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Thread: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

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    Senior Member Vince Mcmahon's Avatar
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    Default The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    Okay, I figured this would be something of discussion on the birth of Hulkamania since I have seen on threads today that John Cena is the Hogan of this era(making corny promos), the Mt Rushmore thread, and the supposedly cartoon era being reincarnated with the PG Era.

    So I ask is John Cena REALLY the new Hulk Hogan?

    Is the PG Era really like the Cartoon Era?

    Was Hogan's era really the cartoon era? (I think in his prime it is arguable as I believe it really started slowly phasing into the product in 1988)

    Hulk Hogan begins new Era in 1984


    The John Cena Era begins at WM 21
    http://youtu.be/vqo4KyC3bw8
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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    While on the subject of Hogan let's be clear: if the IWC was around then it would have stopped Hogan's run long before. Take Wrestlemania V for example. If fans had the capability they have today I'm certain that crowd in Atlantic City would have booed Hogan out of the building in his match against Savage. More importantly it may have caused a change in direction for the WWE in how they viewed the product in relation to the fans.

    To answer your question: Yes. Cena is the new version of Hogan. Cena attracts to kids, he has a super power/defy all odds character, and he has carried the company on his back.

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    Senior Member Vince Mcmahon's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    If the IWC was around then at its current state I agree that Hogan during the Mega Powers angle could have been booed. Hell, I know Savage had his fair of fans even during that time period who favored him over Hogan. The angle in some ways could have been turned to Hogan being the heel easily imo(Hogan's attack on Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels at the end of the Mega Powers Exploding on The Main Event was heel like). You can even listen to Jesse Ventura's commentary and could come away with it with seeing Hogan as a heel in the WM V match.

    I don't think it would have deterred Hogan's second run as WWF Champion though. Hogan was perhaps at the peak of his popularity in 1989 although his drawing power to the arenas was stronger from 84-86.

    The masses still has the strongest say in terms of the direction of the company and Hogan was still the top dog. It is not like the fans of that era did not recognize the talent of the wrestlers regardless of their face or heel status. Randy Savage is a prime example of the fans turning him babyface after WM III without the company actually producing any reason for the change. It was due to the fans seeing Savage defending the way he defended the title against Ricky Steamboat after carrying the belt for 14 months.

    Flair was turned in 1989 for the same kind of reasons, so the fans even then knew who was talented and whatnot. There are similarities to Hulk Hogan in that John Cena attracts kids and overcomes the odds, but that was a company staple that was first done by Bruno Sammartino.

    I actually think there are less similarities between Hogan and Cena than similarities. The Hulkster of his prime is different than Cena imo. The promo styles are different. Hulk Hogan also seemed larger than life compared to John Cena. Going back to Jesse Ventura he would always make comments on how Hogan would do heel things in his matches which the ref and the fans did not give him boos for. Cena is actually more clean cut than Hogan was in terms of straight babyface work in the ring.

    Hulk Hogan also appealed to more than just kids too. He had some of that "ultimate male" aura to him that was visited in the Rocky 3 movie to parts of the male audience. In 1988 after Hogan lost the strap Hogan became more heelish when he feuded with Harley Race(injuring him with a table spot in kayfabe) and started the "Hulk Rules" campaign where he would do whatever it took until he got back his title. We never see John Cena go to those levels when he lost his title.

    I will say though that Hogan started to become a caricature of himself after WM VI and maybe some of that Hogan is what people see in comparison with John Cena.

    Cena imo is different for his polarizing nature. Yes, it has to do with the audiences being spoiled from the Attitude Era anti-heroes too. However, it still doesn't take away Cena's character is different than Hogan's in his prime. Now booking Cena like he is suppose to be the new Hogan is different which is the case that is happening.

    The thing is from the jump I think Cena proclaiming himself to be like the people in the stand(his feud with JBL), but booking him like say Ultimate Warrior or Hogan doesn't really mean he is actually like those two characters. I actually think Cena has actually become more clean cut than those two guys ever were.

