. Obama pushed for the ACA within his first 2 years....and once again lost both Houses of Congress to the Republicans. Trump should have learned from history and tried to chalk up some wins that enjoyed broad support (*cough* INFRASTRUCTURE *cough*) before taking on something as polarizing as health care.

    I'm pretty sure others gave Trump the same advice, but as usual he listens to no voice but his own.

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    Mr. Hustle Big Stan's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    Trump couldn't help himself though...neither could the other Republicans in Congress for that matter. There really isn't a great alternative to Obamacare that doesn't involve either millions of people losing their health coverage or just going the single payer route. Obamacare is actually a pretty decent median between both extremes. Does it have problems? Absolutely...but those issues can be amended without gutting the whole damn thing.

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    #throwback mikec's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    Quote Originally Posted by The Real LT View Post

    I'm pretty sure others gave Trump the same advice, but as usual he listens to no voice but his own.
    Eh the story most often going around is that Trump wanted to do tax reform first which also won't be popular, but that Paul Ryan pushed healthcare first.

    Trump joining a populist "fuck yeah we're getting rid of Obamacare!" movement without having any fucking clue what his party actually wanted as a replacement was his bad idea. No Republican supports the kind of ideas he was proposing during the campaign.

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    Senior Member T-Bone's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    Quote Originally Posted by mikec View Post
    Eh the story most often going around is that Trump wanted to do tax reform first which also won't be popular, but that Paul Ryan pushed healthcare first.

    Trump joining a populist "fuck yeah we're getting rid of Obamacare!" movement without having any fucking clue what his party actually wanted as a replacement was his bad idea. No Republican supports the kind of ideas he was proposing during the campaign.
    Let`s be honest; there never was a replacement planned. The idea was to repeal and that was it. This might have honestly been the best plan they could come with. They pushed over 60 attempts to repeal it during Obama`s presidency but that was clearly only meant to be symbolic. There was never a plan past that. The other issue is because of the narrative they`ve pushed for so long in regards TO it; it`s even harder for them to come right out and even admit that most of what they`ve been saying about it is outright wrong.

    Credit to Trump though; he`s literally blamed everyone else but himself.

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    War has changed Silent Killer's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Let`s be honest; there never was a replacement planned. The idea was to repeal and that was it. This might have honestly been the best plan they could come with. They pushed over 60 attempts to repeal it during Obama`s presidency but that was clearly only meant to be symbolic. There was never a plan past that. The other issue is because of the narrative they`ve pushed for so long in regards TO it; it`s even harder for them to come right out and even admit that most of what they`ve been saying about it is outright wrong.

    Credit to Trump though; he`s literally blamed everyone else but himself.
    That's what is makes this healthcare situation so absurd. I'm no fan of Obama's foreign policy, but one thing do I give him credit for is that early in his presidency he very willing to make bipartisan deals. How you gonna protest and vote to repeal a law for 6 years, then have no strategy in place when you get your chance? The level of impotence in this is unreal.

    This is just another example of how broken the system has become. There is absolutely no respect for selfless governance. Career over country.

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    Senior Member T-Bone's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Killer View Post
    That's what is makes this healthcare situation so absurd. I'm no fan of Obama's foreign policy, but one thing do I give him credit for is that early in his presidency he very willing to make bipartisan deals. How you gonna protest and vote to repeal a law for 6 years, then have no strategy in place when you get your chance? The level of impotence in this is unreal.

    This is just another example of how broken the system has become. There is absolutely no respect for selfless governance. Career over country.
    Based on things said by quite a few Republicans after this failure; looks like they're only willing to do that stuff NOW. By damn near quoting things Obama had been saying for years in terms of bipartisanship. With zero sense of irony either.

    Guess it's a hard realization about their own party more than anything. It was easy when they were the opposition.
    Last edited by T-Bone; Today at 08:39 AM.

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    #throwback mikec's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    Yeah the word replace is new to the strategy. "We will repeal Obamacare" might've been doable, just get enough moderate Reps on board with fucking over their districts and moderate Senators with Medicaid expansion money on board with fucking their states and it would've worked.

    Turns out too many moderates are scared of fucking over their districts and too many tea party types are too safe to worry about the damage done by a harsher bill (so long as the Koch Brother funds still support them and not a primary opponent).

    My hope is this pushes conscientious congress members to fix Obamacare, but that also won't happen. Too few members of Congress willing to work with the opposition to make people's lives better.

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    Senior Member T-Bone's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    Quote Originally Posted by mikec View Post
    Yeah the word replace is new to the strategy. "We will repeal Obamacare" might've been doable, just get enough moderate Reps on board with fucking over their districts and moderate Senators with Medicaid expansion money on board with fucking their states and it would've worked.

    Turns out too many moderates are scared of fucking over their districts and too many tea party types are too safe to worry about the damage done by a harsher bill (so long as the Koch Brother funds still support them and not a primary opponent).

    My hope is this pushes conscientious congress members to fix Obamacare, but that also won't happen. Too few members of Congress willing to work with the opposition to make people's lives better.
    I can honestly see more active attempts to undercut it (they've already been doing so since the day Trump was elected) so that they can eventually justify just repealing it with no actual replacement (there will be one "in the future").

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    #throwback mikec's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    I don't know. Maybe, but Obamacare projections are for prices to level off and even better insured numbers so the moderates could even have a harder case to come from kicking 20 million people off healthcare.

    There are enough members of the House worried about losing their seat to stop them from being able to just repeal it to the way of the old world. That's where the replace mantra comes from.

    The problem with those projections is they don't account for how insurance companies respond to having a government openly rooting for the marketplace to fail in order to force people to the table. Insurance companies who want the Ryan plan might do their best to get out of the marketplaces just to push the hands in.

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    Senior Member T-Bone's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Trump Presidency - Making America Great Again

    Quote Originally Posted by mikec View Post
    I don't know. Maybe, but Obamacare projections are for prices to level off and even better insured numbers so the moderates could even have a harder case to come from kicking 20 million people off healthcare.

    There are enough members of the House worried about losing their seat to stop them from being able to just repeal it to the way of the old world. That's where the replace mantra comes from.

    The problem with those projections is they don't account for how insurance companies respond to having a government openly rooting for the marketplace to fail in order to force people to the table. Insurance companies who want the Ryan plan might do their best to get out of the marketplaces just to push the hands in.
    This is the main reason that I stated that I could see more attempts to undercut ACA. Without them doing a thing; it will remain more than fine. Is it perfect? No, it's not but it's significantly better than what Republicans have been pushing it as for years. So what happens when ... nothing happens? They look worse and, more importantly, can't take any real credit as improving it themselves. Thus, is where the undercutting comes in. If you can compromise it enough so that the horror it had been portrayed as rings true; it gives you that repeal justification without needing to think of a replacement at the same time.

    Normally, I'd think that was too cynical of a thought but given the actions by those in charge already (mixed with all the statements they've said in both the past and the very recent present); I would definitely not put it past them.

    The last paragraph that you wrote ... I didn't actually consider but could also see happening as well.

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