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Thread: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

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    Ambassador of Asgard thedude's Avatar
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    Default The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    So it looks like this is going to be the third year in a row where Dolph Ziggler goes through the same cycle.

    Back in 2010 Ziggler won the Intercontinental Championship in June and got pushed heavily throughout the second half of the year culminating in a World Heavyweight Championship match at Royal Rumble 2011 against Edge...only to be forgotten about in the spring where he ends up losing to Snooki at Wrestlemania 27.

    Fast forward a few months to May/June 2011 and Ziggler wins the United States Championship. Once again he gets a big push up the card eventually earning a WWE Championship match at Royal Rumble 2012 against CM Punk only to once again have nothing to do at Wrestlemania where he ends up in the clusterfuck multiman tag match last year.

    Last year he wins MitB in July and gets his biggest push yet where he goes on to defeat Cena in the main event of TLC and lasts nearly an hour in the Royal Rumble match. It looked like he was finally going to have a real match at this years Wrestlemania against Jericho but ever since the Royal Rumble he has lost seemingly every match he's had and has no storyline going forward.

    Now my question is does anyone think Ziggler will finally hit the main event this year and stay? Or will he continue to get his yearly push in the summer and fall only to fall back to mid card purgatory in the winter months? I know he still has his MitB briefcase but his current booking is bordering on how Swagger was booked when he won it and that was a disaster.

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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    There's simply no excuse for what they've done this time. It's one of the worst pieces of booking I can recall. They've basically ruined any chance of Dolph really getting to be a legitimate main eventer, and this time they've also killed the credibility of AJ and Big E.

    This idea that they have to constantly cut people down to size because guys like Lesnar were given too much too fast and bailed is a complete disaster. They've squandered the chance to make so many guys big deals because of it.

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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by hr View Post
    There's simply no excuse for what they've done this time. It's one of the worst pieces of booking I can recall. They've basically ruined any chance of Dolph really getting to be a legitimate main eventer, and this time they've also killed the credibility of AJ and Big E.

    This idea that they have to constantly cut people down to size because guys like Lesnar were given too much too fast and bailed is a complete disaster. They've squandered the chance to make so many guys big deals because of it.
    They made guys like Sheamus and Alberto multi-time world champions in their first year, so I'm not sure that's the problem.

    The whole WM undercard this year is a clusterfuck for reasons I can't comprehend.


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    #Heel Zeki's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    What they have done to Dolph is pathetic. Why do they make him look SO weak? Why? I just do not understand it.

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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    I've said it before, I'll say it again. It all goes back to No Way Out 2012. When they cheered for Ziggler instead of Sheamus, that was unacceptable for them. That's when everything started to change. He won Money in the Bank, sure, but he lost and lost and LOST. WWE wanted to make it absolutely clear that Ziggler is worthless, beneath Sheamus, and you should not cheer for him.

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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Crippler View Post
    I've said it before, I'll say it again. It all goes back to No Way Out 2012. When they cheered for Ziggler instead of Sheamus, that was unacceptable for them. That's when everything started to change. He won Money in the Bank, sure, but he lost and lost and LOST. WWE wanted to make it absolutely clear that Ziggler is worthless, beneath Sheamus, and you should not cheer for him.
    Why would they do that, though? It doesn't make any sense. Somebody gets over on their own, and the WWE kills it. Don't they want more wrestlers to get over. Money!!

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    #Heel Zeki's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by King_Steve View Post
    Why would they do that, though? It doesn't make any sense. Somebody gets over on their own, and the WWE kills it. Don't they want more wrestlers to get over. Money!!
    Only if they (the WWE) are the ones who made it happen. See Zack Ryder for example.

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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeki View Post
    Only if they (the WWE) are the ones who made it happen. See Zack Ryder for example.
    "I knew it, the fans knew it, he knew it, but nobody else wanted to accept it. Because it wasn't supposed to happen that way."

    That was Paul Heyman on CM Punk in ECW. It fits here too.

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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by The Main Event View Post
    "I knew it, the fans knew it, he knew it, but nobody else wanted to accept it. Because it wasn't supposed to happen that way."