    Cena is more like an early 80's Bob Backlund in the new era.
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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    Wrestlemania 3 might have led to huge things for Savage and Steamboat had the IWC been around. from what I understand, they essentually stole the show which did not sit well with Hogan and Andre when they were getting less attention (not sure if from fans or from the boys... I need to rewatch Steamboats doc) than the aforementioned guys.

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    0 days since a Cena fight. C'mon guys we need to at least get it up to two.
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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    VM hit the nail on the head with his last statement, Cena has always been more Backlund than Hogan.

    Cena is too clean cut and it doesn't play well with alot of post Attitude Era fans, and he is more clean cut than Hogan ever was.

    The big difference between them though is that Hogan's main event push was based soely on his ability to connect with the audience universally, and be loved by most.

    Cena got over because of his popularity but was kept on top for alot of reasons not just popularity, because he doesn't have nearly the same kind of support as Hogan did but has been on top for even longer now.

    At least longer than Hogan's run in the 80s which was the most important one.


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    Senior Member Vince Mcmahon's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    It did lead to huge things though. Steamboat was going to get a heavy push as IC Champion. The title in 1987 is nowhere what it is today in comparison. The best comparison would actually be the WHC. Steamboat wanted to take time off.

    The big plans for Savage was him turning babyface and regaining the IC title once Steamboat was out of the picture. He ended up with the bigger prize a year later at WM IV.

    As for Hogan and Andre they accomplished what they set out to do and that was create a magical moment that received tremendous mainstream press. Hogan slamming Andre was on some newspaper covers in North America the day after.

    It was covered on some media outlets like even Entertainment Tonight(that was a given though since Mary was at the event).
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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    Speaking of comparisons with Hogan, I've always said the best way to turn Cena heel is probably by going the Hogan route - wait until his fans get sick of him and start booing him. That will give him the same kind of logic for turning heel that Hogan had - the fans turned on him so he 'turned' on them. Especially after all his constant "Rise Above Hate" stuff.

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    Senior Member Vince Mcmahon's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    Well letting Cena run out of steam completely as a face is an option which is probably the most likely route when he stops being the cash cow. There are problems with this however. It could create a problem that the time that happens the kids and fans of his may have moved on to something else or just don't care. Whereas anytime in the next couple years when he is relevant the heel turn will have an impact if done correctly.

    Again, there are some differences with Hogan turning heel and Cena turning heel(although I agree Cena turning is akin to Hogan for this generation). Hulk Hogan was not as over when he left in 1993 as his hey day of the mid 80's and even had some fans booing him. Also, it should be noted that by that time Hogan was basically on top for 9 years just as Cena is approaching in the main event scene.

    Here are some reasons why I think fans started to really turn on Hogan in the wwf
    1. Steroid and Drug Abuse allegations over his head that helped to damage his hero image
    2. His act was getting stale and the fans were gravitating towards guys like Bret Hart more
    3. Hogan was getting bored and not putting in the same effort which fans also saw

    Then we have to take into account Hulk Hogan in wcw and some reasons why he was getting booed down south

    1. He was the enemy on the turf that Flair made and he went over Flair in his debut right off the top turning some WCW fans on him
    2. There were WWF fans who felt Hogan "sold out" to the enemy
    3. Hogan's act was stale and he never changed which was a problem he had in 1993 wwf

    So during this time the WWF helped to increase fans perception of Hogan being a sell out with the "Huckster" skits. Those skits also gave the impression that Hogan was passed his prime(which he was). This was a double edge sword towards Hogan as both fan bases of the two companies had even more heat added for reason to not cheer Hogan. In the meantime guys like Hall, Nash, HBK, and Hart are promoted as the "New Generation".

    Then Hulk Hogan admittedly said he felt hurt by the "Huckster" skits. Now all of this stuff is not addressed by Hulk Hogan ever since 1993 until.........................



    It was an FU to the fans, wcw, wwf, the suits and a reminder to everyone his position in the history of the business!!!

    If Cena turns heel it is going to be REALLY hard to top something like this which had a lot of realism and emotion to it.

