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Thread: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

  1. #26
    but secretly C to the C Engel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    So yeah, I finished it. I loved it. The director and guy who played were Rand were dead on, the early reviewers utterly fucked up here by only watching the first six episodes and judging the series based on them. I am not the biggest Iron Fist fan, so deviations I may have missed, but the series did risky slower burn for many things. So the early episodes have some really bad stuff in them, but once things get going around episode 6ish, they keep going. Also unlike the other series, the story is not really about Iron Fist. It is a story about Rand-Meachum, and fleshes out a lot of stuff that Daredevil just quickly dealt with. Madame Gao for example gets a lot more fleshed out for example. Because this was grounded into the Daredevil universe, where Daredevil is the martial arts master, Iron Fist went a different direction that was very risky, but I really dug. They focus on what it means to be an Iron Fist. The role of the Iron Fist is to destroy The Hand in this series. The Hand however to K'un-L'un is a boogyman, something they guard against but never seen.

    Series is not a martial arts series, and the director does make the fact that it is not and should not be a focal point of the show. Rand's relationship with Iron Fist comes post episode 6 and really defines him and sets him apart from guys like Daredevil. The story revolves around Rand Corporation, which true to the comics, is run by the surviving members of the Meachum, who grew up with Rand. Ward becomes Harold's son.

    The fights, I liked a lot. The ones in the first few episodes were lame, but the ones that come later were much better. Great fight against a girl who's name I forget that was good, and I loved the way they did the Steel Serpent fight. This is the unpowered Serpent. But yeah, the first fights were awful. Also logically, Rand can DESTROY any mortal foe with the fist, and some immortal ones, so they went a different way than expected with his fights. They do a fun take on the Bride of the Nine Spiders that is really good.

    Being the lead in to Defenders, this show does a HARD sell bringing a lot of people back. Claire, Madam Gao and Jeri Hogarth all appear, and Cage camoes. The actual Davos appears as Steel Serpent. Elektra's fate while not directly addressed is made obvious as well. The Hand plays a heavy role here, and it was up to this director to make them into something that is more than just demonic ninjas. And he nailed it here. I assume Defenders will get into the demon side of things more, but this showed the daily lives of the Hand when they are not ninjas.

    So yeah, great series, that rewards people who watched the others very well. Is it the best Iron Fist series that could have been made? Odds are no, but within the limitations of a shared universe that Rand really is not a part of yet, they did a damn good job, and cleaned up a lot of stuff that Daredevil did kind of sloppy to lead into Defenders.


    And Krimson:

    Spoiler
    Last edited by Engel; 03-18-2017 at 03:58 AM.


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  2. #27
    King of Font Style Krimzon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Engel View Post
    So yeah, I finished it. I loved it. The director and guy who played were Rand were dead on, the early reviewers utterly fucked up here by only watching the first six episodes and judging the series based on them. I am not the biggest Iron Fist fan, so deviations I may have missed, but the series did risky slower burn for many things. So the early episodes have some really bad stuff in them, but once things get going around episode 6ish, they keep going. Also unlike the other series, the story is not really about Iron Fist. It is a story about Rand-Meachum, and fleshes out a lot of stuff that Daredevil just quickly dealt with. Madame Gao for example gets a lot more fleshed out for example. Because this was grounded into the Daredevil universe, where Daredevil is the martial arts master, Iron Fist went a different direction that was very risky, but I really dug. They focus on what it means to be an Iron Fist. The role of the Iron Fist is to destroy The Hand in this series. The Hand however to K'un-L'un is a boogyman, something they guard against but never seen.

    Series is not a martial arts series, and the director does make the fact that it is not and should not be a focal point of the show. Rand's relationship with Iron Fist comes post episode 6 and really defines him and sets him apart from guys like Daredevil. The story revolves around Rand Corporation, which true to the comics, is run by the surviving members of the Meachum, who grew up with Rand. Ward becomes Harold's son.

