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Thread: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - It's a THING!

  1. #101
    An AJPW Guy Emperor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    Daniel Bryan winning the WWE Title is certainly a logical story progression, having been screwed out of it so many times, and it's certainly something the fans want, but it's not the only way forward.

    I wouldn't argue that Daniel Bryan vs HHH has been consistently built up since Summerslam, but there is more than enough material there for an overwhelmingly compelling match/storyline between Daniel Bryan and Triple H. Triple H was directly responsible for the first screwjob in Montreal (edit: I clearly had other screwjobs on my mind...) at Summerslam, he was involved in the HIAC screwjob, and it is very likely that he has been indirectly involved in every other screwjob. That's not to mention the B+ player stuff, the weeks following Summerslam, the "I only fight stars" line, and Triple H taunting the fans on the post-Rumble RAW. I understand that Triple H's character has been flip-floppy since this whole story started, but his general disdain and dismissive nature towards Daniel Bryan has been constant throughout. It's clear that beating guys like John Cena and Randy Orton isn't enough to prove himself. Winning the WWE Championship isn't enough. What's left for Daniel Bryan to do to, as Falcone said earlier, "get the monkey off his back"? He must prove himself directly against Triple H. Winning the WWE Championship will follow from this.

    That all being said, this is easily my most anticipated Wrestlemania match. The story has generally been very compelling for me. Triple H has been god-like when he has gone full heel in The Authority; he knows how to rile up the pro-Bryan fans like none other. This means that not only will we get a great in-ring match, but the crowd reaction will make it extra special. And I say that six weeks before Wrestlemania. The hype train will be even bigger once the proper build to their match begins. I'm excited. Very excited.

  2. #102
    Senior Member Burlap Sac's Avatar
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    Quote Originally Posted by DX Warrior View Post
    Ok there will be run ins but the run ins I'll like to see are
    For team HHH are Vince McMahon ,HBK, new age outlaws, x pac, Nash, Stephanie, Hollywood hogan, Shane McMahon or even stone cold
    For team YES are CM Punk, masked kane, the sheild, john cena, the miz, dolph ziggler
    wat

  3. #103
    Senior Member Vince Mcmahon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    Quote Originally Posted by DC The Champ View Post
    On the issue of doubt in a compelling story ...

    There is a difference between doubting that Luke Skywalker will redeem Darth Vader and defeat the Emperor, and doubting whether Revenge of the Sith would be a good movie. One is something that Lucas intentionally created to drive the emotion of the story for the viewer. The other is because Lucas burned us on Attack of the Clones and The Phantom Menace, and we didn't want to be burned again. One form of doubt is helpful and leads to a more emotionally captivating story; the other form of doubt is harmful because it keeps people from investing emotionally.

    Deej is talking about the latter form of doubt: a fundamental lack of faith in WWE to bring this storyline to a satisfactory conclusion. That is a direct result of WWE's incompetence displayed throughout this storyline. Even though we're finally getting the Triple H-Daniel Bryan match (just like Revenge of the Sith was a markedly better movie than Attack of the Clones), people are still hesitant to allow themselves to invest emotionally.

    WWE should be creating doubt as part of the story, not doubt in their ability to tell the story.
    Beautifully sums up everything. THIS is the problem ESPECIALLY for fans who know how we got to this point by a CM Punk walk out .
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  4. #104
    We the People's Champion The Champ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    Quote Originally Posted by DC The Champ View Post
    On the issue of doubt in a compelling story ...

    There is a difference between doubting that Luke Skywalker will redeem Darth Vader and defeat the Emperor, and doubting whether Revenge of the Sith would be a good movie. One is something that Lucas intentionally created to drive the emotion of the story for the viewer. The other is because Lucas burned us on Attack of the Clones and The Phantom Menace, and we didn't want to be burned again. One form of doubt is helpful and leads to a more emotionally captivating story; the other form of doubt is harmful because it keeps people from investing emotionally.

    Deej is talking about the latter form of doubt: a fundamental lack of faith in WWE to bring this storyline to a satisfactory conclusion. That is a direct result of WWE's incompetence displayed throughout this storyline. Even though we're finally getting the Triple H-Daniel Bryan match (just like Revenge of the Sith was a markedly better movie than Attack of the Clones), people are still hesitant to allow themselves to invest emotionally.

    WWE should be creating doubt as part of the story, not doubt in their ability to tell the story.
    In this particular instance, those two things are one in the same.

    What would be an unsatisfactory conclusion to the match? Triple H winning.

    Why are people afraid that Triple H will win? Because they think he abuses his power.

    What does WWE want people to think? That Triple H abuses his power.

    It's a new type of storyline that has become appropriate in the age of social media. I'm not saying they've handled it consistently well, but the way to get "smarks" to believe in the story is to make them think that it's going to continue to be mishandled.