    I know this was mentioned in another thread and differing opinions, but a start for Cena would be taking away the revered WM streak of Taker, but there would be a lot more that would be needed to be done. However, I can that being something similar to Hogan doing the impossible turning on wcw to join the outsiders(although in totality it made complete sense since they came from up North).

    You know that saying first they love then they hate and then love you again. Hulk Hogan is indeed an example of this. He was so loved and his fall was so great that it led to many hating him a whole lot which helped the heel turn be such a huge thing in history.
    Last edited by Vince Mcmahon; 01-23-2013 at 09:31 PM.
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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    Could he turn heel at Wrestlemania 29 against The Rock? I mean, think about it. He called his match with Rock last year the biggest match of his career and said that his career meant nothing if he lost, which he did. He then went on to have the worst year of his career, and he could blame this on losing the match against The Rock, because that's where it began. He then says on the first Raw of 2013 that he intends for this year to be the complete opposite and if he were to win the Rumble, he could have similarities to Austin's heel turn at WM17 (which was also ironically with Rock as well) in the sense that he will do anything to capture the title and hold on to it and remain the top guy. He could say that he wasn't about to lose to the Rock again, because losing the first time was probably the lowest point of his (main event) career. Plus, with it being in New York, which I think is supposed to be a smark heavy city that will boo Cena mercilessly already, it's perfect, even more so than Miami (or at least equally so.)

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    Senior Member Vince Mcmahon's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    Could he be turned heel at WM 29 against Rock? DEFINITELY!!! The elements are certainly there which you have outlined. It may even explain why Cena has downplayed the loss and is doing what he is currently doing as to not telegraph it, but I see Cena with the audience that wants him turning heel not actually cheering him if Rock/Cena II is for the title. The very same "predictability" some in the IWC is proclaiming with this match is reason why seeing Cena win will play into the backlash along with the masses who sides with The Rock.

    The key would be how it is done and the after effects. There are things that could be done, but will the company think of it or want to go there is the bigger question. The problem I see is there not being a proper balance on the face side which was one of the problems with Austin's turn as Rock went away and HHH got injured. Maybe Ryback, but having Ryback go over Cena out the gate with his heel turn is not a good idea. Ryback also needs to be built up more. Ironically CM Punk maybe. HHH could counter it, but he's the same part time boat as The Rock.

    The difference Hogan's heel turn had compare to Austin and a possible Cena turn is that Hogan had the whole of wcw to play off of with babyfaces and just the brand name itself. Hogan vs. wcw/nwa was a dream scenario besides the turn anyways since he was Mr. WWF.
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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Mcmahon View Post
    Could he be turned heel at WM 29 against Rock? DEFINITELY!!! The elements are certainly there which you have outlined. It may even explain why Cena has downplayed the loss and is doing what he is currently doing as to not telegraph it, but I see Cena with the audience that wants him turning heel not actually cheering him if Rock/Cena II is for the title. The very same "predictability" some in the IWC is proclaiming with this match is reason why seeing Cena win will play into the backlash along with the masses who sides with The Rock.

    The key would be how it is done and the after effects. There are things that could be done, but will the company think of it or want to go there is the bigger question. The problem I see is there not being a proper balance on the face side which was one of the problems with Austin's turn as Rock went away and HHH got injured. Maybe Ryback, but having Ryback go over Cena out the gate with his heel turn is not a good idea. Ryback also needs to be built up more. Ironically CM Punk maybe. HHH could counter it, but he's the same part time boat as The Rock.

