Crime rates being down doesn't mean as much to me when you compare the number of gun related crimes in the US to any other modern super power. I remember reading after the Aurora shooting that the percentage of gun related murders in the US was 20 times higher than all other western countries combined. That's clearly a problem.
I don't know what the answer is to completely reduce those numbers, but I do know that gun lobbyists are spending a ton of money in order to make sure it doesn't happen. How anyone could be against stronger background checks at this point is beyond me.
Blah blah blah freedom or something.I don't know what the answer is to completely reduce those numbers, but I do know that gun lobbyists are spending a ton of money in order to make sure it doesn't happen. How anyone could be against stronger background checks at this point is beyond me.
Fact is most of the people who want guns are the ones who need them least and are the most liable to irresponsibly use them.
Flowers gathered in the morning,
Afternoon they blossom on,
Still are withered by the evening:
You can be me when I'm gone.
Fact is if someone wants a gun bad enough, they can get their hands on it. Background checks won't do shit if they go through alternative means to get a gun. You don't need a background check when you can just dig it out of Uncle Joe's tool box. I'm not saying background checks are useless of course because even if it only stops one incident like this it's totally worth it,But in America it's sadly a battle that is lost. Gun violence in America just is. It's kind of like the war on drugs now, it's just a thing that will never end. As long as there are guns on the street, this stuff will happen in America. Simple as that.
I'd suggest if the people against this had actually had it directly impact their lives, they'd feel different, unless they were true nutcases.
Congresswoman Griffords and her husband own guns and were sympathetic to the NRA. That all changed when they were impacted by, and felt the effects of such a devastating act. Unless you witness such a horrific act, I guess you are consigned to denial of its effects on society.
As for the complaints about rights, that's a load of rubbish. America is living by a Constitution created hundreds of years ago. Do you know how crazy that sounds to most of the rest of the world?
We don't stick our noses in other people's business. We occupy countries and kill people -- many, if not most of them completely innocent -- from drones in the sky. No one from any other country is doing the exact same thing to us on the issue of gun control in the states. At most, they look at the fact that there are more guns per capita in the US than there are in freaking Yemen and then roll their eyes at us.
The attitude that the rest of the world can fuck off is in large part exactly what's wrong with our country today.
I didn't realize that insulting every single thing we do (most of it blown out of proportion, exaggerated, or completely fabricated and believed) was such an epidemic until the trolling anonymity of the internet came into play. You can pretty much count on some drooling jackass to belch out "HURR DERR McDonalds GUNS 'Murica!" for any reason, which I guess is considered high comedy in other places, but yes, it gets old, it gets me angry, and as someone who naively thought growing up that many other countries would be great to visit someday, that's something I no longer would want to do. You hate me because of the patch of land I reside on? Well, fine, go to hell. I remember Tommy who used to post here saying he was afraid to vacation here because he thought he'd "get shot" because, you know, we all just go around shooting each other all day. It bothered me that he was brainwashed like so many others into thinking that. I don't own a gun, can't stand them, I only know maybe two or three people that do, and they're hunters who kill for the meat. Other than that, there's no need at all to own one, it's usually a small-dick thing, but this big misconception that we all just run around here like some spaghetti western saloon is a product of taking an isolated tragedy and claiming that that kind of shit just happens to everybody all day long here. Ya know, because 'Murica! So yeah, individually, tons of great people. Collectively, if "The rest of the world" wants to act like an asshole, and that's the impression it purposely gives me, then yes, it can fuck off. I never did anything to hurt it. And you know, it's been a long time since I've had a good ol' Macho random rant-out-of-nowhere on PW, so there ya go, guys. Don't forget to tip the WI mods.
The more I think about it, the more I (sadly) figure this is about as good as it's going to get.
In both this shooting and the Sandy Hook school shooting, the crimes were committed with guns taken from their parents. So a background check would not have helped, since the guns were sold to the parents, and the parents obviously did not feel they should leave the guns inaccessible to their children. Maybe the thinking was that you have weapons available in case they're home in the afternoon and a robber comes on by, I dunno. But in any case, these guns were made easily accessible to the (family member) shooters, and in the future they will continually be made available to gun owners' (usually responsible) family members.
So unless we're proposing that whenever someone wants to buy a gun, a background check be conducted on not just the purchaser but the entire household -- but that sounds like a rather drastic measure and even then I really don't think that would do much good.
A total gun ban would not work in the States. For one thing, it's completely politically infeasible and for another thing it would be completely ineffectual. Even if there were a magic genie for whom you could snap your fingers and turn all the guns within country borders into trees, the borders are porous enough and the shipping routes unchecked enough that you could very quickly and very easily get guns right back into the US.
So given that the Pandora's box that are guns is never going away, and that even if 99.9% of gun owners responsibly lock them up that means there are .01% of owners who don't, this really might be about all we can do and the random shootings are just going to be a fact of life, just like drunk drivers.
