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Thread: BRAND SPLIT

  1. #1

    Default BRAND SPLIT

    Hi all.

    I have been thinking about this for a couple of weeks, and it is about the brand split. I watch both RAW and Smackdown. Both shows have their own General Manager and Ring Announcer. Keep Cole and Lawler on RAW as commentators. JBL and Josh Matthews on Smackdown. Have a draft and split the roster evenly and go back to having two separate shows with their own identities like we had in 2002/2003. I would like to see sets that are unique to each show.

    I want to see storylines that are specific to each brand. We have Money in the Bank winners competing against each other on the same show. To me this combined roster is has run its course. Some of the storylines are not as effective to me when they are presented on two shows. I think you can see too much of some people on TV. Separate shows also give more meaning to the titles associated with each brand.

    Even though I watch Smackdown, the show has around 45 minutes of real content, the rest is commercials and recaps of RAW. Smackdown used to have more real content to it; that was when there was a dedicated roster to the show.
    Smackdown has had low attendance numbers, and has had to tarp off sections of arenas to conceal the fact that the arena was not full. I believe if the WWE were to restore Smackdown to a separate brand, and create storylines exclusive to the brand attendance might go-up. I would hate to go to a Smackdown taping only to see 45 minutes of action.

    I am also in favor of RAW returning to a 2 hour show, 3 hours is a bit much some weeks; especially when we still have 5 to 15 minute over runs. When the show used to be 2 hours I always felt like I wanted more; however, it made me want to tune into the next week’s episode even more.

    I believe with the current roster, and the talent in NXT, the WWE can create 2 solid rosters. 2 solid rosters with definitive storylines could raise ratings and attendance.

    I have no problem with combined PPV’s and at times during the year where we have talent crossing over to another show. In those cases the crossover means something and is special in nature.

    I want to see Smackdown aired live; I really think the show is much better when aired live, and the arena is always full. Taped shows lead to spoilers and a lack of interest; especially in this digital age where the results can be posted the same night.

    Basically I want to see each show get to the point where they are competing against each other. To a point where you have to watch each show to see how they upstage the other brand.

    Just my thoughts; what are yours.

  2. #2
    OBEY THE NARRATIVE Djm's Avatar
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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    Here's the thing about all of the things you just said.

    WWE tried them all already.

    YOU WILL COMPLY.

  3. #3
    American Ninja ShinobiMusashi's Avatar
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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    I'm currently in the process of examining the original brand split down south in the Match Review thread of the History forums.

    I think it was a huge clusterfuck that was confusing. The problem is this:

    Have a draft and split the roster evenly and go back to having two separate shows with their own identities like we had in 2002/2003. I would like to see sets that are unique to each show.
    From what I've seen up to May of 2002, neither show has it's own identity. It all just seems like one big WWE mess, with titles spread out and losing value, wrestlers and angles appearing on both shows and nullifying the entire idea of a split to begin with etc. I prefer the system they have now. You can relegate certain guys to certain shows without confusing your audience with a big goofy draft & split. For my money the only way they should have went down with a split is with the WCW brand and trademarks, belts, alumni etc. The reason being is that WCW has a rich history, Smackdown was only a show for what? 28 months? That's what your calling this second brand? Raw at least has been around for almost a decade, so it had a recognizable identity. It's far too late for it now, just as it was in April of 2002. Either fucking split or don't, I hate this quasi-split format they have in these 2002 tapes. I think the setup now is the way to keep it.

    The Death of ECW, & American Bad Ass Undertaker were the reason why I quit watching wrestling in 2000-2001, The Brand Split was the reason why I never started watching again until after Mania 28. It was just confusing and required too much research.

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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    I prefer the brand split, it would make the WHC look better. Give certain wrestlers more TV time and it was kinda fun seeing feuds that were only happening on one show. It was fun watching guys switch brands it would make certain characters feel fresh. Now with everyone on one show its seems almost pointless for having two gms and two main belts.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Jack Nichols's Avatar
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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    The original brand split severely turned me off wrestling for a long time.