    The fights, I liked a lot. The ones in the first few episodes were lame, but the ones that come later were much better. Great fight against a girl who's name I forget that was good, and I loved the way they did the Steel Serpent fight. This is the unpowered Serpent. But yeah, the first fights were awful. Also logically, Rand can DESTROY any mortal foe with the fist, and some immortal ones, so they went a different way than expected with his fights. They do a fun take on Poison that is really good.

    Being the lead in to Defenders, this show does a HARD sell bringing a lot of people back. Claire, Madam Gao and Jeri Hogarth all appear, and Cage camoes. The actual Davos appears as Steel Serpent. Elektra's fate while not directly addressed is made obvious as well. The Hand plays a heavy role here, and it was up to this director to make them into something that is more than just demonic ninjas. And he nailed it here. I assume Defenders will get into the demon side of things more, but this showed the daily lives of the Hand when they are not ninjas.

    So yeah, great series, that rewards people who watched the others very well. Is it the best Iron Fist series that could have been made? Odds are no, but within the limitations of a shared universe that Rand really is not a part of yet, they did a damn good job, and cleaned up a lot of stuff that Daredevil did kind of sloppy to lead into Defenders.


    And Krimson:

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  3. #28
    but secretly C to the C Engel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    Not going to argue it more, but yeah, it did go a bit too far.

    I really wonder what the fuck the director was thinking with the start of this series. The first two episodes playing with the idea that Rand may not be Iron Fist and instead crazy was one of the stupidest decisions that could be made. The show is called Iron Fist, if Rand was just straight out crazy there would be no show. Mix this in with that horrible first fight and this show doomed itself for early reviews.

    For me the turning point was around the end of episode 6, start of episode 7. It does not get great, but it is a total fan service IMO for fans of the other series by that point.

    I still want to see Heroes for Hire next. Unless they do Immortal Iron Fist, learn from the comics and pair Rand with Cage.

    The more I read of reviews the more hilarious I think they are. My favorite one so far questions why Rand is portrayed as the only Iron Fist, despite it being noted at several points that there were other Iron Fists before him, and that the Iron Fist is a station and not a person.


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    King of Font Style Krimzon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    The Iron Fist is supposed to be a supreme martial artist, right? Like 2nd in rank after Shang Chi? If so, why were his fight scenes so...basic? Most of the fight choreography in Daredevil was better. Really did this show a disservice. Hell, IMO, Danny Rand didn't even have the most memorable fight. That honor belongs to Colleen Wing. How could such a thing be allowed to happen?

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    but secretly C to the C Engel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    He is supposed to be a great at Kung-Fu, but not the best. Davos when empowered and Zhou Cheng outclass him. Junzo Muto outright killed him.

    At this point he does not have the Book of Iron Fist and said his training is not complete either. As a martial artist, I would place him on the level of Daredevil. But remember, Daredevil is still easily outclassed by Stick most of the time. I believe in Marvel Master Izo is the greatest? Chi would easily beat Iron Fist now that he can duplicate but not sure he could prior to this. Prior to this, I would place him below the Immortal Weapons. Foos or Spot will have to chime in here though, I really do not know this area of Marvel at all.


    After this season, I kind of wish Marvel would have had the chance to do Shadowland as the Defenders crossover. Daredevil being the villain would have been amazing and seeing Iron Fist take up the mantle of Daredevil would have been great. Also, would have been a great way to introduce Netflix to The Beast. So far we really have not seen why Stick fears The Hand so much that he betrayed Matt to kill the Velvet Sky. Daredevil becoming possessed would be a great way to show just how dangerous the Hand can be.


