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Thread: The Daily Shooting Thread, for your Gun Murder News, Updated Daily.

  1. #26
    Senior Member Shades of Grey's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    Crime rates being down doesn't mean as much to me when you compare the number of gun related crimes in the US to any other modern super power. I remember reading after the Aurora shooting that the percentage of gun related murders in the US was 20 times higher than all other western countries combined. That's clearly a problem.

    I don't know what the answer is to completely reduce those numbers, but I do know that gun lobbyists are spending a ton of money in order to make sure it doesn't happen. How anyone could be against stronger background checks at this point is beyond me.

  2. #27
    #Dealwithit sB's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by The Real LT View Post
    Because the first knee jerk reaction of every liberal is to "we need more gun control" even though the overall crime rate has dropped every year for over 2 decades.

    Gun Control does not mean "Taking guns away". There is a difference. Because it is quite obvious now that what is currently going on is not working.

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  3. #28
    They still play defense? The Real LT's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by sB View Post
    Gun Control does not mean "Taking guns away". There is a difference. Because it is quite obvious now that what is currently going on is not working.
    It NEVER stops there.

    When the gun control nuts pass legislation and it fails, the talking point is always "We need more gun control"

  4. #29
    Senior Member L F's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by The Real LT View Post
    It NEVER stops there.

    When the gun control nuts pass legislation and it fails, the talking point is always "We need more gun control"
    What do you think should be done? Nothing and just accept regular school shootings as part of american culture?

    I don't know what the answer is to completely reduce those numbers, but I do know that gun lobbyists are spending a ton of money in order to make sure it doesn't happen. How anyone could be against stronger background checks at this point is beyond me.
    Blah blah blah freedom or something.

  5. #30
    The Devil's Eyes BigRed's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Shades of Grey View Post
    Crime rates being down doesn't mean as much to me when you compare the number of gun related crimes in the US to any other modern super power. I remember reading after the Aurora shooting that the percentage of gun related murders in the US was 20 times higher than all other western countries combined. That's clearly a problem.

    I don't know what the answer is to completely reduce those numbers, but I do know that gun lobbyists are spending a ton of money in order to make sure it doesn't happen. How anyone could be against stronger background checks at this point is beyond me.
    But how does implementing stronger background checks prevent something like this shooting or similar ones we've seen where the issue falls on irresponsible parents? Some news articles have speculated whether the parents ought to or could face liability therein. I absolutely think they should to be honest.

  6. #31
    but secretly C to the C Engel's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    Fact is most of the people who want guns are the ones who need them least and are the most liable to irresponsibly use them.


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  7. #32
    Senior Member vendrell's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    Fact is if someone wants a gun bad enough, they can get their hands on it. Background checks won't do shit if they go through alternative means to get a gun. You don't need a background check when you can just dig it out of Uncle Joe's tool box. I'm not saying background checks are useless of course because even if it only stops one incident like this it's totally worth it,But in America it's sadly a battle that is lost. Gun violence in America just is. It's kind of like the war on drugs now, it's just a thing that will never end. As long as there are guns on the street, this stuff will happen in America. Simple as that.

  8. #33
    #Dealwithit sB's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by The Real LT View Post
    It NEVER stops there.

    When the gun control nuts pass legislation and it fails, the talking point is always "We need more gun control"
    That's because we "NEED" a change from what currently is going on. I still don't see how "gun control" automatically means "taking our guns away". It means that its time for the United States to look at the current polices that are in place and see what's not working and work to fix it because this is becoming a ridiculous and sad problem.

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  9. #34
    Sport. Kemis.'s Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    I'd suggest if the people against this had actually had it directly impact their lives, they'd feel different, unless they were true nutcases.

    Congresswoman Griffords and her husband own guns and were sympathetic to the NRA. That all changed when they were impacted by, and felt the effects of such a devastating act. Unless you witness such a horrific act, I guess you are consigned to denial of its effects on society.

    As for the complaints about rights, that's a load of rubbish. America is living by a Constitution created hundreds of years ago. Do you know how crazy that sounds to most of the rest of the world?

  10. #35
    They still play defense? The Real LT's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Kemis. View Post
    I'd suggest if the people against this had actually had it directly impact their lives, they'd feel different, unless they were true nutcases.

    Congresswoman Griffords and her husband own guns and were sympathetic to the NRA. That all changed when they were impacted by, and felt the effects of such a devastating act. Unless you witness such a horrific act, I guess you are consigned to denial of its effects on society.

    As for the complaints about rights, that's a load of rubbish. America is living by a Constitution created hundreds of years ago. Do you know how crazy that sounds to most of the rest of the world?
    About as crazy as most Americans think restricting firearms to the miltary and police is.


