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Thread: Who was the worst US president.

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    The Devil's Eyes BigRed's Avatar

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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    Worthy bump, I think because a new poll just came out where respondents said Obama is the worst president since WWII. For one, it's not surprising because a sitting president is gonna get hit harder; I'd expect that sentiment to change over time. Secondly, it's absolutely wrong IMO.

    33% of people said Obama was the worst, 28% said W., and 13% said Nixon. Then followed by Carter, Johnson and Clinton at 3% respectively, Ford and Bush Sr. at 2% respectively and Eisenhower at 1%. Kennedy didn't even get that much.

    President Lyndon B. Johnson is the worst as far as I'm concerned. Over 60 thousand dead American soldiers, millions of dead civilians, Agent Orange and just everything. That's just the war side in Vietnam. Much less the "Great Society" nonsense.

    Then I'd say W. is the second worst for similar reasons as above, but just on a smaller scale with Iraq.

    And there is where I'd place Obama. Third after those two.

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    They still play defense? The Real LT's Avatar

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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    Dosen't change my opinion much. As bad as Bush and Obama were/are, they are both absolute gems compared to the likes of James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Franklin Pierce and Warren G. Harding.

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    The Devil's Eyes BigRed's Avatar

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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Real LT View Post
    Dosen't change my opinion much. As bad as Bush and Obama were/are, they are both absolute gems compared to the likes of James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Franklin Pierce and Warren G. Harding.
    This one is talking specifically since 1945, though.

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    They still play defense? The Real LT's Avatar

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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRed View Post
    This one is talking specifically since 1945, though.
    In that case I would have to say....

    1. Lyndon Johnson
    2. Jimmy Carter
    3. Richard Nixon
    4. George W. Bush
    5. Barack Obama

  5. #55
    but secretly C to the C Engel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    I find it interesting how deep the recency effect is linked to these polls and comments. Bush Sr, far worse than Jr. Clinton was nearly impeached and people consider him far better than Obama. Reagan is untouched for Iran-Contraband Scandal that would drive us into a far worse conflict than Vietnam. people say Obama should be impeached for drone use but Eisenhower authorized the overthrowing of several governments without letting the American people know.


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  6. #56
    Slushy
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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    People can hate on Bush Jr. and Obama all they want, but the fact of the matter is not only did Jimmy Carter stand by and watch our ally, the Shah of Iran, get overthrown by fundamentalist crazies, he botched the Iranian hostage crisis that sprang from the overthrow in almost every way possible. It's also worth noting that the Soviets were inspired by Carter's naiveté to invade Afghanistan on his watch. In other words, both the war on terror and Iran's quest for nuclear weapons can be directly traced back to his presidency! Then on the domestic front, Carter was famous for an economy that was so dismal, it diminished people's faith in the American dream. To top off his incompetence, Carter gave away the Panama Canal!


    U.S. Presidential Election of 1980

    And that's why Jimmy Carter is the worst U.S. President of all time!

  7. #57
    Werehunter
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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    My issue with President Obama being one of the worst has nothing to do with his scandals or drone use. It's the fact I don't think he's a very good leader period. From the start it has been clear that the President is not good or is unwilling to make the type of relationships needed to do such a job. It's actually been stated by former members of the administration that he actually hates trying to do so. And this isn't just with Republicans but with Congressional Democrats as well. Instead of trying to convince Congress of something, he goes straight to the people and try to get public support to force Congress to do what he wants or enough support that he can do as he wishes without Congress. While all Presidents do this to some extent, he, in my opinion, does it far more for he's more comfortable giving speeches then having small discussions with other politicians.

    People say that Republicans have been trying to stop him from day one, which is true as much as any party tries to weaken the other party's leadership, but they ignore or forget that during President Obama's first meeting with Congressional Republicans after taking office had him basically telling them to sit down and shut up for he won and they better far in line. That's an example of anything but the leadership needed for running the Executive Branch. As I've said before, I think President Obama was good as a Senator and working in a deliberative body, such a setting plays to his strengths far more than the executive Branch.

    While I won't put him as the worst, at least not yet, he's certainly near the bottom of any list I'd make. I also think that if the press in general wasn't as kind to him, public opinion of him would be even worse. Two things that I've read stand out about the press treatment of President Obama. One of the main people of his re-election campaign has publicly stated that of all the interviews President Obama did, Jon Stewart gave him the toughest interview. While I like Jon Stewart, this should not be the case. The second was a study I read about of a comparison of news stories on President Obama and President Bush. When almost identical situations occur, the press, on average, would be far more favorable in their coverage for President Obama. An example would be a jobs report; their could be the same changes from one month to next, say a small increase in jobs, while with President Obama the story would be how are improve but with President Bush it would focus on why their wasn't a larger increase. While I know that's not the case with all press coverage, this study was looking at the major news organizations and how on average they reported things.