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  6. #31
    God is dead RagnarokMike's Avatar

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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    I feel like they didn't allot the proper amount of time to develop the fight scenes, like they let the people get the gist of it and said "Good enough." Much of it felt like they were doing a run through the choreography, I credit them for not doing shaky cam constant cuts to hide the weakness in the choreography (still a bit of it in there), but I feel like they needed additional time to develop them. The layouts all seemed solid, just didn't have a sense of exertion behind them, definite step back from Daredevil. And when you have fight scenes like Banshee and Into the Badlands, just further highlights that they weren't as polished as they needed to be.
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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    Saw the first four episodes last night and they were really weak. Hoping 5-13 ones will be better.

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    but secretly C to the C Engel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by RagnarokMike View Post
    I feel like they didn't allot the proper amount of time to develop the fight scenes, like they let the people get the gist of it and said "Good enough." Much of it felt like they were doing a run through the choreography, I credit them for not doing shaky cam constant cuts to hide the weakness in the choreography (still a bit of it in there), but I feel like they needed additional time to develop them. The layouts all seemed solid, just didn't have a sense of exertion behind them, definite step back from Daredevil. And when you have fight scenes like Banshee and Into the Badlands, just further highlights that they weren't as polished as they needed to be.
    Yeah it really felt like outside of a few fights, they had no idea how to write the fights at all. The Bride of the Nine Spiders fight for instance I loved, as I did the fight against Steel Serpent. But neither were written as a straight out fight. Zhou Cheng was a good fight and the end fight between Baraka and Wing was good, but a lot of the other ones were just really poorly planned. Seemed like they did not want to copy Daredevil, but by not doing that or making Rand into the one punch man, they made things really awkward.


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    Senior Member T-Bone's Avatar

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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Krimzon View Post
    Spoiler
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    With that said; I really liked Iron Fist. I would say it's easily the weakest of the four Marvel shows (I didn't mind the pace of the first half but I was already heavily invested in the lore; they really could have combined episodes 1 to 3 into just one episode and got it out of the way) but it fully hits its stride come episodes 5/6 and episode 10 might be the best episode of the series (and WILL definitely make the series better on rewatch but does open a few other questions that still didn't make much sense like Colleen cage fighting).

    While I said that it was easily the worst of the four; I feel like that comes off worse then I mean it as I consider Daredevil, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage to be damn near perfect.

    I pointed this out to a friend of mine who's about 3 episodes in but I feel it's the perfect description for both Danny and Colleen (in regards to the fight scenes): they're not naturally good fighters (the actors) but they CAN be carried to some good to great fights depending on the opponents. The other thing that I really did like about Iron Fist is that it truly does reward you for watching the other series.
    Last edited by T-Bone; 03-19-2017 at 10:53 PM.

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    The Otaku Prince Lony's Avatar

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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    I dug the hell out of Iron Fist, for the most part, admittedly it does take a few episodes to get into the series. I actually enjoyed Jessica Henwick as Colleen Wing, more than I did Finn Jones as Danny Rand/Iron Fist, though Finn was good in his role as well.

    As far as first seasons go, I enjoyed both Daredevil and Luke Cage more, though I'm not sure if I would rank it higher than Jessica Jones or not. On one hand, David Tennant's Kilgrave was far more interesting than any villain in Iron Fist, however, I'm not really a Krysten Ritter fan, and well she did a decent enough job as Jessica Jones, I would have preferred anyone else in the role.

    With that said, bring on The Defenders, as that shit is gonna be awesome as fuck.

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    Senior Member T-Bone's Avatar

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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    Something I forgot to mention in my previous post but the woman who plays Gao remains such a fantastic actor. Feel it needs to be reiterated.

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    King of Font Style Krimzon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Something I forgot to mention in my previous post but the woman who plays Gao remains such a fantastic actor. Feel it needs to be reiterated.
    She was EASILY the best part of the show. Without her, I can't even imagine how far this show would've fallen. I really wish they would just go ahead and confirm who we all can guess she is.

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    Senior Member T-Bone's Avatar

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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Engel View Post
    Not going to argue it more, but yeah, it did go a bit too far.