    Let me as blunt as possible on this.....I give a flying fuck what the rest of the world thinks on this issue.

  11. #36
    Super Civilian MachoWarrior's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by The Real LT View Post
    Let me as blunt as possible on this.....I give a flying fuck what the rest of the world thinks on this issue.
    I'll expand on that: "The rest of the world", who often blindly despises 300 million couldn't-be-any-different-from-each-other people because of decisions made by our government, complains about us sticking our Yank noses in things that "don't concern us", and then turns around and hypocritically does the exact same thing. Individually in the world, there are lots of great folks out there as we already know from years of PW. But collectively, yeah, it can pretty much fuck off and go worry about it's own problems.

  12. #37
    Senior Member Shades of Grey's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    We don't stick our noses in other people's business. We occupy countries and kill people -- many, if not most of them completely innocent -- from drones in the sky. No one from any other country is doing the exact same thing to us on the issue of gun control in the states. At most, they look at the fact that there are more guns per capita in the US than there are in freaking Yemen and then roll their eyes at us.

    The attitude that the rest of the world can fuck off is in large part exactly what's wrong with our country today.

  13. #38
    Super Civilian MachoWarrior's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Shades of Grey View Post
    We don't stick our noses in other people's business. We occupy countries and kill people -- many, if not most of them completely innocent -- from drones in the sky. No one from any other country is doing the exact same thing to us on the issue of gun control in the states. At most, they look at the fact that there are more guns per capita in the US than there are in freaking Yemen and then roll their eyes at us.The attitude that the rest of the world can fuck off is in large part exactly what's wrong with our country today.
    Again though, that's the government, not me, and I'm assuming not you, either. I'm not occupying countries- I go to work, raise a family, play the drums- I'm not bothering anybody. I think the internet gradually gave me that "fuck 'em, then" attitude which I never had before- not so much a problem on PW (although there are the repeat offenders that love to criticize every aspect of our culture, even if it affects them zero percent- we all know who they are), but go pretty much anywhere else online that has comment sections (any content) and the anti-American malice towards citizens, me and you, not the government for the stupid shit they do, is everywhere, it never stops, it's often just made-up nonsense, and it's infuriating. But, people are badasses when they're hiding behind their keyboard and have no repercussions. Go find pretty much any 9-11 video on Youtube, read the spiteful comments aimed at you and your family, regular citizens minding their own business, and then say, "Oh, that's okay, everybody has a right to their opinion, even if I don't agree!". If someone says they can do that and not get furious, then I'd say they're full of shit.

    I didn't realize that insulting every single thing we do (most of it blown out of proportion, exaggerated, or completely fabricated and believed) was such an epidemic until the trolling anonymity of the internet came into play. You can pretty much count on some drooling jackass to belch out "HURR DERR McDonalds GUNS 'Murica!" for any reason, which I guess is considered high comedy in other places, but yes, it gets old, it gets me angry, and as someone who naively thought growing up that many other countries would be great to visit someday, that's something I no longer would want to do. You hate me because of the patch of land I reside on? Well, fine, go to hell. I remember Tommy who used to post here saying he was afraid to vacation here because he thought he'd "get shot" because, you know, we all just go around shooting each other all day. It bothered me that he was brainwashed like so many others into thinking that. I don't own a gun, can't stand them, I only know maybe two or three people that do, and they're hunters who kill for the meat. Other than that, there's no need at all to own one, it's usually a small-dick thing, but this big misconception that we all just run around here like some spaghetti western saloon is a product of taking an isolated tragedy and claiming that that kind of shit just happens to everybody all day long here. Ya know, because 'Murica! So yeah, individually, tons of great people. Collectively, if "The rest of the world" wants to act like an asshole, and that's the impression it purposely gives me, then yes, it can fuck off. I never did anything to hurt it. And you know, it's been a long time since I've had a good ol' Macho random rant-out-of-nowhere on PW, so there ya go, guys. Don't forget to tip the WI mods.

  14. #39
    Moderately Moderating Michinokudriver's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    The more I think about it, the more I (sadly) figure this is about as good as it's going to get.

    In both this shooting and the Sandy Hook school shooting, the crimes were committed with guns taken from their parents. So a background check would not have helped, since the guns were sold to the parents, and the parents obviously did not feel they should leave the guns inaccessible to their children. Maybe the thinking was that you have weapons available in case they're home in the afternoon and a robber comes on by, I dunno. But in any case, these guns were made easily accessible to the (family member) shooters, and in the future they will continually be made available to gun owners' (usually responsible) family members.