    That was Paul Heyman on CM Punk in ECW. It fits here too.
    I forgot about Punk. Very good example!

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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Crippler View Post
    I've said it before, I'll say it again. It all goes back to No Way Out 2012. When they cheered for Ziggler instead of Sheamus, that was unacceptable for them. That's when everything started to change. He won Money in the Bank, sure, but he lost and lost and LOST. WWE wanted to make it absolutely clear that Ziggler is worthless, beneath Sheamus, and you should not cheer for him.
    I don't think that has anything to do with it.

    I think there are three possible reasons why this is happening.

    1. What HR said about Lesnar, etc.

    2. They want to make it a "surprise" for when he cashes in at Mania.

    3. They've just lost interest in him... again.

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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by King_Steve View Post
    Why would they do that, though? It doesn't make any sense. Somebody gets over on their own, and the WWE kills it. Don't they want more wrestlers to get over. Money!!
    Because they didn't want Dolph to be over. They wanted Sheamus to be over. They wanted Sheamus to be their new Superface. And here were the fans, cheering for the bad guy, this fucking nobody Dolph Ziggler. And Vince made it his personal mission in life to make sure no one cheered for Ziggler, or booed him, or gave him any reaction at all, ever again.

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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Crippler View Post
    Because they didn't want Dolph to be over. They wanted Sheamus to be over. They wanted Sheamus to be their new Superface. And here were the fans, cheering for the bad guy, this fucking nobody Dolph Ziggler. And Vince made it his personal mission in life to make sure no one cheered for Ziggler, or booed him, or gave him any reaction at all, ever again.
    Not sure i'd go that far, but yeah I think you're on the money about that.

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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    I think that's a lame conspiracy theory. Why would he win Money in the Bank the next month and then feud with (and defeat) Chris Jericho the month after that?

    And then feud with (and defeat) John Cena towards the end of the year?

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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    Cody Rhodes and Dolph Ziggler should have held the World Title by now. It's sad that they haven't. Rhodes has been building himself since late 2010, the start of the disfigured gimmick. Dolph Ziggler has shown that he can hang with the main eventers since 2011 and had all the momentum in the world by the end of 2012 after beating Orton in Survivor Series and Cena in TLC.

    Del Rio vs. Swagger has obviously become about race, and not about the title. Jericho came back to feud with Ziggler again, Ziggler had a briefcase, I guess logic isn't needed.

    I don't see why a briefcase holder can't seem threatening. Have the guy on a winning streak, and threatening about his briefcase. Show a threat, not only on unpredictability, but in head on collision alone. For if the briefcase holder were to cash in on the champion head on, without any interference, both men 100% it would be believable that he could beat him based on credibility alone.
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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ View Post
    I think that's a lame conspiracy theory. Why would he win Money in the Bank the next month and then feud with (and defeat) Chris Jericho the month after that?

    And then feud with (and defeat) John Cena towards the end of the year?
    To keep him from thinking he was being punished. I mean, consider the DOZENS of times he lost on TV last year. And that it didn't seem that an episode of Smackdown went by without him getting kicked in the face by Sheamus? And, Jericho got the big PPV win that people remember. Ziggler just got the TV win because they needed a reason for Jericho to disappear.

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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ View Post
    I think that's a lame conspiracy theory. Why would he win Money in the Bank the next month and then feud with (and defeat) Chris Jericho the month after that?

    And then feud with (and defeat) John Cena towards the end of the year?
    Agreed. I mean, I think it's wrong he's still not where he really should be in terms of a rise. But some of the ideas in this thread just make me shake my head. And I'm a HUGE Dolph supporter.

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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Crippler View Post
    To keep him from thinking he was being punished.
    So then what the fuck is the point of punishing him? And why would they put their most over female act with him?

    This theory has so many holes in it.

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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    I've said it before and I'll say it again... Vince McMahon has become nothing more then a delusional old man who should be forced into retirement.

    Then Dolph Ziggler will get that push he deserves.