    I do agree that WWE has too much talent to know what to do with.

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    Eater of Worlds Vance Landow's Avatar
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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    Wasn't paying attention when the original brand split happened, but I was fine with it in mid-Ruthless Aggression when I started watching again, although I prefer there not being a split. It would be perfect if Smackdown was actually worth watching.

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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    Its a double edge sword. Do the brand split and you split your audience. Don't and you have muddled storylines. There's no clean way to do it unless you scale down your roster and keep it 2 shows, but you don't want to do that cause you kick a lot of good talent over to TNA. Long story short, you're screwed.
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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    The brand split is confusing? How? It's 2 shows with 2 rosters and 2 sets of belts. It isn't rocket science. The issue was when they starting breaking it down instead of just dropping it completely. They just did a poor job of it. If you want a guy on both shows, say why he's so special that he needs to be there. Otherwise make a home show for each wrestler and keep them there. Really the brand split needed more effort put into it. If they were running out of top guys they should have made more. Or dropped it fully. Merge titles or add a list of titles by rank officially.

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    MO to the G to the UNS! BadNewsFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    I hated the Brand Split ever since around 2003 or so...it sucked the life out of pro wrestling for me in alot ways for a long time.

    The problem is that wrestling at its best is fun and unpredictable action, but with the roster split it became the same guys fighting all the time with no real surprises to be had.

    I still don't like the idea of two world champions in the same federation, but at least there is a clear devide between the two titles now and one is definitely seen as the REAL top prize, instead of the company trying to make both titles seem equal the way they did in the Brand Split days.

    The best years the WWE ever had IMO came with a single roster, from the Hogan days to the Attitude Era, and even now.

    I think this past year has been pretty good for the most part, but how great would it have been if there was a brand split now.

    What if Cesaro and Bryan couldn't fight because they were on seperate shows?

    Nah, I like it how it is now, and there is still plenty of time with two shows, to fully showcase all of the talent that exists in the WWE now, its just up to the writers to do it, and I think they've actually done pretty good this year at doing just that.

    So, R.I.P. Brand Split, you will not be missed...by me at least.


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    OBEY THE NARRATIVE Djm's Avatar
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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Repperton View Post
    The brand split is confusing? How? It's 2 shows with 2 rosters and 2 sets of belts. It isn't rocket science. The issue was when they starting breaking it down instead of just dropping it completely. They just did a poor job of it. If you want a guy on both shows, say why he's so special that he needs to be there. Otherwise make a home show for each wrestler and keep them there. Really the brand split needed more effort put into it. If they were running out of top guys they should have made more. Or dropped it fully. Merge titles or add a list of titles by rank officially.
    It was apparently too confusing for WWE Creative, and too confusing for most fans. Of course, most fans won't under any circumstances ever watch Smackdown, so that was already a strike against the idea.

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    COYG Todd's Avatar
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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    SmackDown actually did bigger audience numbers than Raw at times pre-brand split, the problem was that as the years rolled on, you realised that virtually everything of huge significance happened on Raw. It was a flawed concept because one show was live, and in the flagship Monday night slot, and the other show was neither of those things. No matter how much he thought he wanted to, McMahon could never bring himself to prioritise it equally with Raw, and over the years it told.

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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Djm View Post
    It was apparently too confusing for WWE Creative, and too confusing for most fans. Of course, most fans won't under any circumstances ever watch Smackdown, so that was already a strike against the idea.
    At first it was all fine. 2 shows on 2 nights with a different roster and a different feel. The big issues I think happened when they tried to do RAW, SD!, and ECW as 3 separate deals. Also Heyman not being allowed to continue to write for SD! was another problem. The Brand Split did what it needed to which was make new stars. The Smackdown Six comes to mind immediately. Also, where would Brock Lesnar be if he would have had to job to HHH for years as he was headlining? Just because it hasn't worked for a while doesn't mean it never worked.