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  5. #105
    Senior Member Vince Mcmahon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    Quote Originally Posted by The Champ View Post
    In this particular instance, those two things are one in the same.

    What would be an unsatisfactory conclusion to the match? Triple H winning.

    Why are people afraid that Triple H will win? Because they think he abuses his power.

    What does WWE want people to think? That Triple H abuses his power.

    It's a new type of storyline that has become appropriate in the age of social media. I'm not saying they've handled it consistently well, but the way to get "smarks" to believe in the story is to make them think that it's going to continue to be mishandled.
    This is partly true even though the build to what we have now may not have always been in the intent which brings it back full circle to the original post. I also think there is something that hasn't been brought up. The WWE's history of guys like Daniel Bryan REALLY being the face of the company has never truly happened. HHH pretty much spelling it out weeks ago also hits home.

    Bryan is even SMALLER than someone like Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels who had the same traditional issues, but was at the top some say because everyone jumped ship to WCW. In many ways I think the fans kind of also believe what HHH is saying, but love DB. It's a weird scenario if it makes any sense.

    Someone mentioned would DB be as over if he became champion and then began a run of being a fighting champion. The answer was no. Why?

    Hmmm....deep down some may believe HHH is saying the truth.
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  6. #106
    We the People's Champion The Champ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    It depends on how you look at it.

    I don't think Bryan will ever be the public face of the company in the same way that John Cena is. I don't think he'll be placed as the centerpiece in promotional materials or be called upon to do the same level of PR work.

    I do think that he can be booked as the top babyface within the product, and that's pretty much already happening now.

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  7. #107
    Senior Member Vince Mcmahon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    I totally agree with you actually, but I do believe someone like Reigns will be groomed as Cena's heir apparent down the line.
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  8. #108
    The Silver-Tongued Devil DC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    Wrong. There is a difference between doubt created by the fear of Triple H, COO of WWE, abusing his power and get a dirty win, and doubt created by the fear of Vince McMahon and Paul Levesque booking Daniel Bryan to lose in such a way that would damage him.

    Just because the people involved are the same, and just because the end result vis-a-vis the storyline is the same, does not mean that the fear underlying the doubt is the same or that it is equally helpful toward WWE's goals.

    While I feel that Bryan losing to Triple H in a dirty fashion would be an awful move, you can make a storyline of it and have it be effective. That is a storyline-driven doubt that helps advance WWE's entertainment goals. But the fear that isn't useful, the fear that damages WWE and gets fans to tune out, is the fear that it will be a repeat of the CM Punk feud: that Triple H will win the match and Bryan will never get the win back and will not regain the heat he had at the time.

    Again: creating doubt as to the outcome of the storyline is not the same as creating doubt in the company's ability to carry out the storyline. Just because the people involved and the storyline outcomes (for 'Mania) align does not mean the situations are the same or will lead to the same result. One outcome results in fans wanting to tune in, and one outcome results in fans wanting to tune out. Just because WWE is trying to force a parallel between the two doesn't mean they're succeeding in doing that, or that fans have any less cause to experience the harmful form of doubt.

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  9. #109
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    Nobody's tuning out en masse though, Darth.

    I get that a few people here have, but by and large, this is not causing people to tune out.

    If you had evidence to the contrary, you might have a case.

    Bender

    This will remain in my sig until The Rock gets his WWE World Heavyweight Championship rematch.

  10. #110
    Senior Member Vince Mcmahon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    I think eventually no matter what happens at Mania the company has to make sure that people start tuning out. I say the latest the company can lengthen this whole DB vs. Authority thing is SummerSlam. Even then it is asking a lot.

    Some will not remember or weren't around, but there was indeed doubt by many online about Austin being used correctly too. In fact, on an old RAW I believe when Pillman returned you can see a sign in the audience saying "Vince Don't Ruin Austin" meaning there was fear Austin would turn babyface and lose his heel edginess. I remember the first time he said "Give me a Hell Yeah" the net was really worried lol he was going to be turned into Diesel 2.0.

    For that Russo should be commended for not allowing Austin to not become too watered down from his heel persona. Although, getting kicked in the ratings would prevent you from screwing up your hot new star too.
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  11. #111
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    Vince, I think a major reason that they initially had other plans for Bryan at Mania was that they wanted to continue this thing past Mania, and perhaps even have it culminate at SummerSlam again.

    I'm not sure if that will happen anymore, though. I'm starting to think they're considering having Bryan pull Mania double duty. I'm still not sure if that's a good idea long term, but they seem to have no interest in actually booking Orton and Batista in a feud with one another.

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    SAWFT Matt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    Quote Originally Posted by The Champ View Post
    Nobody's tuning out en masse though, Darth.