    So unless we're proposing that whenever someone wants to buy a gun, a background check be conducted on not just the purchaser but the entire household -- but that sounds like a rather drastic measure and even then I really don't think that would do much good.

    A total gun ban would not work in the States. For one thing, it's completely politically infeasible and for another thing it would be completely ineffectual. Even if there were a magic genie for whom you could snap your fingers and turn all the guns within country borders into trees, the borders are porous enough and the shipping routes unchecked enough that you could very quickly and very easily get guns right back into the US.

    So given that the Pandora's box that are guns is never going away, and that even if 99.9% of gun owners responsibly lock them up that means there are .01% of owners who don't, this really might be about all we can do and the random shootings are just going to be a fact of life, just like drunk drivers.

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  15. #40
    The Devil's Eyes BigRed's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, most issues that are divisive can most easily be distilled down to one reason for why they are divisive: misunderstanding. Both sides of the divide have misconceptions and preconceived ideas about what the other side believes, how they act and so forth. I think that can be applied to most issues, including the gun debate. Most gun owners are, shockingly enough, people with families and lives that are perfectly as normal as a person that does not own a gun. Likewise, most people against guns are not doing so with malicious intent or nefarious motivations. They have good intentions, as most people do.

    Moreover, I find the question of, "Why do you need a gun?" to be an asinine starter in an intelligent discourse. It's arrogant, presumptuous and not at all constructive IMO.

    Also, I don't understand why the Constitution and the rule of law is a source of mockery? Beyond even that, though, even if we did not have a Constitution with a Bill of Rights and a 2nd Amendment, I would still firmly believe in the right to self-defense, which entails gun ownership. The Constitution just backs it up, whether lawmakers want to abide by it is a different story, but rights are based on our humanness, not a piece of paper created a coupe hundred years ago.

  16. #41
    Senior Member Shades of Grey's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    I don't think anyone actually IN the United States is saying we should get rid of all guns, but there absolutely need to be tighter restrictions on how a person goes about obtaining one. Hell, you can buy a gun online right now and not even have a background check. Ditto if you're buying from a private seller, which accounts for a significant percentage of all gun sales. We have the loosest and most vague federal regulations of any industrialized country in the world, and that's unfortunately not hyperbole. On top of that, congress (read: Republicans, at the behest of the NRA and similar lobbyists) have intentionally stripped the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms of almost any power in enforcing the few regulations we do have.

    Until this year, the ATF didn't even have a permanent Director in place since 2006 because of a piece of legislation the NRA kindly wrote for Senator Sensenbrenner that was sneakily added as a provision to the Patriot Act, making the appointment of Director contingent on a vote of confirmation from the Senate. Then, of course, Senate Republicans merrily went on their way filibustering any nomination for the position. And the worst part is, no one even had the decency to lie and pretend it was for a good reason. The NRA openly admits that it lobbied Republican Senators to filibuster any nomination in order to keep the ATF weak. There have been so many ridiculous restrictions placed on the ATF in the last 15 years, it defies reason. I won't bother listing them all; just do a quick Google search on ATF restrictions and you'll be provided with hours of entertainment.

  17. #42
    Electro-pop music Leper Messiah's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by L F View Post
    What do you think should be done? Nothing and just accept regular school shootings as part of american culture?
    We could start by doing more funding to help cure and correct mental health problems, and less on gun control legislation. Most of these shootings are carried by people suffering from depression, schizophrenia, social anxiety, and so one. As long as people have mental problems, there will always be mass murders.

    Banning assault rifles won't stop school shootings and massacres. At best, your taking a belt and tightening it to slow up the bleeding of a deep gash, a gash that's gonna continue to bleed no matter what. Ban semi-automatic guns, they'll go to shotguns, then next it will be "ban shotguns". Ban shotguns, then they go to rifles, then those will be next on the list, until even a one shot pistol is banned. Then we'll have consider banning knives, since stabbings would go up. My need to reconsider banning bombs, which are already illegal, since they can harm and kill.

    Hell, maybe we should just let every one in a school, students, teachers, staff and security carry guns on campus. Research shows states that pass concealed carry laws have a drop in gun violence and crimes. All those guns would even the score against the shooter, when you think about it. I know it sounds bat shit insane, but every side of gun control debate is insane.