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    OBEY THE NARRATIVE Djm's Avatar
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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Repperton View Post
    At first it was all fine. 2 shows on 2 nights with a different roster and a different feel. The big issues I think happened when they tried to do RAW, SD!, and ECW as 3 separate deals. Also Heyman not being allowed to continue to write for SD! was another problem. The Brand Split did what it needed to which was make new stars. The Smackdown Six comes to mind immediately. Also, where would Brock Lesnar be if he would have had to job to HHH for years as he was headlining? Just because it hasn't worked for a while doesn't mean it never worked.
    I don't disagree with you, but Paul Heyman isn't on the writing staff anymore, and in recent years, WWE has shown minimal ability to write one complete TV program, much less the second one on Fridays that everyone knows they don't put nearly as much effort into.

    Just because they did it once for a little while doesn't mean they're afforded a free pass.

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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    That's why I've said previously that it could work because it has before. It certainly hasn't worked for some time though and no, creative can't write one full episode of RAW that's great unless 2 mangers on the show are doing it for them like from a couple weeks ago. Also, WWE doesn't have the talent it did when the roster split first hit. things are fine right now for just one roster but there may come another time, like when TNA goes under or WWE buys out ROH that a brand split might need to be looked at again.

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    American Ninja ShinobiMusashi's Avatar
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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Repperton View Post
    The brand split is confusing? How? It's 2 shows with 2 rosters and 2 sets of belts. It isn't rocket science.
    That's not the case here in these 2002 Raw/Smackdown tapes I'm watching at the moment. I'm only in mid-may, but so far there have been a lot of guys appearing on both shows, one title is open to both brands(undisputed belt), but the rest aren't? Ok. Which is exclusive to which brand? It was hard to figure out at first glance for someone on the outside looking in( I've been watching the whole set, and right now I can't tell you which brand Diesel 3.0(ABA) or Chris Jericho are exclusive to.). Someone who wasn't eating, sleeping, and shitting WWE at the time. Then there is the way both brands share PPV's, that throws it all off as a big mess, especially when they switch out all of those different commentary teams. My problem with it is that it isn't really a split at all(other than a couple of guys being exclusive, different commentators), but it's presented as one.

    I've reached the point at these 2002 tapes where they are forced to change their name to WWE just out of nowhere, without any real notice, almost overnight on the May 6th episode. This added to the confusion. I dropped out in 2000/2001, when I came back to check it out at times through 2002 I was like, "What the fuck is this shit?! What the hell is going on?" It was a convoluted mess imo.

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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    Once Brock gets the gold, shit gets divided real quick.

    I don't know how the WWE change was confusing. It's not like anyone tuned in and didn't know what they were watching because the last letter was switched. Come on. IS THIS STILL WRESTLING WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON OH FUCK!

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    OBEY THE NARRATIVE Djm's Avatar
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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Repperton View Post
    Once Brock gets the gold, shit gets divided real quick.

    I don't know how the WWE change was confusing. It's not like anyone tuned in and didn't know what they were watching because the last letter was switched. Come on. IS THIS STILL WRESTLING WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON OH FUCK!
    Apparently, there were people doing that.

    I usually equate that with the same people that think that the original Ultimate Warrior died.

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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    Nothing's impossible.

  19. #19
    American Ninja ShinobiMusashi's Avatar
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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Repperton View Post
    Once Brock gets the gold, shit gets divided real quick.

    I don't know how the WWE change was confusing. It's not like anyone tuned in and didn't know what they were watching because the last letter was switched. Come on. IS THIS STILL WRESTLING WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON OH FUCK!
    I don't know man, you grow up with the WWF and then tune in and hear it being called something else without any real explanation, it was a bit of a turn off. It added to the clusterfuck that was the brand split.

    Once they brought in the WCW belt and Eric Bischoff was when it really got confusing... Isn't WCW dead?!?! What a mess.