    I get that a few people here have, but by and large, this is not causing people to tune out.

    If you had evidence to the contrary, you might have a case.
    Ratings have been pretty consistent with this last year, and last year had Rock around every other week.

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  13. #113
    Senior Member Vince Mcmahon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    Quote Originally Posted by The Champ View Post
    Vince, I think a major reason that they initially had other plans for Bryan at Mania was that they wanted to continue this thing past Mania, and perhaps even have it culminate at SummerSlam again.

    I'm not sure if that will happen anymore, though. I'm starting to think they're considering having Bryan pull Mania double duty. I'm still not sure if that's a good idea long term, but they seem to have no interest in actually booking Orton and Batista in a feud with one another.
    That's the only good thing out of this. No one knows for absolute sure when Bryan will get the title or if he will get a lengthy reign. In this scenario, it is exciting. However, this also helps create the doubt many have that Daniel will ever be booked as a serious champion anytime soon too.

    I think a huge problem was having Orton/Bryan feud right out the gate. It's funny about the immediacy everyone wants, but I think that has kind of ruined some of his title win story too since fans have already seen his title victory albeit the brevity of it all. I mean this is the same guy who lost in world title record time to Sheamus lol.

    This is why I'm saying this is badly booked. The focus is on HHH now with fans and rightfully so, but it is a misdirection from the bungling of DB's run for the belt. If Orton was avoiding DB post SummerSlam I could see how even DB not winning the Rumble and heading into Mania would be a big part of the storyline build to SummerSlam.

    I believe they ruined it with Orton/DB so many times already. Throwing in Batista isn't helping either as he was planned to be a face in all of this Authority angle. So if that was the case what would Daniel Bryan be doing from WM to SS with Batista being the face who also just happened to be the champion in a summer blockbuster?

    You see I really don't understand how the WWE couldn't see this problem long term with throwing in Batista. I can see him being the guy HHH got to get the belt back after Bryan toppled Orton at Mania, but either way Batista was getting cheered in that scenario. It really comes down to overplaying Batista's face appeal imo.
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  14. #114
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    Tune in/out was not the best phrase to use; what I meant was "reach a higher emotional investment" (i.e. "tune in" in the sense of being engaged in the product, and "tune out" in the sense of being less engaged in the product) more than physically ceasing to watch the program. It was imprecise use of language, and for that I apologize.

    People who are afraid of WWE carrying out this storyline with the same degree of ineptness as they've shown in the past will not engage in the product nearly as much because they do not want to experience the emotional trauma an unsatisfactory conclusion will bring. It's the same for wrestling as it is for anything else: people react to repeated painful situations in ways to limit the pain they experience.

    And what is the purpose of WWE programming? To encourage emotional investment, which encourages them to watch and buy. Actively seeking to disrupt this emotional involvement is a losing strategy. Trying to pretend that WWE is somehow intentionally fostering that type of reaction by their fans is ludicrous, because it ignores the root causes and the ultimate results of that kind of doubt.

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    SAWFT Matt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    Quote Originally Posted by DC The Champ View Post
    Tune in/out was not the best phrase to use; what I meant was "reach a higher emotional investment" (i.e. "tune in" in the sense of being engaged in the product, and "tune out" in the sense of being less engaged in the product) more than physically ceasing to watch the program.

    People who are afraid of WWE carrying out this storyline with the same degree of ineptness as they've shown in the past will not engage in the product nearly as much because they do not want to experience the emotional trauma an unsatisfactory conclusion will bring. It's the same for wrestling as it is for anything else: people react to repeated painful situations in ways to limit the pain they experience.

    And what is the purpose of WWE programming? To encourage emotional investment, which encourages them to watch and buy. Actively seeking to disrupt this emotional involvement is a losing strategy. Trying to pretend that WWE is somehow intentionally fostering that type of reaction by their fans is ludicrous, because it ignores the root causes and the ultimate results of that kind of doubt.
    I think the last few months of reactions here of all places shows that emotional investment has never been higher. Whether you think WWE meant to do it or not is irrelevant. The bottom line is they did it, and pretty much everybody here is going to watch Wrestlemania to see how it turns out, even the people who time and time again have proclaimed that the last time was one too many.

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  16. #116
    I BITE! iNCY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    That's rubbish, it goes along with the idea that any publicity is good publicity, which it is clearly not!
    Emotional investment is good when it's positive.
    I mean your brand of milk can have everyone talking because of a Lysteria outbreak.. That's not a good thing.

    There is a massive difference between "Heat" and "Hate"
    People can boo because they love to see someone lose, Eddie Gurrero in his heel phase and the Rock in his were masters of this.
    It is a completely different reaction to get the F**K off my TV and die reaction.

