So what do you guys think actually went down when Ryder was pushed then buried?

[Mercury]

I'm not a big Ryder fan, but I do like the guy for his passion and persistence. I know many of you have/had strong feelings about Ryder and are still sore about his burial. But I'm curious about what the thinking is regarding the all too short Ryder phenomenon. Two questions in particular:

1. Did the WWE punish Ryder for getting over on his own?

2. Was Ryder given the U.S. Championship to satiate fans and quell the "We want Ryder!" chants? Basically, did they toss the title at him just to shut the fans up?

And a third question:

3. Was Ryder put together with Cena to get Cena over with the smark portion of the audience who regularly booed him?

[Justin Valuable]

He got over by using the internet. That simple.

[Todd]

CM Punk was an upper-midcarder before he grabbed a mic and went into a legit shoot on the company, he came out of it twice the star he went in. I don't think the company punish people who get over on their own. I don't buy the internet thing either, this is a company that flashes Twitter all over their programming all the time, has shares in an internet video service, has their own heavily subscribed to YouTube channel, and has its own app.

I'll guess they just didn't like him, Vince got it in his head that he wasn't going to be anything and just wouldn't budge.

[Mercury]

He got over by using the internet. That simple.

Yeah, obviously. But was he punished for getting over using the Internet? Many fans initially felt that way after he was buried, but in retrospect is that still the popular belief?

[Krimzon]

They pushed Ryder and then promptly buried him to squash the groundswell of support he was picking up at record pace. It threw a wrench into their plans and started to disrupt the shows. They had no plans of ever making him more than he was. They syphoned off every bit of popularity he had and made a few bucks doing it.

[arbiter75]

They pushed Ryder and then promptly buried him to squash the groundswell of support he was picking up at record pace. It threw a wrench into their plans and started to disrupt the shows. They had no plans of ever making him more than he was. They syphoned off every bit of popularity he had and made a few bucks doing it.

That is incredibly short-sighted of the WWE (and that's really saying something).

How many stars have been built over unintended fan support? Cena and Batista were midcard jobbers for the first two years of their careers and by 2007 they were the faces of the company. Ryder could've done the same and even could have represented the internet wrestling demographic (which is HUGE). Hell, he could've been the next Cena if they stuck with it.

[Justin Valuable]

WWE screwed Ryder over by not following up on his angle with John Cena and Eve. That was a perfect time to turn Ryder heel, instead they focused their attention on Eve going heel. That made Ryder the target for the turn at WM 28. The last time Ryder was relevant was when he got kicked in the nuts by Eve. He hasn't been able to get off the ground since.

[Crippler]

That is incredibly short-sighted of the WWE (and that's really saying something).

How many stars have been built over unintended fan support? Cena and Batista were midcard jobbers for the first two years of their careers and by 2007 they were the faces of the company. Ryder could've done the same and even could have represented the internet wrestling demographic (which is HUGE). Hell, he could've been the next Cena if they stuck with it.

Ok, I think THAT'S a little extreme.

[The Champ]

WWE screwed Ryder over by not following up on his angle with John Cena and Eve. That was a perfect time to turn Ryder heel, instead they focused their attention on Eve going heel. That made Ryder the target for the turn at WM 28. The last time Ryder was relevant was when he got kicked in the nuts by Eve. He hasn't been able to get off the ground since.

No, Ryder turning heel would have been stupid. He was the one who got fucked over.

They made the right call in turning Eve, the problem was that they completely botched the angle after that.

[L.T.D]

The problem is he is goofy and can't be taken seriously and it's not because of the way WWE has booked him. He was never going to get past the U.S title while running around saying 'Are you serious bro?'. This is coming from someone who actually likes him, he has potential but with his current character I don't see him getting past that.

With characters like that you use it to get over with the fans and then slowly phase that character out and become more serious with some elements of the character still remaining. That hasn't happened with Ryder yet.

Hopefully he becomes a bit more serious himself and can climb up the card. Again, I like the guy but would not be able to take him seriously if he progressed further up the card towards the I.C Title and further. But he still has a lot of potential and I do think he will get there one day.

[Nightwolf]

The problem is he is goofy and can't be taken seriously and it's not because of the way WWE has booked him. He was never going to get past the U.S title while running around saying 'Are you serious bro?'. This is coming from someone who actually likes him, he has potential but with his current character I don't see him getting past that.

With characters like that you use it to get over with the fans and then slowly phase that character out and become more serious with some elements of the character still remaining. That hasn't happened with Ryder yet.

Hopefully he becomes a bit more serious himself and can climb up the card. Again, I like the guy but would not be able to take him seriously if he progressed further up the card towards the I.C Title and further. But he still has a lot of potential and I do think he will get there one day.

You seriously overuse that very serious word that I seriously don't like and is seriously not needed at all, because it's a seriously outdated mindset that has no serious basing beyond "seriously, that's the way it is because it is!".