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    They still play defense? The Real LT's Avatar

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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    Yeah, Obama has been softballed by the media more than any President since Kennedy. It's just nauseating how easy the press has been on him. Hell even Clinton was given a tougher time.

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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    FDR and Lincoln were two of the greatest Presidents, nowhere near the worst.

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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    Lincoln was a horrible president. No other president pissed America off so much that half of the states decided to form their own country.


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  11. #61
    Werehunter
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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    Plus if people hate the way President Bush and Obama side stepped the Constitution, then they really would have hated President Lincoln. I think if the Civil War had lasted past his terms in office, he would likely be further down on the list. But since people credit him with winning the Civil War and freeing the slaves, they overlook all the other things he did.

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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    In my opinion, Lincoln should have let the union split. The North and South were founded separately and only loosely came together to fight off the British. We never united as ONE nation though. The divides that Lincoln fought to unite still exist to this day. If the North still want a socialist style government while the South wants a reactionary small government why the fuck are we one nation half assing between two ideals that just makes both parties suffer. If the South seceded in splitting, the North would have it's democratic government and their voters would be happy and the South would have their republican government and their voters would be happy. In all honesty if Lincoln did not end slavery he would he considered a monster. Moving from CT to NC showed me how different the two United States are, and really, I am not sure why we stay united if we are so divided. Right now no one wins but centralists using politics for personal gain and lobbyists.

    Really historically is there any reason for us to have stayed as a united nation?


    Flowers gathered in the morning,
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  13. #63
    Werehunter
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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    Really historically is there any reason for us to have stayed as a united nation?
    The best reason I've heard, is that it prevented what likely would have been hundreds of years of war between what would have been the two nations. Much like how Europe has had so many years between the countries over the past hundreds of years. Considering the time, it was likely a very real fear for people to have. By keeping it one nation greatly limits the chances of such things. Especially when the government changes so much with each election. With the current system, people are far more likely to wait till the next election to change things than they are to call to raise arms and split from the country. Granted there are always some who do, but those are never taken seriously by most people even those who support the reasoning behind it.

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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    Civil War only continued because Lincoln refused the South the government they wanted. If we let the South have the forts in their lands I do not think we would have aggression. Everyone said that we would not have a civil war, but the second the North had to give up resources to the Southern states we can marching down and initiated fucking slash and burn warfare. What happened was far worse than 100 years of petty territory disputes. Instead we had a million dead, a destroyed economy and created a government where money is speech were the rich refight the civil war every two years.


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    There are no limits. Bruce Lee's Avatar

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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    Worst president was Harry Truman. Dropping those bombs and killing countless innocents. Lincoln freed the slaves, anyone calling him the worst is just being silly.

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    The Wrestle-O-Pedia TheMaskedOtter's Avatar

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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    Quote Originally Posted by BringThePain513 View Post
    Hoover is by far the worst. He's the one that brought us in the Great Depression in the first place
    And then FDR and his progressive "New Deal" kept it going for 9 more years. World War II is what brought up out of the Great Depression. Few people seem to bring up that fact when lionizing Roosevelt. Between the "New Deal", allegedly letting Japan bomb Pearl Harbor to convince an isolationist US population to get involved in World War II and the ego of the man serving 4 terms under the belief the country would fall apart without him, I have no idea why he is always ranked so high.

    If you don't know about Andrew Johnson you should read about him. During the Civil War he was the only Southern senator (from TN) who didn't leave and continued to hold is seat. He became wildly popular in the North because of that which led to him becoming Lincoln's VP. When he became President he kept on most of Lincoln's cabinet who plotted against him because they felt the Confederacy should be punished. His impeachment was a joke.

    I think you guys are being way to harsh on Truman. Yes he dropped the bomb and many were killed, but it did end the war and most likely saved thousands of lives both civilian and military. I know this is a hypothetical question, but do you think the Germans or the Japanese wouldn't have used the bomb if they had it in their possession? Each side in that war killed hundreds of civilians so to lay so much blame on Truman for two events is again, harsh.