    I'm looking at that roster(Hogan, Rock, Austin, NWO) and I'm looking at those sagging ratings and I get the impression that I wasn't alone in this mindset. Something else to consider was the fact that Raw wasn't even coming on USA anymore, it was on some bullshit TNN network. Way too many changes all at once. The big split brand system was a good idea, but it was poorly executed to say the least. I guess confusing was perhaps a poor choice of words, let me put it this way: It was all good for the people who were hanging on to every hour of WWE programming, but for people like me that were out of the loop, they sure made it easy to stay that way.

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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    Quote Originally Posted by ShinobiMusashi View Post
    I don't know man, you grow up with the WWF and then tune in and hear it being called something else without any real explanation, it was a bit of a turn off. It added to the clusterfuck that was the brand split.

    Once they brought in the WCW belt and Eric Bischoff was when it really got confusing... Isn't WCW dead?!?! What a mess.

    I'm looking at that roster(Hogan, Rock, Austin, NWO) and I'm looking at those sagging ratings and I get the impression that I wasn't alone in this mindset. Something else to consider was the fact that Raw wasn't even coming on USA anymore, it was on some bullshit TNN network. Way too many changes all at once. The big split brand system was a good idea, but it was poorly executed to say the least. I guess confusing was perhaps a poor choice of words, let me put it this way: It was all good for the people who were hanging on to every hour of WWE programming, but for people like me that were out of the loop, they sure made it easy to stay that way.
    That's what you get for being out of the loop. I watched every RAW back then at least and never had an issue.

    If I ever thought I could stop watching wrestling for a month and then tune in and know exactly what was going on from the opening shot, I'd quit watching. It's supposed to be unpredictable. And yes there were some changes but if you miss a huge block of the programming it's on you to catch up not the show to do a recap of the last 6 months every episode.

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    MO to the G to the UNS! BadNewsFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    No doubt in my mind that all the changes (company name, wcw merge, channel, brand split) all help bring the ratings down from the big numbers of the Attitude Era.

    That much change and a sever drop in overall quality in programing not to mention the sever lack of Austin and Rock really contributed to the decline in popularity of the E.


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    MO to the G to the UNS! BadNewsFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    Also if you look at from a casual fan's perspective, you go from getting all the characters you know and love on the same show every week to half on one show and half on another.

    That's a big change and not one that really works for the non die hard fan.

    I kept watching because I'm a lifer, but I knew a lot of folks who stopped watching back then and never really came back.


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  23. #23

    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    What I find the worst are the recaps on every show... Superstars, main event, smack down and god knows what else just recaps like people will watch these shows to try and figure out what happened on raw. They need to cool it down and that would be the first step or more quality time wrestling.

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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    Quote Originally Posted by BadNewsFan View Post
    The problem is that wrestling at its best is fun and unpredictable action, but with the roster split it became the same guys fighting all the time with no real surprises to be had.
    If you hated seeing the same guys fighting each other all the time than you must have hated the Attitude Era! Christ, every PPV had the same card.

    I have always liked the brand split. My problem with it was that they didn't split it enough. Each show needed to be completely separate from each other. Different rosters, different writers, no crossover what so ever. Make it feel as if they were actually two different companies and bring back that WWF/WCW Monday Night Wars feel to it. Every now and again you could still have a guy jump ship to the other brand but make it somewhat rare and play it up big that your GM signed someone away from the competition. Remember when Big Show arrived in the E? That was shocking and completely unexpected. Bring that kind of an atmosphere back.

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    MO to the G to the UNS! BadNewsFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: BRAND SPLIT

    Quote Originally Posted by merle View Post
    If you hated seeing the same guys fighting each other all the time than you must have hated the Attitude Era! Christ, every PPV had the same card.
    I strongly disagree, in fact I thought the AE PPVs were constistanly good with the exception of Mania's 15 and 16, all of the PPVs were action packed and full of exciting twists and turns.

    The Brand Split era kept the exciting PPVs going when they still featured the entire roster in the early days of it, but that ende once the Brand specific PPVs started IMO.

    I just never liked anything about splitting up the roster.


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