    I really wonder what the fuck the director was thinking with the start of this series. The first two episodes playing with the idea that Rand may not be Iron Fist and instead crazy was one of the stupidest decisions that could be made. The show is called Iron Fist, if Rand was just straight out crazy there would be no show. Mix this in with that horrible first fight and this show doomed itself for early reviews.

    For me the turning point was around the end of episode 6, start of episode 7. It does not get great, but it is a total fan service IMO for fans of the other series by that point.

    I still want to see Heroes for Hire next. Unless they do Immortal Iron Fist, learn from the comics and pair Rand with Cage.

    The more I read of reviews the more hilarious I think they are. My favorite one so far questions why Rand is portrayed as the only Iron Fist, despite it being noted at several points that there were other Iron Fists before him, and that the Iron Fist is a station and not a person.
    This one stands out even more. They show footage of the previous Iron Fist (wearing something similar to his comic costume).

  14. #39
    but secretly C to the C Engel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    I assume Gao will be revealed as Crane Mother when they end up doing the Tournament of the Heavenly Cities. But really, who else could she be given all that was revealed this season?


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    Senior Member T-Bone's Avatar

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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Engel View Post
    I assume Gao will be revealed as Crane Mother when they end up doing the Tournament of the Heavenly Cities. But really, who else could she be given all that was revealed this season?
    100% believe she's the Crane Mother. I will also admit that even if she isn't; she's just a fantastic add to the MCU.

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    but secretly C to the C Engel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    Wow fuck, completely mixed up who Davos was and thought he was Scythe, or the third of Gao's champions. I assumed that was Davos because Crane mother stopped the fight to save him completely not realizing that guy who appeared later was Davos. Name sounds really different in my head. Damn, I was like, what an awesome to set up Steel Serpent :Suspic:

    Anyway, the actor who played Davos said that his story will be expanded on in the second season if it happens, which I really hope they do. Not as obviously Immortal Iron Fist now, but it is the kind of story people expected this to be. Also, it is the best way I can think of to show people what Iron Fist is and it is the story that turned me into a fan.

    Noticing the reviews for this are heavily split. Fans of the other three shows seemed to really love this, while people who were not fans of the other ones, or only of one are likely to hate it. Daredevil fans seem to like it as it extends that story as well. This makes me wonder, could this be considered a failure if the target audience, and fans of the current universe they established loved it?


    On a side note, that sixth episode with the three fights was directed by none other than RZA from Wu-Tang Clan. Beginning to wonder how much better this series would have been if he was in charge as this episode more than any of the others seemed to really get Rand. Being a hardcore fan of Iron Fist I am sure helped him nail this.


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    Senior Member T-Bone's Avatar

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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Engel View Post
    Wow fuck, completely mixed up who Davos was and thought he was Scythe, or the third of Gao's champions. I assumed that was Davos because Crane mother stopped the fight to save him completely not realizing that guy who appeared later was Davos. Name sounds really different in my head. Damn, I was like, what an awesome to set up Steel Serpent :Suspic:

    Anyway, the actor who played Davos said that his story will be expanded on in the second season if it happens, which I really hope they do. Not as obviously Immortal Iron Fist now, but it is the kind of story people expected this to be. Also, it is the best way I can think of to show people what Iron Fist is and it is the story that turned me into a fan.

    Noticing the reviews for this are heavily split. Fans of the other three shows seemed to really love this, while people who were not fans of the other ones, or only of one are likely to hate it. Daredevil fans seem to like it as it extends that story as well. This makes me wonder, could this be considered a failure if the target audience, and fans of the current universe they established loved it?


    On a side note, that sixth episode with the three fights was directed by none other than RZA from Wu-Tang Clan. Beginning to wonder how much better this series would have been if he was in charge as this episode more than any of the others seemed to really get Rand. Being a hardcore fan of Iron Fist I am sure helped him nail this.
    That for me stood out more when you really note that that was when the series truly began to pick up.