I mean, seriously! Ryder was seriously getting the reactions and he was seriously moving the merch, there was seriously nothing wrong with his character, if you seriously didn't enjoy his lack of seriousness I get it, seriously, but it doesn't mean it was not working.

SERIOUS EDIT: Turns out Ryder's song, "Hoeski", actually made it to the Top 100 on iTunes.

http://www.wwe.com/shows/raw/2013-02...tunes-26085368

Seriously.

[Djm]

SERIOUS EDIT: Turns out Ryder's song, "Hoeski", actually made it to the Top 100 on iTunes.

And 3MB is going to beat him for not rocking hard enough.

[The Main Event]

Part of me thinks there was a bit of genius in it too.

Part of his rise to fame was because he was always held down...so then he gets held down at his peak...kind of made the fans want him more, so they bought more merch to get him attention.

[Summer of Punk]

No, Ryder turning heel would have been stupid. He was the one who got fucked over.

They made the right call in turning Eve, the problem was that they completely botched the angle after that.

Completely accurate.

Young Champion, delete your PMs.

[x iCame2Play x]

Who the hell knows. I actually like him, but he needs to get rid of the Broski, Hoeski, Woo Woo Woo, Long Island Iced Z crap. He needs a new makeover.

[thedude]

They dropped the ball on him big time. I became a fan because of his show like many others and the only smart move they made with him was too turn him face due to his crowd reactions. He was booked pretty well in the fall of 2011 when he was feuding with Ziggler and actually getting showcased in the mid card. his US title win was one of my favorite moments of 2011 and then 2012 came and he was demolished.

He was made to look like a joke and was oblivious to the fact that Eve didn't give a shit about him and then Kane kicked his ass every week so bad it was almost like a running joke. Then to top it all off he loses the US title only one month after winning it to Jack Swagger. At that point the logical thing to do would be to have him defeat Kane at Wrestlemania which would have been the biggest win of his career. Instead he goes back to Eve like a dumbass and gets kicked in the balls. This effectively killed his momentum and he hasn't been relevant ever since. Stupid ass company.

[Mercury]

Part of me thinks there was a bit of genius in it too.

Part of his rise to fame was because he was always held down...so then he gets held down at his peak...kind of made the fans want him more, so they bought more merch to get him attention.

Maybe, but when they crush his push all together, they are not sustaining the merch sales. The sales might peak briefly, but ultimately they go away with Ryder.

[The Main Event]

Maybe, but when they crush his push all together, they are not sustaining the merch sales. The sales might peak briefly, but ultimately they go away with Ryder.

They probably knew he wouldn't be a long term guy in terms of holding a push, so they peaked the sales while they could. He still sells a good bit.

It was probably a smart business move in the end.

[Dose]

I think that despite the very vocal fans online and in crowds, he wasn't bringing in the numbers they wanted from him (fair or not) he needed to and they dropped him hard and fast.

[Mercury]

I don't know, if anything the guy has charisma and with his character more merch could have been created. I think if he was booked better his merch sales would have stayed high.

[Oncall]

There's one thing that sticks out to me and I know it's a tiny thing but I feel it sums up the very rapid de-push completely. On one of those WWE did you know things they had a list of WWE's top 5 twitter followers just after Ryder passed 1 million followers, Zack was nowhere to be seen on the poll.

[The Champ]

I'm not seeing how burying him was a smart business strategy to sell more t-shirts, TME.

[Falcone]

Vince wanted to push him for merch alone. Kevin F'N Dunn happened.

[L.T.D]

You seriously overuse that very serious word that I seriously don't like and is seriously not needed at all, because it's a seriously outdated mindset that has no serious basing beyond "seriously, that's the way it is because it is!".

I mean, seriously! Ryder was seriously getting the reactions and he was seriously moving the merch, there was seriously nothing wrong with his character, if you seriously didn't enjoy his lack of seriousness I get it, seriously, but it doesn't mean it was not working.

SERIOUS EDIT: Turns out Ryder's song, "Hoeski", actually made it to the Top 100 on iTunes.

http://www.wwe.com/shows/raw/2013-02...tunes-26085368

Seriously.

Well, I guess you had to find something wrong with my post. You disagree with it so rather than tell me you think I'm wrong you have to point out something so stupid as me over using a word? Come on now...If you think I'm wrong then tell me I'm wrong.

I guess you did have to try and make everyone laugh though, seems to be a priority over actually carrying out a decent discussion.

The fact that he isn't a serious character was the main point of my post, I think it's expected that the word would be used a lot. I also used the world 'He' a lot :O

[David*Dream*]

I think it's a case that the right people didn't like him. They used him as a cash cow then tossed him to one side. Far from the right thing to do, but there will always be casualties in business.

Can't say that I totally disagree with what they did either tbh. I really enjoyed Ryder, but I found his character really annoying after a while. Maybe the WWE figured people might feel this way so they made the quick money whilst they could.