    The difference Hogan's heel turn had compare to Austin and a possible Cena turn is that Hogan had the whole of wcw to play off of with babyfaces and just the brand name itself. Hogan vs. wcw/nwa was a dream scenario besides the turn anyways since he was Mr. WWF.
    I agree that the reason it probably won't be done is because there isn't enough baby faces perhaps to balance out Cena's heel run. Miz is now face but a terrible one in my view, Del Rio just turned but he's the WHC at the moment, Ziggler is rumored to turn face but the one negative element about him is that he doesn't really excite me on the mic. Not really the kind of guy to go up against Cena in a verbal battle. Ryback/Cena could be a big match later on. In fact, that could be a big thing to get Ryback more over, being the guy to take down Cena (at least the first guy) if Cena becomes really hated. But as you said, he needs to be built up a little more. There's always the possibility that one (or more) members of the Shield becomes a breakout baby face star (doubtful unless it's Rollins, I see Ambrose and Reigns as heels and Amborse as the biggest breakout star of the group.) I guess Show could always turn face and do a couple months with Cena, Triple H could do a one-time thing, etc.

    I think it's still very workable were it to happen at WM29.

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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    If Cena should have been turned heel already, he WOULD have. CM Punk was ready to be the top face to Cena's foil. I would have had Punk be built as the man to face Rock as a face and then two weeks before, Cena cashes in and beats Punk through underhanded tactics. Cena would basically cut the I'm tired of being the company man and getting nothing but shit for it, the fans can stick it promo that Hogan did.

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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    If the IWC were around back then, would Hogan have been booed more? No. Why? Because they state of wrestling hadn't changed yet. The fans in the IWC would be completely different than they'd be today. It wouldn't be fair to put today's fans back in the past like that. Almost EVERYTHING back then would be hated if you did that.


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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    Quote Originally Posted by MKPunk View Post
    If Cena should have been turned heel already, he WOULD have. CM Punk was ready to be the top face to Cena's foil. I would have had Punk be built as the man to face Rock as a face and then two weeks before, Cena cashes in and beats Punk through underhanded tactics. Cena would basically cut the I'm tired of being the company man and getting nothing but shit for it, the fans can stick it promo that Hogan did.

    You see the problem I see in that scenario of Cena turning heel on Punk is that it needs to be something bigger than that. It has to be something the fans hold dearly. The Rock and UT are two great catalysts with the current fans and the long term fans who are really the ones who are divisive on Cena.

    I don't think Cena just telling fans to stick it alone would work to the degree of someone who is the face of the company for this generation should. I know some don't see Rock or UT as catalysts and that it would just blow over after a month, but for this to work to its best capabilities the total audience the company has attained over the decades has to be invested in this. That was a key element to Hogan's turn. It wasn't just wcw fans who got attracted to the heel turn. It was all those fans Hogan had gained over the years that had also returned. The fans of Ric Flair, Sting, and the 4 Horsemen of wcw. The fans of the NWA/WCW. The fans who also hated Hogan and the wwf for what they represented and did to the business. It has to be transcending.

    I'm saying this because if it isn't done big it will look inferior to Hogan's heel turn which everyone seems to believe Cena turning is comparable to Hogan turning heel. However, if one really looks at the elements of Hogan's heel turn they would see there was a lot of layers to it that the company couldn't even construct. It was just the reality of the situation that had built up over the years.

    The Rock represents the Attitude Era and The Undertaker represents even before that. Those two guys are larger than life and is what some people feel is the pure wwe superstar in terms of star appeal and representation. Cena obviously is a divisive individual to a lot of fans who feel he isn't the essential star that represents the company like past stars.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krimzon View Post
    If the IWC were around back then, would Hogan have been booed more? No. Why? Because they state of wrestling hadn't changed yet. The fans in the IWC would be completely different than they'd be today. It wouldn't be fair to put today's fans back in the past like that. Almost EVERYTHING back then would be hated if you did that.
    You see if we take it back even before the suggested 1989 it gets even more unlikely. Hulk Hogan wasn't a guy that was manufactured for people to cheer for. The fans started cheering for Hogan and wanted him to be champion from his AWA days. Hogan as I said seemed larger than life. He had an appeal just like Andre The Giant for being larger than life. There were dirtsheets back then too.

