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Thread: End of an era?

  1. #1
    Prediction king! Westy316's Avatar
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    Default End of an era?

    I think this was brought up very well in one of the columns recently but I'd like to know what people's thoughts are.

    Lately I have noticed to some of the matches and angles especially in the final hour of raw has been getting a bit edgier. Could we be seeing the decline and the curtain coming down on the "pg era"? Now from what little I know and with a lot of assumption the "pg era" has a lot to do with Linda's run for the senate as the product has to be seen as towing the line.

    And as a Brit I could give a toss about Linda and her political ambitions I just want a good product.

    So the real question is: Has Vincent had enough is going to take the wwe to a slightly edgier place to boost ratings?

    *just as a proviso this is not an opportunity for you guys to come out and say how much you loved the attitude era and how we should return to that. So don't mention the attitude era thank you *

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    Default Re: End of an era?

    Is edgier a good product though? As you said this isnt meant for nostalgia to rear its ugly head again and again in favor of the attitude era. But a lot of people do think that is a good product. But to me whether it is edgy or not has no bearing on whether it is a good product. It all rests on the wrestlers and the story they are capable of telling at the time.

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    Prediction king! Westy316's Avatar
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    Default Re: End of an era?

    I get what your saying but with trying to keep everything pg it does tie the hands of the writers and the wrestlers to some extent. Relaxing the guidelines and allowing more hardcore matches and edgier story lines gives them more scope surely doesn't it?

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    Default Re: End of an era?

    To an extent, but what could they do that hasnt already been done?

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    Prediction king! Westy316's Avatar
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    Default Re: End of an era?

    Well if I knew that I'd be the next head writer of raw ha ha ha ha

    But with that said, it's just about entertainment, you know, things like table matches ladder matches on tv not just ppv etc things like that. Plus it's not always about doing new thing as we all know wrestling is cyclical so it's a case of reusing old storied with a new slant. The best example is Kane and Bryan the dysfunctional tag team has been done to death or so we thought.

    Another thing is I always enjoyed the hardcore title on tv and the 24hr defence always gave something for those guys at the lower end to get a bit of tv time without too much effort being put into story lines and time spent on matches.

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    Default Re: End of an era?

    I will admit there are certain things that can be added to make it better at a given moment but not necessarily to the overall product. Like one of my favorite matches for the longest time and probably favorite (free) ladder match was Hardy vs Taker for the world title. But ultimately it was the story telling they did and the respect given at the end that made it so enjoyable the ladder was just an added bonus.

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    Default Re: End of an era?

    I would love an edgier RAW instead of some of the PG-13 stuff we get, WWE is for adults too and we deserve a little edgyness every now and then, when I was a kid I grew up with a WWE/F which wasn't PG-13 and I loved it that way...least it's not like SMS which is just a slap in the face to wrestling, I know thats proper aimed at kids but no head shots...whats up with that?!?
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    Default Re: End of an era?

    Actually, you didn't grow up with the WWE not being PG-13. The highest rating it ever got to was pg-13, and right now, it's PG. You can actually do a heel of a lot of things even under both. And SMS being a slap in the face of wrestling? You do realize that WWE has not existed for just the past 15 or so years right? Before the New Generation and the Attitude Era, the WWE was really a kids show. Hell there was a cartoon show. I have been busy so I haven't been able to catch it, but from what I've heard, its actually been pretty good. And if the wrestlers are any good, they should be able to tell a convincing story of good guy vs bad guy to kids without touching the head and neck.

    That said, it is all about the storytelling, both wrestling and promos. I'm not sure if I would call the product edgier. I would say that over the last several months, the overall storytelling has just gotten so much better. Sure, there are segments that don't work. And sure, some people might not like all that WWE is putting out. But it's better than we have gotten before.