    Honestly; the negative reviews make sense since it takes about that long to really get good and most people would likely not stick around that long. I would actually hope that RZA can direct most or at least part of Season 2.

    The other interesting part of that was that his very first directoral debut was something called "The Man with the Iron Fists."

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    but secretly C to the C Engel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    Yup, not sure if he outright stated he loves Iron Fist, but he made sure at least Bride of the Seven Spiders, Lei-Kung and Madame Gao all shined. Also he really nailed the sub-theme of Danny Rand fight to become more than a living weapon and made sure there was no doubt this time that she could use Chi. In Daredevil it was subtle that she hit Daredevil with a chi strike. Here it was clear.


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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    Okay, to the claim that this is not a martial arts series and Iron Fist is not supposed to a great, elite martial artists, I'm sorry but I don't buy that at all.

    First off, if an Iron Fist series is not a martial arts show then it is not the show it should be. How do you make an Iron Fist show and focus on corporate shenanigans instead of making it a martial arts extravaganza? Talk about disappointing creative direction.

    Second, if Iron Fist is not that great of a martial artist then what the hell is the point of his character? Rand's whole thing is that he is a top level martial artist. Come on, let's not pretend he's supposed to be a not so great martial artist to excuse poor martial arts choreography within the show. The truth is that Iron Fist has always been presented as one of Marvel's top martial artists. He spent his whole life training with martial arts masters, so he's not going to be a scrub when it comes to martial arts, he's going to be elite. The show failing to capture this crucial aspect of the character doesn't change the fact that Iron Fist is a master martial artist.

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    Commitment to Excellence ORaider27's Avatar

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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    That for me stood out more when you really note that that was when the series truly began to pick up.

    Honestly; the negative reviews make sense since it takes about that long to really get good and most people would likely not stick around that long. I would actually hope that RZA can direct most or at least part of Season 2.

    The other interesting part of that was that his very first directoral debut was something called "The Man with the Iron Fists."
    I saw that movie and loved it. Any fan of classic Asian martial arts films would enjoy it, I think. It takes the same approach as Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and similar movies with its portrayal of martial arts and its practitioners as super human with its use of wire work. It was on Netflix. I recommend martial arts movie fans watch it, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfer View Post
    Okay, to the claim that this is not a martial arts series and Iron Fist is not supposed to a great, elite martial artists, I'm sorry but I don't buy that at all.

    First off, if an Iron Fist series is not a martial arts show then it is not the show it should be. How do you make an Iron Fist show and focus on corporate shenanigans instead of making it a martial arts extravaganza? Talk about disappointing creative direction.

    Second, if Iron Fist is not that great of a martial artist then what the hell is the point of his character? Rand's whole thing is that he is a top level martial artist. Come on, let's not pretend he's supposed to be a not so great martial artist to excuse poor martial arts choreography within the show. The truth is that Iron Fist has always been presented as one of Marvel's top martial artists. He spent his whole life training with martial arts masters, so he's not going to be a scrub when it comes to martial arts, he's going to be elite. The show failing to capture this crucial aspect of the character doesn't change the fact that Iron Fist is a master martial artist.
    I'm only a couple episodes in but it seems clear to me that he's already very skilled, arguably already better than Daredevil. his besting of 5 security guards without seriously hurting them to get into the Rand building showed considerable skill. One of the most difficult things to do as a fighter is to best someone trying to hurt you while not hurting them. However, it also seems clear that his training might not be complete either.

    I'll admit that my knowledge of the character is limited as I only had a few Iron Fist comics but I'm loving the series so far and enjoy the early build up.
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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    I don't think this show is as awful as the critics say. But it is far from great. I agree with Surfer about the fighting. I offer an example of any single episode of Into the Badlands. Any of which have more fight scenes than the entire season of this. And the fighting here pales by comparison. Why we spent so much time on the corporate stuff is baffling to me. The Hand/ Kun Lun connection was shaky and poorly explained. And it seemed to me a lot of the Chinese and Japanese stuff wasn't well defined... as in which is which.