    I see what you are saying because once the fans started to get tired of Hogan the people stopped caring completely or not as much or just stopped watching. This happened after Hogan's prime anyways. It's like The Rock today with the IWC with a lot of fans not liking him for whatever reason such as his catchphrases and whatnot being stale to them. This doesn't change the opinion of the millions of other fans who still sing along with the people's champion.
    Last edited by Vince Mcmahon; 01-23-2013 at 11:40 PM.
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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    I don't see why having him cash in and cheat against Punk would have been a bad idea. Young kids also liked Punk. I can't tell you how many little Jimmies actually had Punk gear at US Air for Money in the Bank but there were enough kids. And if they didn't have Cena to fight for the dollar, there would be more.

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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    Not saying it's a bad idea. Just saying it would not garner the heel heat that is expected that would turn the business upside down with the biggest star of the generation.
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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    Quote Originally Posted by KLockard23 View Post
    Could he turn heel at Wrestlemania 29 against The Rock? I mean, think about it. He called his match with Rock last year the biggest match of his career and said that his career meant nothing if he lost, which he did. He then went on to have the worst year of his career, and he could blame this on losing the match against The Rock, because that's where it began. He then says on the first Raw of 2013 that he intends for this year to be the complete opposite and if he were to win the Rumble, he could have similarities to Austin's heel turn at WM17 (which was also ironically with Rock as well) in the sense that he will do anything to capture the title and hold on to it and remain the top guy. He could say that he wasn't about to lose to the Rock again, because losing the first time was probably the lowest point of his (main event) career. Plus, with it being in New York, which I think is supposed to be a smark heavy city that will boo Cena mercilessly already, it's perfect, even more so than Miami (or at least equally so.)
    Great post. This is why WWE should turn him heel. WWE has had many chances but the best time to turn him heel is now. To turn heel one needs someone just as big of a face to turn on. The Rock is the perfect candidate. MY only question is if WWE would want to turn Cena heel at WM or going into WM. I would say turning him heel going into the big event is better. It will be better for the build, ratings, and the overall event.

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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    I don't really see the Backlund comparison, Backlund was an extremely straight laced character who spoke very monotone during his chief run in the spotlight, which is what I'd consider the antithesis of Cena's character.

    John is more like Sting if anything. A fiercely loyal company man with a tremendous physique, a dab of charisma but has the habit of falling victim to some very goofy moments.
    Last edited by Big Pete; 01-24-2013 at 11:06 AM.

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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Valuable View Post
    Great post. This is why WWE should turn him heel. WWE has had many chances but the best time to turn him heel is now. To turn heel one needs someone just as big of a face to turn on. The Rock is the perfect candidate. MY only question is if WWE would want to turn Cena heel at WM or going into WM. I would say turning him heel going into the big event is better. It will be better for the build, ratings, and the overall event.
    I think turning him heel heading into the event is better too. However, what would be the catalyst? There needs to be pinpoint of the turn which is important. The other flip side is turning heel on Rock at WrestleMania and in the road to Mania just become more heelish as the weeks go by. The aftermath though is also important.
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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    I think the heel turn would be more memorable if it happened at the event. People go in expecting the predictable Cena title win but end up shocked when they get a complete turn in character. Plus, Cena winning the belt from Rock by turning heel on him singles it out more as a Wrestlemania moment. I dunno, maybe it would work better though if Cena went into the event as a heel. Would make the build up a lot different than last year and not just the more of the same.

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    Senior Member Vince Mcmahon's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    Cena's an interesting case because he turns 36 this year. People were having HHH's head for passing the torch at this age in 2005 which he did to Batista and then Cena the year after at Mania. When Hogan was 36-37 he passed the torch to Ultimate Warrior to lead the 90's. However, at this year's Mania we are highly likely to see The Rock (who is not much older than Cena himself) and John Cena battling for the title. I know age is not indicative of ability, but it's just ironic those who came before Cena who had less time on top were getting asked to pass the torch, while Cena is still on top without any major character changes.
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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Mcmahon View Post
    Cena's an interesting case because he turns 36 this year. People were having HHH's head for passing the torch at this age in 2005 which he did to Batista and then Cena the year after at Mania. When Hogan was 36-37 he passed the torch to Ultimate Warrior to lead the 90's. However, at this year's Mania we are highly likely to see The Rock (who is not much older than Cena himself) and John Cena battling for the title. I know age is not indicative of ability, but it's just ironic those who came before Cena who had less time on top were getting asked to pass the torch, while Cena is still on top without any major character changes.
    Cena was also directly made in WWE. Cena was around UPW and then OVW for about a year each. Cena was much younger when he first debuted in WWE than Hogan was in the WWF for his post-Rocky 3 return. Cena has only "passed the torch" to Punk and similar to Warrior, some would point to the fact ratings went down as to Punk has failed. The Batista and Cena torch worked out for some time. The issue is that the WWE has not built anyone to be the guy and no-one has stepped up to be the guy other than Punk.