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    They still play defense? The Real LT's Avatar

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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    Yeah the Truman hate is based mostly on revisionist thinking and Monday morning quarterbacking. Had the Germans or Japanese had the bomb they ABSOLUTELY would have deployed it and anyone who thinks otherwise is a damn fool.

    Truman made the decision based on the information he had at the time, and on the STAGGERING casualty reports that were coming back from invading the Pacific Islands. I think he absolutely made the right call. In times of war the live of your citizens ALWAYS come before the lives of your enemies' citizens.

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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Real LT View Post
    Yeah the Truman hate is based mostly on revisionist thinking and Monday morning quarterbacking. Had the Germans or Japanese had the bomb they ABSOLUTELY would have deployed it and anyone who thinks otherwise is a damn fool.

    Truman made the decision based on the information he had at the time, and on the STAGGERING casualty reports that were coming back from invading the Pacific Islands. I think he absolutely made the right call. In times of war the live of your citizens ALWAYS come before the lives of your enemies' citizens.
    And we called the Germans and Japanese pure evil at the time, which is exactly the right word to describe using the A-bomb. And there's no revisionist history here. We never had to drop the bombs. FDR never did. It was a shortcut, nothing more. Truman made the wrong decision. I've seen the footage of dead children and charred remains by the thousands. And these are the ones who weren't even fighting the war. If you think that was the right call, then I pity your POV.

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    The Devil's Eyes BigRed's Avatar

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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    Interesting discussion, guys. Agreed with White Heat on Truman. There is no justification for dropping two nukes on two cities. However, I diverge with him on Lincoln. Lincoln's trampling of the Constitution and jailing of reporters in the Northern states, among other acts, is not justifiable to me.

    Also, a bit of a segue to the general idea of the "cult of the presidency" since we're discussing the "worst", but as one of my favorite economists and historians, Robert Higgs, said, this has basically been the standard by which every president operates since (and before, just not spoken out in this way):



    Former French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, is facing a corruption probe, spent 15 hours in police custody and could face 10 years in prison. Does anyone think that could ever happen in the United States? That's a sad thing to me.

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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    Quote Originally Posted by White Heat View Post
    And we called the Germans and Japanese pure evil at the time, which is exactly the right word to describe using the A-bomb. And there's no revisionist history here. We never had to drop the bombs. FDR never did. It was a shortcut, nothing more. Truman made the wrong decision. I've seen the footage of dead children and charred remains by the thousands. And these are the ones who weren't even fighting the war. If you think that was the right call, then I pity your POV.
    As opposed to the bodies of our serviceman piled up by the tens of thousands? Because that's what invading Japan would have entailed. Hell we lost that many invading the surrounding islands.

    Once again in war the lives of your citizens should come before those of your enemies. War is hell and the REAL unforgivable sin is prolonging it any more than you have to.

  21. #71
    Slushy
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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    And we called the Germans and Japanese pure evil at the time, which is exactly the right word to describe using the A-bomb. And there's no revisionist history here. We never had to drop the bombs. FDR never did. It was a shortcut, nothing more. Truman made the wrong decision. I've seen the footage of dead children and charred remains by the thousands. And these are the ones who weren't even fighting the war. If you think that was the right call, then I pity your POV.
    That kind of thinking is why Vietnam turned out the way it did.

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    The Wrestle-O-Pedia TheMaskedOtter's Avatar

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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slushy View Post
    That kind of thinking is why Vietnam turned out the way it did.
    I would add that is why Iraq and Afghanistan turned out the way they have as well.

  23. #73
    LavenderHaze
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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    Obama is THE WORST.. I heard that someone in congress is trying to get him impeached...

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    #throwback mikec's Avatar

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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    OMG did you see that on Facebook too?!? Yay praise god. Not his Muslim terrorist god, my god.

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    Senior Member Mad Dog Smith's Avatar

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    Default Re: Who was the worst US president.

    I'm know that we're probably talking about straight up results.

    But I'm kind of surprised nobody mentioned the slave-owner presidents. I mean, not one person?

    Come on, guys! They owned people. haha. I know that they're mostly products of their time, but still, you don't watch a dude grow up and still think it's okay to own him. Haha.

    Alright seriously? GW Bush was bad in recent memory. I wouldn't know much past Carter. So for me it's the GWB.

    The financial Crisis, sadly, is not well remembered. Even though it wasn't that long ago. Not even ten years. It really hits me hard in the gut when people seriously think we're worse off today then we were then. Those were seriously scary times that I hope we'll never have to live through again.

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