  18. #43
    Erect Member William's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Shades of Grey View Post
    I don't think anyone actually IN the United States is saying we should get rid of all guns, but there absolutely need to be tighter restrictions on how a person goes about obtaining one. Hell, you can buy a gun online right now and not even have a background check.
    I hear this all the time but I'm not sure how accurate it is. I know someone who has bought guns online and he's always had to have it shipped to a local pawn shop, where he then had to go through a background check. There may be a loophole if the gun never has to cross state lines, but I'm not positive. Essentially you're just ordering and paying for the firearm online, then having it shipped to a licensed retailer where you go through everything you normally would if you had bought it there.

    As far as gun sales between individuals, I don't know how you could enforce background checks without requiring all guns to be registered, and I'm not sure if that's feasible.

  19. #44
    Senior Member Shades of Grey's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    I hear this all the time but I'm not sure how accurate it is. I know someone who has bought guns online and he's always had to have it shipped to a local pawn shop, where he then had to go through a background check. There may be a loophole if the gun never has to cross state lines, but I'm not positive. Essentially you're just ordering and paying for the firearm online, then having it shipped to a licensed retailer where you go through everything you normally would if you had bought it there.

    As far as gun sales between individuals, I don't know how you could enforce background checks without requiring all guns to be registered, and I'm not sure if that's feasible.
    If you're brave enough to put yourself on who knows what sort of list, you can just do a quick google search about buying guns online with no background checks. It definitely exists. But common sense will tell you that if you can buy a gun from a private owner in person without needing a background check, then there are likely private owners who will sell you a gun through the internet as well.

  20. #45
    Jvance
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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    My issue with banning things is that it never stops once you open that door. The ban on assault weapons open the door to a complete takeover of our gun rights and the erasing of the 2nd amendment. I agree, throw up some stricter background checks but banning weapons is a no go where i'm from and of course any sort of law passed that craps on the 2nd amendment will be met with force. NOBODY is taking my guns away. I don't care what kind of laws those cookoo liberals try to drum up to strip our rights away, it ain't happening.

  21. #46
    but secretly C to the C Engel's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    Did a ban on nuclear, chemical of biological weapons lead to removing your second amendment rights? And if gun control is passed, well, people like you will lose your guns when people with better guns demand them.


    Flowers gathered in the morning,
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  22. #47
    Electro-pop music Leper Messiah's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    In terms of the government taking guns by force, there is no stopping that. If it became tyrannical, so to speak, we have guns, but they have tanks.


    Really, the second amendment is important to up hold to protect yourself from the average citizen. The theory seems to be banning will keep the out of the hands of gang members and other "loonies". However, most gang members get a hold of them now when they aren't allowed to. If they want to find a way to get one, they will. Banning guns won't solve the main issue at hand, of why people kill. We banned most drugs in this country, and people still get ahold of cocaine, marijuana, heroin, meth, and so forth, if that shows you anything.

  23. #48
    Erect Member William's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Shades of Grey View Post
    If you're brave enough to put yourself on who knows what sort of list, you can just do a quick google search about buying guns online with no background checks. It definitely exists. But common sense will tell you that if you can buy a gun from a private owner in person without needing a background check, then there are likely private owners who will sell you a gun through the internet as well.
    It's not legal to buy guns online without a background check from gun dealers, but there are sites that connect individuals that want to buy and sell guns like a firearms version of Napster. And you know the progress the government has made in ending internet piracy. How would enacting any new laws fix online guns sales?

  24. #49
    Given A 2nd Chance Blindy's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Jvance View Post
    So I guess we can expect another Obama press conference where he fake cries and acts like he gives a damn about the victims in hopes of taking away our second amendment rights. Bastard.

    This is a simple case of a gun falling into evil hands. That is going to happen no matter how many restrictions you try and make. If somebody wants a gun bad enough, they will get one. They only way to stop things like this is to get rid of all guns but then we are sitting ducks for this administration or whatever liberal president comes along next to try and take away more of our rights. So that simply can't happen. Thankfully there are enough good conservatives who will fight for this country and our values.

    It's sad but there isn't much that can be done. That's the sad truth. Everybody always asks how this stuff can be prevented and the truth is, a lot of times it can't.
    Can't believe I am saying this but I agree with this post. Almost everything about this post.

    Though fuck this Jose Reyes kid though. Why shoot the teacher? Just off yourself and rid the world of yet another person who is stealing fresh air, food, water and other supplies. Fucking hate pieces of shit like this. Father shoulda smacked some sense into his mouth before this kid thinks he's some martyr. So easy to look badass with a gun against people without it. Big deal.

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  25. #50
    #Dealwithit sB's Avatar

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    Default Re: More fun with weapons

    Are we still on this whole "they are taking our guns away" "second amendment blah, blah blah." A change in gun regulations does not mean they are going to take your precious fire arms away. But by the way you are acting about it, maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea....

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