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    Senior Member Vince Mcmahon's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    I never looked it like that with Cena passing it to Punk, but thinking about it since the pipebomb yeah Punk has been given the ball. He just has the problem that Warrior had in some ways that Hogan never really left. With that said having Hogan or Cena disappear completely wouldn't be too wise.

    As for the company not building anyone up has to do with complacency with being happy with Cena and not caring about getting someone to that level. The situation with HHH is that HHH flopped as a babyface and was stronger as a heel. A heel can only dominant for so long without pissing away the audience. HHH pretty much was red hot as a heel in 2000 and with the exception of being a babyface champ for a cup of tea ran the competition and league as heel. The company had no face as Lesnar failed as a babyface champion too. Rock and Austin were no longer viable.

    The company needed a babyface for merchandise and marketing as tradition and went with Cena and hasn't looked back or forward to someone else. Right now I don't see any replacement and the company might as well push him hard until the wheels fall off.
    Who is the boss? Who made wrestling? Who is sports entertainment?

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  24. #24
    Senior Member MKPunk's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Mcmahon View Post
    I never looked it like that with Cena passing it to Punk, but thinking about it since the pipebomb yeah Punk has been given the ball. He just has the problem that Warrior had in some ways that Hogan never really left. With that said having Hogan or Cena disappear completely wouldn't be too wise.

    As for the company not building anyone up has to do with complacency with being happy with Cena and not caring about getting someone to that level. The situation with HHH is that HHH flopped as a babyface and was stronger as a heel. A heel can only dominant for so long without pissing away the audience. HHH pretty much was red hot as a heel in 2000 and with the exception of being a babyface champ for a cup of tea ran the competition and league as heel. The company had no face as Lesnar failed as a babyface champion too. Rock and Austin were no longer viable.

    The company needed a babyface for merchandise and marketing as tradition and went with Cena and hasn't looked back or forward to someone else. Right now I don't see any replacement and the company might as well push him hard until the wheels fall off.
    The issue is what we went from to where we are now. In 1998, 1999 and 2000 you had many people who could be slotted in for main events. You had Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker, Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Kane, The Rock, Triple H, The Big Show, Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle, Rikishi, Chris Jericho and Booker T who all had main evented pay-per view and were over enough to. There were more than enough guys to fit in a chamber and look legit it. Now we have so few stars that when it comes to doing the two elimination chambers we are spreading the talent thin and putting guys like Santino Marella who has no business in the match in.

    Part of the reason, at that point, everyone was equally protected. Heels showed their asses, faces were truly in peril and anyone can beat anyone. Now anyone could be anyone except if face John Cena. Cena can't even lose clean to CM Punk now. Back in the attitude era, Austin and Rock lost clean at times and weren't superman. The superman appeal only works for so long before fans stop buying it. My cousin, my brother and I were ALL Cena fans back 05 by 06 we were sour on him. Why, because we all knew Cena would pull it out somehow. Now because of the Cena can't lose logic, no one is a star because the only way he loses is screw-jobs that keep him over and put the other guy not on his level. Sheamus at TLC 09, Barrett at Hell in a Cell 10, Miz at Mania 27, Punk at Survivor Series 12.