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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywolf View Post
    Cody Rhodes and Dolph Ziggler should have held the World Title by now. It's sad that they haven't. Rhodes has been building himself since late 2010, the start of the disfigured gimmick. Dolph Ziggler has shown that he can hang with the main eventers since 2011 and had all the momentum in the world by the end of 2012 after beating Orton in Survivor Series and Cena in TLC.

    Del Rio vs. Swagger has obviously become about race, and not about the title. Jericho came back to feud with Ziggler again, Ziggler had a briefcase, I guess logic isn't needed.

    I don't see why a briefcase holder can't seem threatening. Have the guy on a winning streak, and threatening about his briefcase. Show a threat, not only on unpredictability, but in head on collision alone. For if the briefcase holder were to cash in on the champion head on, without any interference, both men 100% it would be believable that he could beat him based on credibility alone.
    I agree entirely.

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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    This is WWE. I wouldn't put it past them to be petty and to go out of their way to destroy a talent for some stupid reason or other.

    Zack Ryder is the prime example.

    CM Punk, who as soon as Heyman left was jobbed out to the likes of Matt Striker and Hardcore Holly, who lost his ECW Championship opportunity to Johnny Nitro and only won the title because Morrison got suspended, who lost that same ECW Championship to Chavo Guerrero, who was a complete afterthought during his first World Championship reign, who was made into a joke during the Straight Edge Society storyline, who had to threaten to leave the company to get the push he's deserved since 2007, who had to job to a semi-retired Triple H for no reason, is another.

    And let's not forget the shit they pulled with MVP, who was given one of the most face-palmingly bad losing streaks in history to "effect character change" or "prove his loyalty" or whatever BS reason, and who later was white hot as a face when he confronted Orton on Raw but they did nothing with. MVP was right to leave WWE.

    And, of course, Kaval and Daniel Bryan. The other Indy Darlings that WWE punished for being over with the fans before even walking in the door. Funny, you'd think WWE would want to bring in these guys who get massive reactions from smarks ...

    WWE is run by biased idiots with no foresight. And the treatment of Ziggler and Cody Rhodes, the fact that Barrett is an afterthought midcard champion, the fact that it took Kofi Kingston three years to get something even resembling a feud, and the fact that a talentless pretty-boy from Oklahoma is given shot after shot after shot, just further proves it.

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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    Well there were at least reports about them "punishing" all those other people.

    This has come straight out of Crippler's mind with no actual evidence, and in fact, most of the evidence suggests that it's wrong.

    They've done quite a few good things with him since No Way Out.

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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    There are no actual reports regarding WWE punishing Ryder for getting over on his own, I thought. Wasn't that all fan speculation, too? Same goes for Kaval being buried upon winning NXT and Bryan's inability to win a match on NXT. At least with Punk, we knew WWE was punishing him for his Heyman association and just plain didn't like him, although some of the reasons he reportedly ended up "in the doghouse" over the years were downright bull.

    Let's be honest. WWE management behaves in very petty ways that are usually not tied to what we would consider logic. Remember, these are the same people who (reportedly) gave up on Morrison as a main-event talent because he was whipped by his girlfriend, and gave up on McIntyre because his wife physically assaulted him. Sheamus was turned into a joke because Dunn, what, didn't like his pale skin and accent, was it?

    So even if it's just one fan's speculation, it doesn't mean that Dolph's treatment isn't because someone making the calls decided they just don't like him for whatever bullshit reason, and the only reason he gets the occasional bout of greatness (winning MITB, beating Cena) is to build him up to make the eventually crashing-down more satisfying.

    There is no logical benefit to the way they've treated Dolph.

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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by DC View Post
    There are no actual reports regarding WWE punishing Ryder for getting over on his own, I thought. Wasn't that all fan speculation, too? Same goes for Kaval being buried upon winning NXT and Bryan's inability to win a match on NXT. At least with Punk, we knew WWE was punishing him for his Heyman association and just plain didn't like him, although some of the reasons he reportedly ended up "in the doghouse" over the years were downright bull.

    Let's be honest. WWE management behaves in very petty ways that are usually not tied to what we would consider logic. Remember, these are the same people who (reportedly) gave up on Morrison as a main-event talent because he was whipped by his girlfriend, and gave up on McIntyre because his wife physically assaulted him. Sheamus was turned into a joke because Dunn, what, didn't like his pale skin and accent, was it?