Nominee: PW's Most Knowledgeable Poster, 2006
Co-winner: PW's Most Knowledgeable Nerd, 2006
I've said it before and I'll say it again, most issues that are divisive can most easily be distilled down to one reason for why they are divisive: misunderstanding. Both sides of the divide have misconceptions and preconceived ideas about what the other side believes, how they act and so forth. I think that can be applied to most issues, including the gun debate. Most gun owners are, shockingly enough, people with families and lives that are perfectly as normal as a person that does not own a gun. Likewise, most people against guns are not doing so with malicious intent or nefarious motivations. They have good intentions, as most people do.
Moreover, I find the question of, "Why do you need a gun?" to be an asinine starter in an intelligent discourse. It's arrogant, presumptuous and not at all constructive IMO.
Also, I don't understand why the Constitution and the rule of law is a source of mockery? Beyond even that, though, even if we did not have a Constitution with a Bill of Rights and a 2nd Amendment, I would still firmly believe in the right to self-defense, which entails gun ownership. The Constitution just backs it up, whether lawmakers want to abide by it is a different story, but rights are based on our humanness, not a piece of paper created a coupe hundred years ago.
I don't think anyone actually IN the United States is saying we should get rid of all guns, but there absolutely need to be tighter restrictions on how a person goes about obtaining one. Hell, you can buy a gun online right now and not even have a background check. Ditto if you're buying from a private seller, which accounts for a significant percentage of all gun sales. We have the loosest and most vague federal regulations of any industrialized country in the world, and that's unfortunately not hyperbole. On top of that, congress (read: Republicans, at the behest of the NRA and similar lobbyists) have intentionally stripped the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms of almost any power in enforcing the few regulations we do have.
Until this year, the ATF didn't even have a permanent Director in place since 2006 because of a piece of legislation the NRA kindly wrote for Senator Sensenbrenner that was sneakily added as a provision to the Patriot Act, making the appointment of Director contingent on a vote of confirmation from the Senate. Then, of course, Senate Republicans merrily went on their way filibustering any nomination for the position. And the worst part is, no one even had the decency to lie and pretend it was for a good reason. The NRA openly admits that it lobbied Republican Senators to filibuster any nomination in order to keep the ATF weak. There have been so many ridiculous restrictions placed on the ATF in the last 15 years, it defies reason. I won't bother listing them all; just do a quick Google search on ATF restrictions and you'll be provided with hours of entertainment.
Banning assault rifles won't stop school shootings and massacres. At best, your taking a belt and tightening it to slow up the bleeding of a deep gash, a gash that's gonna continue to bleed no matter what. Ban semi-automatic guns, they'll go to shotguns, then next it will be "ban shotguns". Ban shotguns, then they go to rifles, then those will be next on the list, until even a one shot pistol is banned. Then we'll have consider banning knives, since stabbings would go up. My need to reconsider banning bombs, which are already illegal, since they can harm and kill.
Hell, maybe we should just let every one in a school, students, teachers, staff and security carry guns on campus. Research shows states that pass concealed carry laws have a drop in gun violence and crimes. All those guns would even the score against the shooter, when you think about it. I know it sounds bat shit insane, but every side of gun control debate is insane.
As far as gun sales between individuals, I don't know how you could enforce background checks without requiring all guns to be registered, and I'm not sure if that's feasible.
My issue with banning things is that it never stops once you open that door. The ban on assault weapons open the door to a complete takeover of our gun rights and the erasing of the 2nd amendment. I agree, throw up some stricter background checks but banning weapons is a no go where i'm from and of course any sort of law passed that craps on the 2nd amendment will be met with force. NOBODY is taking my guns away. I don't care what kind of laws those cookoo liberals try to drum up to strip our rights away, it ain't happening.
Did a ban on nuclear, chemical of biological weapons lead to removing your second amendment rights? And if gun control is passed, well, people like you will lose your guns when people with better guns demand them.
Flowers gathered in the morning,
Afternoon they blossom on,
Still are withered by the evening:
You can be me when I'm gone.
In terms of the government taking guns by force, there is no stopping that. If it became tyrannical, so to speak, we have guns, but they have tanks.
Really, the second amendment is important to up hold to protect yourself from the average citizen. The theory seems to be banning will keep the out of the hands of gang members and other "loonies". However, most gang members get a hold of them now when they aren't allowed to. If they want to find a way to get one, they will. Banning guns won't solve the main issue at hand, of why people kill. We banned most drugs in this country, and people still get ahold of cocaine, marijuana, heroin, meth, and so forth, if that shows you anything.
Though fuck this Jose Reyes kid though. Why shoot the teacher? Just off yourself and rid the world of yet another person who is stealing fresh air, food, water and other supplies. Fucking hate pieces of shit like this. Father shoulda smacked some sense into his mouth before this kid thinks he's some martyr. So easy to look badass with a gun against people without it. Big deal.
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Are we still on this whole "they are taking our guns away" "second amendment blah, blah blah." A change in gun regulations does not mean they are going to take your precious fire arms away. But by the way you are acting about it, maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea....
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