    Compare the protection of Cena to Hogan and besides maybe Macho and Warrior, it is the same story. Guy is built up strong for a run against Hogan on the house shows, possibly on a SNME or MAYBE a pay-per view, then lose and get shuffled around. For Cena, this is the same story except WWE does not realize that the story is not fresh nor captivating. The kids eat it up but eventually they wont and want the Bret Hart style guy (I guess Kofi is the closest to that today) and the Shawn Michaels (defiantly Dolph Ziggler) to step up and lead the WWE into the next era.

    The issue is WWE does not protect them so when they get the opportunity like Kofi did, fans don't believe it. They need to rebuild them while in the attitude era they would put up a good showing again and everyone bought into the fact that they were ready.

    I am not saying we need the attitude era and go back to PG, I am just saying we need the equal level of the top card/upper midcard guys that there was during that era. Right now, I don't see it at all.
    Last edited by MKPunk; 01-24-2013 at 11:53 PM.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Vince Mcmahon's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Birth of Hulkamania and its Era vs. John Cena's Era

    The thing with John Cena in 05-07 I actually understood why he was booked the way he was. He was getting crazy heat. It's funny you say you soured on him after a bit during that time as I think the mistake that was made was just keeping Cena in a position to where fans just accepted him because he wasn't going anywhere. This just caused apathy afterwards imo, while the company had a hot iron. It worked somewhat as some of his critics stop being so hard on him, but it caused some apathy. Not to mention the reasons why people were getting behind Cena was also disappearing in the character.

    I think what the biggest problem is more than anything with Cena only losing by screwjobs is that there was no equal booked like him. You brought up Hogan and Savage as I will use them as an example. Savage was a dominant IC champion in the same time that Hogan was a dominant WWF Champion. So when they two ended up in a WM main event 3 years later fans saw them as viable threats to each other. CM Punk is actually a good foil, but he was undercut by being underneath Cena in ppv main events. This is why I say the WHC is not really doing what it should be doing. When Cena faced Punk at SummerSlam the first time fans believed them to be equal(two champions). It has still followed their psyche even until a few months back. This is good.

    Austin had Rock in the Attitude Era. Hogan in the 80's did have his flavor of the months, BUT he also had his share of contenders fans believed were a threat like Bundy (on ppv AND SNME), Andre The Giant(you see what I mean by having other people built up as unbeatable just like Hogan?), Savage, and Ultimate Warrior who ended up beating him. When HHH had his reign of terror he had the same problem as Cena as no one was built up to his level. You need a foil. HHH in 2000 had foils, but it was different as he was the one trying to prove himself to the mighty main event scene conquering through. His foil was actually Brock Lesnar over on Smackdown post WM 18, but the match never materialized.

    It wouldn't be until Goldberg fans believed someone could legitimately dethrone him as Goldberg was built in from his wcw fame(Goldberg should have ended the reign at SummerSlam when the crowd was ready and hot for it and it reminds me of this Sunday's situation with Rock and Punk where I also believe having Punk going over just to lose at Elimination Chamber will hurt people's attention span and excitement putting off another month just because). The reason I say Cena is not really Hogan as some like to say he is of this generation is that the story of Hogan being superman was actually WANTED from the masses which the boss capitalized on. Cena is a different story he wasn't getting cheered initially for being superman. That's the difference. The fans were loving his edgy nature and trash talking.

    The irony of Cena is that in some ways he is like Rock and pitting the two against each other is possibly subconscious. The heat Cena was getting in 05 and 06 was similar to the heat Rock was getting in his initial days when he was crowned IC Champion and fans believing he was getting things before his time(kayfabe or from smark perspective because he was a 3rd generation star and even sotryline wise you can see he was given stuff on a sliver platter because of being a "blue chipper"). That is the difference with say comparing the superman status of Cena to Hogan or Warrior. The fans bought them in their position and actually were reason for the push. It seemed to be the opposite with Cena, but I did agree with his push because it was getting him extremely over. I just disagreed with not flipping it eventually by 08-09 instead he got watered down.
    Who is the boss? Who made wrestling? Who is sports entertainment?

    WRESTLEMANIA 4 LIFE~~

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