    Really need to rewatch the first season of DD. I could have sworn that the Hand was led by that dude and Crane mother led an unamed Chinese triad connected group. her mystical connections were alluded to of course. And then there's the problem of Stick representing the Chaste, the Hand Sworn enemy. And now we have Kun Lun also as an adversary. Not that the Hand couldn't have multiple enemies... I dunno it just seems weird. I guess it makes sense in the connective tissue sense of the shows being set so close to each other. And in bringing them all together.


    I did like the show mostly. Especially Colleen and Claire. Not that Finn Jones was bad but he certainly wasn't anything special. And I don't care if I ever see the inside of Rand and any Meachum's doing masive characters swings from scene to scene.


    Well... don'tcha?

  22. #47
    but secretly C to the C Engel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    Spot, you are correct. They retconned Daredevil season 1 to make Gao hand. We spent so much time on the corporate drama as that is what this showrunner does. Simply put, there was a huge mismatch in between the showrunner, Finn and Iron Fist. Finn was ok as an actor, but his martial arts sucked to the point of tanking that entire side of his character.

    Chaste's relation to the Seven Kingdom's REALLY needed to be addressed given he will be a big part of Defenders. Really everything attached to the Seven Kingdoms was fucking awful outside of Gao. Davos was great, except when he had to talk about K'un Lun. It makes me wonder if the showrunner had any idea about the story.

    I still liked it a lot, thought it fit well, but my final thoughts are this was a good marvel show, but it was not Iron Fist. It was a story that would be the same basically with any other character slotted in, superhero or otherwise.

    I also still have no idea why people insist that the actor who played Davos should have played Iron Fist or that an asian lead was needed. While Marvel can use Asian stars, the story of Iron Fist is that of an outsider. The entire white corporate new york scene is the backdrop for Rand. Swap him with an asian and the story does not work. The background no longer makes sense. It is the laziest possible way to handle the lack of Asians in this series anyway. Instead of writing better ethnic characters people just wanted to swap Finn for an Asian and just do the exact same script. Makes no sense. Moreso when Finn being an outsider is stated explicitly by Davos who knows he is the better fit for Iron Fist because he trained his entire life for the role, whereas Rand just came in, took the role and now does not care. Essentially it is a metaphor for appropriation, which people are complaining about, done by the Asian actor people wanted to be Iron Fist. But this was ignored completely.


    Collean I assume will spin off. Daughters of the Dragon is getting a lot of talk now, and would be a good show odds are.
    Last edited by Engel; 03-24-2017 at 10:19 PM.


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  23. #48
    God is dead RagnarokMike's Avatar

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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    Well, it hit big in ratings, so hopefully they can fix the woes a likely second season. Hopefully with more practice Jones becomes more believable in action. Hard to say how much was the choreography, and how much was his weakness, Wing's scenes tended to be a bit stronger, but a couple of Danny's were decent.
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    Sometimes a terrible idea is the best idea you got, and one thing I've learned, is always go with the best idea you got.

  24. #49
    but secretly C to the C Engel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    A lot of problems can be solved fast with Rand in a hood. Then Jones can be swapped in and out with a real martial artist. And give the series to RZA

    I love Davos's line, "You're the worst Iron Fist ever!"


    Flowers gathered in the morning,
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  25. #50
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    Default Re: Netflix's Iron Fist Discussion Thread w/ Trailer

    I'm 8 episodes in and I am finding myself with little desire to finish it which is really weird because I usually love closure. I just can't get over how bad Finn Jones is in the lead. Like I kind of get what they were going for like a fish out of water type vibe but he doesn't pull off wise and he doesn't pull off the kung fu, all he pulls off is seeming like he is still 12 years old. I like a few aspects of it like Harold and Ward and I liked Colleen until it seems like they did a 180 with her character. Maybe someday I'll watch the end but I'm not in any rush.

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