    So even if it's just one fan's speculation, it doesn't mean that Dolph's treatment isn't because someone making the calls decided they just don't like him for whatever bullshit reason, and the only reason he gets the occasional bout of greatness (winning MITB, beating Cena) is to build him up to make the eventually crashing-down more satisfying.

    There is no logical benefit to the way they've treated Dolph.
    I have to agree with all of this. WWE has petty individuals in high ranking positions. It's unfortunate. We need to accept the fact that WWE looks down on anyone with an Internet following. What about Dolph Ziggler? WWE can't be deaf. They hear the chants for Dolph Ziggler. They know Ziggler is loved by the internet fans. Because of this he has received up and down booking with no consistency whatsoever. Dolph needs to look at CM Punk. Punk was able to move past the petty bitterness WWE had towards him and has become a main event star in the company. But he didn't do this silently. Dolph needs to get more vocal backstage about the direction of his career. WWE may be a petty company, but if someone is willing to stand up to them they usually give that person the platform to be a huge star. Shawn Michaels and CM Punk did that. Neither of those guys enamored Vince from the beginning -- they had to show Vince they were top level stars despite their lack of size. This is the same thing Ziggler will have to prove and he's been doing for years now. It's up to WWE to set him free.

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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    The whole way wrestling is run backstage is bull. Not just from management but from the wrestlers as well. It's too political and bias, which is a shame because I guarantee they've missed out on something great in the past from their attitudes.

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    Default Re: The Dolph Ziggler Effect

    I think this most recent push (MitB, beating Jericho and Cena) is the real deal for him. He's going to be moved up in the card by winning the WHC and will hopefully be in a prominent position from there on out. I mean, they stuck their most over female performer in AJ with him (she's been in relationships with Bryan, Punk, and Cena, so her being with someone speaks volumes about who they are) and he's always put in prominent matchups on the card (even though he loses he always gets solid minutes for his matches and it's not like he's squaring off with jobbers).

    I think the biggest culprit for why his push seems to have stagnated is Wrestlemania season. With all of these part-timers popping up and maineventing it leaves very little room for the current roster to shine. Think about it. Out of the three biggest matches (Cena-Rock, Taker-Punk, and HHH-Brock) four of the guys are part-timers and the other two are the biggest stars in the company. Then we have the WHC match and all of a sudden the top four matches on the card are booked. The rest of the card is bound to suffer and guys like Dolph Ziggler that are still trying to reach the mountaintop are going to look like they're just floating around. That's why I think Team Hell No has been great for DB, it gives him something to do that isn't irrelevant while all of the part-timers are hogging the spotlight.

    Unlike some though, I don't hate that the part-timers are around. It's awesome to see Rock and Lesnar around, HHH is still great (his promo last night was awesome and combined with their brawl from last week has actually gotten me excited for a match I wasn't looking forward to at all), and Undertaker is a Wrestlemania staple. They make Wrestlemania season feel like the biggest time of the year. But I am hoping that after WM30 that they all start to go away. Undertaker should have his last match with Cena. Rock and Brock should square off. And there's always that Punk-Austin matchup that's rumored (although I won't believe it'll happen until the glass breaks while Punk is in the ring, the rumors really). But after all of that it'll be at the point where there aren't many more "dream match" combinations and they'll really have to start giving other guys a chance at Wrestlemania instead of killing their momentum every year.

    I mean, I love Ziggler but I'd rather see the current star-stacked Wrestlemania card than have him be in one of the main events. I believe he'll have his moment, they wouldn't have him beat Cena, win MitB, and be paired with AJ if he wasn't going to. He's just trapped behind much bigger stars at the moment. I understand that many are worried he'll be perennially stuck in his upper-midcard hell, with WWE's reputation that's a possibility, but with how good this guy is I can't believe that he won't get his just deserts. He really needs a breakout moment though to shoot him to the top like CM Punk had. Maybe cashing in at WM and stealing the show could be his big moment.
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