    Punk and Cena have really been allowed to let loose on the mic. Punk isn't all about comedy, which while he is good at it, the fans really had gotten tired of it/saw him becoming a copy of Cena. With the longer time, the matches have been allowed to get so much better. TGD Ryback, a throwback to Goldberg and Warrior, has been pushed to the moon. Bryan and Kane have been into the most interesting tag team angle in the longest time and have been allowed to get massively over and the WWE took advantage of that (the Yes, No, and I am the tag team champions shirts being put out almost immediately after the crowd got into them). AJ has been gold as the GM and has an acting range that is rare in wrestling. Brock and Heyman. Ziggler being allowed to get over and not be relegated to matches with Kofi. Going back a little farther, you had the programs between Punk and Jericho, the good stuff between Rock and Cena (cuz there was a lot of bad there too), and the one that made the ICW go batshit- Bryan and Punk.

    I could go on, but the point is that the WWE is allowing people to be freer, both in creative and the wrestlers. This freedom is what you're seeing, not edginess. And I for one have not been this excited every week in a very long time. I can't wait for the next weeks episode, and I can't stop dreaming stuff up for when Rock comes back, when Brock comes back, when Taker comes back, if the every single week mentions of Austin are going to mean anything (or if they are just being done to promote WWE 13). The "Road to Wrestlemania" is going to be absolutely insane.

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    COYG Todd's Avatar
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    Default Re: End of an era?

    It's a middle ground. Rather than being 'suitable to kids' like the few years, or 'cool to adults' in the Attitude era, they are going the route of 'cool to kids'. It means the odd swear word, the odd crazy match, the odd bit of blood, not enough of a regular occurrence to stop parents letting their kids watch WWE, but enough to keep the product as 'cool' as possible.

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    Default Re: End of an era?

    I have to thank The Rock and Brock Lesnar. Their returns resulted in a better product while they were around.
    It's showtime, folks!

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    Default Re: End of an era?

    Last night was a great representation of the middle middle ground that Todd alluded to. There was no need for over the top profanity or suggestive themes to get everyone going. The tv definitely didn't do the crowd justice.
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  12. #12
    MO to the G to the UNS! BadNewsFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: End of an era?

    More than edgier programing I think most people around here miss the one thing that REALLY made the Attitude Era great and that was the anything can happen feel of the show.

    There isn't as much of a need for blood or a ton of profanity if WWE feels like a wild and chaotic place where anything goes.

    That's what the best parts of this past Raw was, the Punk/Vince slap promo, and then the wild match where Cena and Ryback came out, and little things like Kofi's brawl with Miz and so on.

    More things like that need to happen more often to make the show as fun as it used to be.

    Wrestling shouldn't be such a formula tic show...it should be chaos, all the time!

  13. #13
    Prediction king! Westy316's Avatar
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    Default Re: End of an era?

    So on that note do we think a couple of feuding stables would add the chaos that we desire?

  14. #14
    MO to the G to the UNS! BadNewsFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: End of an era?

    No it doesn't necessarily need to be feuding factions, but if that helps than why not?

    It just needs to feel like anything can happen in the WWE again, and it hasn't felt that way in a long time and that's why I think many people have lost interest.

    Yes stars need to be built and and story lines need to be better written, but most importantly it needs to be exciting TV again, and chaos is exciting.

  15. #15
    Bad Mamma Jamma MeanStreetMark's Avatar
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    Default Re: End of an era?

    I think emvammi got it spot on. What made the Attitude Era in my mind was the freedom allowed to the wrestlers. After the Montreal Fiasco, Steve Austin was allowed to go out and be Stone Cold, Rocky Maivia was allowed to go out and be The Rock, Mankind started being just Mick Foley regardless of the over the top gimmick. Obviously aspects of Stone Cold and Foley were there before but the immediate aftermath of Survivor Series 1997 was Vince no longer "insulting the fans intelligence". Workers were free to go out and be themselves and it worked.

    One thing I don't want to see return would be the abundance of gimmick and hardcore matches. As much as fun as I used to find them they led to shortened careers of some of the biggest names. Steve Austin lost first one knee and then the other, Mick Foley was effectively retired by 34, Edge by 37 because that's what taking huge bumps almost weekly on free TV will do to you.

    Credit to Cabanarama for the thing

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    Default Re: End of an era?