    This story is not heading anywhere I want to go.
    You can only have someone lose so many times before anyone believes that he is capable of winning anything.
    This is 100% the reason that Jericho isn't considered on the Rock's level.

  17. #117
    We the People's Champion The Champ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    Quote Originally Posted by iNCY View Post
    That's rubbish, it goes along with the idea that any publicity is good publicity, which it is clearly not!
    Emotional investment is good when it's positive.
    I mean your brand of milk can have everyone talking because of a Lysteria outbreak.. That's not a good thing.

    There is a massive difference between "Heat" and "Hate"
    People can boo because they love to see someone lose, Eddie Gurrero in his heel phase and the Rock in his were masters of this.
    It is a completely different reaction to get the F**K off my TV and die reaction.

    This story is not heading anywhere I want to go.
    You can only have someone lose so many times before anyone believes that he is capable of winning anything.
    This is 100% the reason that Jericho isn't considered on the Rock's level.
    Oh good lord, please don't tell me you're arguing that Triple H is getting X-Pac Heat.

    I think X-Pac Heat a bogus concept to begin with, but even if it did exist, we're talking about one of the great heels of all time here.

    Bender

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    SAWFT Matt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    Quote Originally Posted by iNCY View Post
    That's rubbish, it goes along with the idea that any publicity is good publicity, which it is clearly not!

    There is a massive difference between "Heat" and "Hate"
    People can boo because they love to see someone lose, Eddie Gurrero in his heel phase and the Rock in his were masters of this.
    It is a completely different reaction to get the F**K off my TB and die reaction.

    This story is not heading anywhere I want to go.
    You can only have someone lose so many times before anyone believes that he is capable of winning anything.
    This is 100% the reason that Jericho isn't considered on the Rock's level.
    No, there really isn't. There's a difference between heat and indifference. Very few people are indifferent to Triple H. WWE is capitalizing on that. They're hoping you'll watch the show for a variety of reasons, whether it's to see him get what's coming, or that you think he won't do the job. They don't care why you're watching the show. They just want you to watch it.

    Look at the crowd reactions to Bryan. Does it look like people believe he isn't capable of winning anything? THIS ENTIRE STORY has been about how Bryan is the better man and the Authority just refuses to accept that.

    And the reason Chris Jericho isn't considered on the Rock's level is because he isn't on the Rock's level. The Rock is a transcendent superstar.

    "I like cake."

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  19. #119
    Moderator Oncall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    Serious question here.

    When did losing a match and getting screwed over become the same bloody thing?

    I'd see the POV iNCY is talking about if there'd been no interference in Bryans title matches but they've been full of it. I think it's even been mentioned on commentary once or twie how Bryan would be WWE Champion right now if not for the authority and their interfering.





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  20. #120
    Senior Member Vince Mcmahon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    Quote Originally Posted by iNCY View Post
    You can only have someone lose so many times before anyone believes that he is capable of winning anything.
    Ryback does not like this sentence
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    Senior Member Darkmania's Avatar
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    I think I feel reserved about it because we only have CM Punk to thank for it, not the WWE brain trust who thought sticking their hottest act in a midcard match against Sheamus at their biggest PPV of the year made sense.

    If Punk had stayed, that would have been two huge errors in my opinion; the overestimating of Batista and sticking Bryan in a mid card match.


    Thanks JV for the artwork!!

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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    IT'S ON, and with bigger stakes than ever.

    Considering the fact that if Bryan was to be in two matches in one night, I would put this match with Triple H on at the beginning of the show.

    "Every man's heart one day beats its final beat, his lungs breath their final breath. And if what that man did in his life, makes the blood pulse through the body of others, and makes them believe deeper in something larger than life, then his essence, his spirit, will be immortalized by the storytellers, by the loyalty, by the memory, of those who honor him and make whatever the man did live forever."

  23. #123
    Senior Member Vince Mcmahon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - It's a THING!

    That was fantastic tonight in making the match.
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Not Yet Official But Definitely Happening

    Quote Originally Posted by CM Punk'd View Post
    IT'S ON, and with bigger stakes than ever.

    Considering the fact that if Bryan was to be in two matches in one night, I would put this match with Triple H on at the beginning of the show.
    I wouldn't and it really wouldn't be the Authority thing to do.

    I'd put it 2nd to last , right before the triple threat main event. Bryan pins/makes HHH tap and within 45 seconds Batista's music hits followed by Ortons. Bryan is exhausted , the Authority have once again made his climb to win the title nearly impossible... OMG CAN BRYAN DO IT?!
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    Senior Member Darkmania's Avatar
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    Default Re: Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - It's a THING!

    So again, Bryan goes from a mid card wrestlemania match to two huge matches on the same night? I have to admit, I just don't get the WWE sometimes.


    Thanks JV for the artwork!!

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