    Of course, there is still a major difference between the "PG" era and the previous eras. The fans almost dictated the show. Or were at least listened to. Things weren't shoved down their throat and they were expected to like it. If they turned on a guy or got behind a guy, creative went with it. They booed Rock and he went heel. They got behind Austin after KotR (going by history on DVD) and they pushed him to the moon and kept his character. They hated Vince and he became the greatest heel ever.
    The PG era is the exact opposite. If the fans boo or cheer almost anybody, with the exception of very few, it doesn't matter. For two nights, Santino was among the most over guys in the company. Ryder got chants during a Rock promo. Ziggler for the last several weeks has been getting chants. Wade Barrett was getting Nexus chants. And of course, Cena has stayed face and the same character for years.
    Until that changes, I think its safe to say the "PG" era is still here.

    As to stables...No I don't think its necessary. Sure it'd be cool, but you don't need them to get the desired effect of unpredicatablity. You just have to allow things to happen. Run ins work really really well for this. Its not a coincidence that there were all kinds of run ins during previous eras and that anything can happen feeling existed. They play it to safe now. They need to take way more risks.

  17. #17
    We the People's Champion The Champ's Avatar
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    Default Re: End of an era?

    Quote Originally Posted by BadNewsFan View Post
    More than edgier programing I think most people around here miss the one thing that REALLY made the Attitude Era great and that was the anything can happen feel of the show.

    There isn't as much of a need for blood or a ton of profanity if WWE feels like a wild and chaotic place where anything goes.

    That's what the best parts of this past Raw was, the Punk/Vince slap promo, and then the wild match where Cena and Ryback came out, and little things like Kofi's brawl with Miz and so on.

    More things like that need to happen more often to make the show as fun as it used to be.

    Wrestling shouldn't be such a formula tic show...it should be chaos, all the time!
    I have no problem with any of this.

    I think you can recreate that feel without going over the top so much that the rating needs to be changed back.

    Actually, I don't think. I know, because they've proven it several times over the course of the four years that the rating has been in effect.

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  18. #18
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    Default Re: End of an era?

    Attitude Era had kids and adults both. They had something for everyone. You don't gotta replicate the exact thing, but finding a product that everybody likes is the key to huge success. But let's face it, without competition Vince would rather do just enough to get by. He's been resting on his laurels for ten years. The last time he tried edgy it was Katie Vick and that was way too far out.

  19. #19

    Default Re: End of an era?

    I think wrestling now, is kind of boring. I haven't watched it that much, but do catch Raw here and there. I just wish there were more gimmicks in wrestling again. Not in the vein of Doink or god forbid The Gobbledy Gooker, but now everyone has two names. No one really stands out to me, besides Cena, Punk and Seamus. There's no one that brings any heat any more either. Before in the attitude era, you could catch heat from a lot, and they did that pushing the envelope. Now without pushing it, there's not too many people who can walk into a room and just get hated for it. I haven't seen too many people good on the mic lately either, which goes back to the trying to get heat thing. The Miz might be the closest to that. For someone raised on the attitude era, this pg stuff is dull.

  20. #20
    Bad Mamma Jamma MeanStreetMark's Avatar
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    Default Re: End of an era?

    The biggest cause for the influx of generic wrestler names was NXT. The first season especially which gave Raw eight new wrestlers whos only gimmick was that of NXT contestant. Ever since Nexus split they've all been kind of floating around pretty much gimickless, except David Otunga.

    Credit to Cabanarama for the thing

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    Default Re: End of an era?

    Quote Originally Posted by MeanStreetMark View Post
    The biggest cause for the influx of generic wrestler names was NXT. The first season especially which gave Raw eight new wrestlers whos only gimmick was that of NXT contestant. Ever since Nexus split they've all been kind of floating around pretty much gimickless, except David Otunga.
    Heath Slater: Annoying South-Rocker.
    Darren Young: One half of the Primetime Players.
    David Otunga: Ace Attorney.
    Wade Barrett: Gun for Hire.
    Skip Sheffield: Ryback.
    Daniel Bryan: Do I really have to explain it?


    The only one you have a case for is Justin Gabriel.
    That's all, folks.

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